I don't generally mind Len, but how did he get to be head judge in the first place? I've read his autobiography and I understand that, as usual, the producers almost missed asking him. There are judges with a better pedigree (at least we'd heard of Darcey; and baby boomers should have heard of Arlene, but only from Hot Gossip - most viewers, if they are honest, wouldn't have heard of Len, Craig and Bruno at the outset) etc. etc. etc. .....
How did Len get to be head judge, anyway?
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It's probably politics why he got the head judge position, the BBC seem to insist he has the most talent and knowledge. Trouble is he has naff direction from the BBC bosses, the bosses are such fools thinking we like him being the baddie, like he is on DWTS. Their blatantly incorrect over it. 
but Darcy, arlene and co do not know the ins and outs of ballroom and latin and whilst I don't always agree with him Len does know his stuff - he has competed at it, run a dance school for years, and judged at competition level too - so compared to the other judges he is the one whose expertise is in ballroom and latin so hence head judge
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“but Darcy, arlene and co do not know the ins and outs of ballroom and latin and whilst I don't always agree with him Len does know his stuff - he has competed at it, run a dance school for years, and judged at competition level too - so compared to the other judges he is the one whose expertise is in ballroom and latin so hence head judge”
“but Darcy, arlene and co do not know the ins and outs of ballroom and latin and whilst I don't always agree with him Len does know his stuff - he has competed at it, run a dance school for years, and judged at competition level too - so compared to the other judges he is the one whose expertise is in ballroom and latin so hence head judge”
While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?
Originally Posted by Mr Cellophane:
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!
Not only do they have plenty of ballroom/latin experience, but they've been through the Strictly process themselves and will be able to give fairer critiques in my opinion.
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!
Not only do they have plenty of ballroom/latin experience, but they've been through the Strictly process themselves and will be able to give fairer critiques in my opinion.”
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!
Not only do they have plenty of ballroom/latin experience, but they've been through the Strictly process themselves and will be able to give fairer critiques in my opinion.”
Try telling that to the shows executive producer and see what response you get. I don't think he'll improve to be honest, but I think it's all directions from the top down. Len doesn't want to really be on the panel, he's been forced to as their giving him a better deal. He is being such a cock this year.
Makes me laugh. It used to be Craig who got all the flack and was hated. Nowadays it is poor old Len 
Originally Posted by Patricia_Sandel:
“Makes me laugh. It used to be Craig who got all the flack and was hated. Nowadays it is poor old Len”
“Makes me laugh. It used to be Craig who got all the flack and was hated. Nowadays it is poor old Len
”
Len has brought it upon himself though.
Karen Hardy would be dreadful and more painful than Arlene was at times - the only ex strictly one that I could stand would be Ian Waite - but frankly when the show is getting the ratings it has - why change it
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!
Not only do they have plenty of ballroom/latin experience, but they've been through the Strictly process themselves and will be able to give fairer critiques in my opinion.”
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!
Not only do they have plenty of ballroom/latin experience, but they've been through the Strictly process themselves and will be able to give fairer critiques in my opinion.”
Totally and completely agree! I always enjoy hearing their input on ITT and they're entertaining too. If we lost Len and he was not replaced with someone who can correctly describe the steps and note whether they're done well, I think the show would absolutely lose something.
Originally Posted by Mr Cellophane:
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
^^ this^^
Originally Posted by Mr Cellophane:
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
“While all this may be indisputable fact, he is also rude, bullying, cliche ridden and wildly inconsistent in his scoring.
By all means have someone with good credentials in ballroom and latin as head judge, but surely SCD can do better than ghastly Len?”
Cor blimey guv'nor - you havin' a giraffe? Len has pickled more walnuts than any of those more qualified judges. They haven't even got a catchphrase between 'em!
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!”
“Karen Hardy and Ian Waite need to be on that panel!”
I would switch off immediately if I saw either of them on the panel. The thought of both of them is horrendous!
Originally Posted by lundavra:
“I would switch off immediately if I saw either of them on the panel. The thought of both of them is horrendous!”
“I would switch off immediately if I saw either of them on the panel. The thought of both of them is horrendous!”
Slightly melodramatic...but ok!
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“Karen Hardy would be dreadful and more painful than Arlene was at times - the only ex strictly one that I could stand would be Ian Waite - but frankly when the show is getting the ratings it has - why change it”
“Karen Hardy would be dreadful and more painful than Arlene was at times - the only ex strictly one that I could stand would be Ian Waite - but frankly when the show is getting the ratings it has - why change it”
The ratings are still high, but on the decline. Last year's scd was the least watched since 2009. This is all the fault of louise rainbow who is the exec producer for enhancing the show like burn the floor and having a tory director general as well. Both those two and charlotte Moore who is bbc one controller are killing off the show as we know it . To me the people at the top of scd with mark linsey included have far too much power over what goes on, it's like it's their show and not ours.
