Or Strictly half the viewers. What's the betting the viewing figures will spike this weekend for those who haven't watched before tuning in to see what all the fuss is about?

I agree with this. It all depends on the "how" of their previous dance training i.e. how it's presented, how they deal with the knowledge of it, how they translate it onto the dance floor.
Some do better than others.

Yes .. but it's all coming from the same people. The exact people who moaned about Pixie and Caroline last year (the ones who could never find it in their heart to vote for a 'trained dancer') are now whinging about Jay. I recognize the same names coming up.

I really resent the fact that people are implying that Jay fans have double standards .. without stopping to think that it's probably the same people moaning every year by and large.

It's a popularity contest as much as anything. That's the real argument (if there has to be one) .. why didn't people warm to Pixie or Natalie as much as they did Caroline etc? I liked Pixie .. was gutted when she went out but I just couldn't warm to Natalie and couldn't stick Denise (VO) at any price. That's when the vote collapses .. not because of shouts of 'ringer' but because the viewer doesn't like a person or partnership well enough to pick up the phone and vote. Caroline winning proved that most people don't give a stuff about previous dance training.

Not complaining about Jay but I am wondering if he has attended College on a Performing Arts diploma or similar.

I admit there are some double standards . I really think that MOST people are not giving too much of a hard time as they did to Natalie, Pixie, Denise because Jay is extremely relatable and likable....that's the gist of it. He is just so likable....its like you just want to pinch his cheeks and put him in your pocket, you feel like you want to protect him, he is just so lovely/adorable/cute....this may sound silly but it's true....so likability trumps over " the ringer talk "



I didnt warm up to Denise and Natalie; I initially didnt warm up to Pixie but I eventually did and I could see why she had so many detractors despite being lovely....they just didnt come across too well. Too over competitive, boring, not too much connection with their partners, too media trained.......

However Kara and Alesha who had some dance experience I believe (someone correct me If Im wrong ) , didnt get the same amount of " bashing " that Denise, Natalie, Pixie got....because they came across so well : likable, cute, funny.....I dont know they are some traits that the public dont like to see with some very competent women celebrities....

Dont know if I made sense ....I feel like my explanation was all over the place

Like most faults, people are generally more forgiving towards them in men than they are in women.

Very simple OP . He plays the little boy lost role to perfection and the ladies find this irresistable .

I loved DVO, Kara, and Natalie G, and I love Jay. I don't care who's had dance training and who hasn't, irrespective of whether they're male or female.

Yes I agree with this! I think a reasonable and fair solution would be as soon as a celeb with zero dance training signs up they should be put in basic dance (not latin and ballroom) classes before the show starts. So they can catch up a bit to those with some experience. Also relieve some of the pressure of the pro dancers.

Why do loads of blokes like him as well then or are you assuming they're all gay and want to "mother" him as well?

He has an appealing personality, his Twitter feed is amusing and he presents himself well on TV not a great surprise the fact he can also dance is drawing in the fans.

Natalie Gumede also had a wonderful personality but was crucified on here for her previous dance training .

I liked all the good dancer, including Jay, but it's the double standards I abhor .

Jay attended a normal comprehensive school in Mansfield until he was 16, then he went to MADD. Not saying he didn't do after school or Saturday classes for years, but it wasn't full time. After MADD he was in a boy band for the last few years, not dancing in the West End.

(MADD is for musical theatre - singing, dancing and acting - and you can't go until you are 16.)

Think the difference is that Denise and Natalie had done more professional dancing work.

In my opinion, for what it is worth, they came across as too 'show businessy' in what is just a Saturday night entertainment show (though a very, very good one )

I feel a little bit like SCD has been just a 'bit' disingenuous with how it has presented certain people, I am thinking specifically of judges comments because I am prepared to bet the majority if not the vast majority of viewers don't visit the BBC site or the forums here, and would have no idea about Jay's 'past' unless the tabloids run with it, as some of them have.

Back to how they are presented on SCD. I think it was out of the gates on week 1 that the panel mentioned about Helen's (as an example) ballet training past, and it's plain she's done a lot. Whether it'll do her any good on this show is yet to be seen, but, it's out there, it's mentioned on the main show, we can see why she's stiff on some steps, she can't bend and flex very well yet etc etc. OK. Then we have Jay. I have barely heard of the Wanted, don't know him, and all I knew of him is that he's a boybander. I do not think (I can be corrected) at any time or after the waltz on week 2, after those exceptional spins for a man if any of the panel said anything as in 'oh well, I can see the time you spent at your dance school has been time well spent.' Just something,anything, because what they have conveyed consciously or unconsciously is that he is a huge wellspring of untapped natural talent that was never discovered or did anything dancy until SCD gave him the opportunity. That's what bugs me slightly, not him having training, because 60/70% of people on there have done something, but I do think the panel is coming across a bit 'drop dead I am so amazed that this boy is so good,' and it's....disingenuous.

I understand what you're saying, but as far as I can remember Helen's previous training has been used to excuse poor technique (feet turned out; doesn't get down into her hips) and has never been mentioned to compliment the many good things about her dancing. BTW, I have no problem with her previous; I just like to see good dancing and she's providing some.

What is double standards in this case?
Is it the same people who attacked Natalie for being a ringer and now are defending Jay? Is that it?

Most people here are defending Jay because simply enjoy his dancing and/or like him.

Everyone has got wonderful personalities, but not everyone can real ate or warm thorough tv to them. With Natalie (and others like her) many people didn't get her.
And that is why she didn't win, not because she was a ringer, because in the past ringers have won too but they were connected better with viewers at home. Caroline and Pixie case in point.

Do you have a link to that interview please?

I've searched under a wide selection of the terms you used, but haven't found any interview with his mum which runs along those line.

The only 'interview' I found was in a local press article - and it recounted how Jay's mum was 'urging/hoping' the local community would get behind him and support a local boy.

It reminds me of my fruitless search to find an article which corroborated the claims made about Jamelia on this forum too. A story about her giving up a dog.

Mind you, I can't even find that post on the forum now either! I have seen others reference it, however - which means that i) it existed ii) it appears to be influencing people's views. Even though it was never corroborated.

That said, it does look as if posts are disappearing from DS. I can't find the post about Jamelia and the dog; I can only find 2 of the 33 posts your post count tells me you have made; and a number of posts have disappeared from the discussion on another programme I've been following.

So, it would be very helpful to have a link to the interview you have cited. For corroboration of the claim, and as a resource if these posts also disappear from DS.

And your post encapsulates my problem really (not that I think there's anything wrong with the way you feel), He's being criticised for something he can't control or do anything about, he's been honest on the entry video and on the BBC bio, that's as much as he can control. Your problem is really with the producers and the show and the way they deal with experience.

Someone's experience or training has had no influence on whether I supported someone or not. I didn't like Denise or Lisa Snowdon who have had training but I didn't like Dom Littlewood or Jan Ravens either and they had none.

I like who I like and during each season it's been for all sorts of different reasons.

!!!!!!!!!!!

For me, Natalie's problem was her partnership with Artem not her previous training. I thought she came across really well in the interviews but the VTs and her performances with Anton seemed (for me) utterly lacking in emotion or connection something which really surprised me with her background.
There were only a couple of her dances where I actually felt connected through her emotions to the dance she was performing - the rumba, the VW and her Charleston. Everything else left me cold.

They are just people we don't know who are on a tv show for whatever reasons they want to be. We like some for different reasons be it dance or personality or something else. Same reasons we 'dislike' others. Don't know yet if I will come on this forum next year. So much 'hate' for people we don't even know. Likewise for the 'adorers'. I'm very tired of the same old stuff. And yes I'll get comments of 'if you don't like etc etc'.

Generally speaking for me, it's a connection with their sense of humour. It's why I liked Julian Clary and Jodie Kidd and it's why I liked Jay before he'd danced at all. The fact he's turned out to be as good as he has is just a bonus, really.

Julian Clary is one of my all time favourite contestants Loved his partnership with Erin and he actually turned out some truly entertaining with actual dance content routines. Their Richard Gere An Officer and a Gentleman inspired showdance was fab-u-lous

Exactly - its not double standards just liking different people. A 'wonderful personality' is very subjective and a lot of people obviously didn't relate to Natalie. Jay is a very different type - I don't think he will be 'touching the divine' any time soon

It may have less to do with a male/female thing and more to do with the fact that many don't realise he has had dance training....that may also explain the difference between here and facebook - this forum has all details on everyone but the general public who don't investigate as much as we do on here might be unaware. I certainly didn't know he had dance training in the first two weeks till I came on here and other members on here have said the same thing.

Also, when I told colleagues at work, they were surprised too and presumed he was a novice as well.