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“Karen Hardy would be dreadful and more painful than Arlene was at times - the only ex strictly one that I could stand would be Ian Waite - but frankly when the show is getting the ratings it has - why change it”
“Karen Hardy would be dreadful and more painful than Arlene was at times - the only ex strictly one that I could stand would be Ian Waite - but frankly when the show is getting the ratings it has - why change it”
I agree that good ratings is the excuse used not to change things, but who's to say that they can't be increased?
And as for good ratings being proof of individual popularity, how many famous presenters past and present can we all think of where the majority of people say "I can't bear him/her but I like the show"?
I respect the fact that Len clearly knows a lot about dance. I just wish that he was allowed/expected to actually say some of it instead of those tortuous puns and meaningless metaphors. I realise that much of it would be repetitive, since beginners generally make the same mistakes, but that's where the three other judges come in- for variety. And no one seems to mind that Mary Berry says pretty much the same thing every week. And without hyperbole too.
Experts are subjective. Len is head judge cos he's the oldest. Imagine if any of the others were head judge and Len was still on the panel. Exactly!
Personally I have always preferred Craig, he plays the villain but that somewhat masks what a good judge he is. The pros and celebs all fear his criticism but when he praises boy it feels good. No other judge has this kind of kudos.
Personally I have always preferred Craig, he plays the villain but that somewhat masks what a good judge he is. The pros and celebs all fear his criticism but when he praises boy it feels good. No other judge has this kind of kudos.
I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.
Because like it or not he has the most expertise of ballroom/latin on that panel.
Bruno and Craig mostly theatrical background. Darcey, ballet.
Bruno and Craig mostly theatrical background. Darcey, ballet.
Originally Posted by Ellie1967:
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
I agree with you Ellie. It is these same producers that think that viewers want to see ridiculous, silly VT clips, when most of us would prefer to see how the training went with no slapstick "comedy".
I put this very question to someone who has been a dancer and instructor for the best part of half a century.
She advised me that in dancing circles whilst Len might not have been the best dancer or judge, what he always had was personality; and no doubt that was an important consideration when the BBC started Strictly back in 2004.
When he began as head judge I thought Len was fine and fair and gave good critique and advice to the competitors based on what he had seen. Now, however.........his comments leave a lot to be desired; and have done for a number of series.
She advised me that in dancing circles whilst Len might not have been the best dancer or judge, what he always had was personality; and no doubt that was an important consideration when the BBC started Strictly back in 2004.
When he began as head judge I thought Len was fine and fair and gave good critique and advice to the competitors based on what he had seen. Now, however.........his comments leave a lot to be desired; and have done for a number of series.
Originally Posted by Ellie1967:
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
Karen and Ian on ITT have the advantage of time - they get more time to talk about one celeb dance than the individual judges do for all of them at the time. Any new judge would have the same problem - trying to give a critique/proper advice in 5 seconds. I thought that's what Len's Lens <shudder> was supposed to be for - time for the judges to expand on the judging but it's just look at the funny faces.
I think Len has been better this year - not dishing out 7s by default.
Of course he should be head judge. He has the most experience of ballroom and Latin dancing on the panel. If he were in any other 'profession' with the same calibre of people around him he would be head honcho.
Of course he should be head judge. He has the most experience of ballroom and Latin dancing on the panel. If he were in any other 'profession' with the same calibre of people around him he would be head honcho.
Originally Posted by Ellie1967:
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
“I agree that the judging panel is tired these days and I don't particularly like any of them anymore, but they are only playing the role the producers give them. People saying Karen or Ian would be fairer or describe steps and give proper advice - I doubt it. Len has the expertise to do all that but that's clearly not what TPTB think viewers want so instead he makes stupid puns and tells people they 'came aaaht' etc.. and most of the time if he is 'unfair' on a contestant it is probably part of the producers overall plan. Any replacement would be given a role too - I don't think anyone would be allowed to sit there and actually give intelligent critique like they sometimes can on ITT.”
Exactly! Len is by far the best qualified to give specific critique on ballroom and latin, as opposed to general dance comment but, frankly, isn't allowed to. I also think he tries very hard to adjust his marks to accommodate the various levels of expertise of the celebs. But, while people whine on about the unfairness of 'ringahs' competing against novices, they also criticise Len for 'inconsistent marking' when he tries to level the differences with his marking and certainly his critiques. I would be horrified, much as I enjoy his role on the show, if Craig became head judge.
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Exactly! Len is by far the best qualified to give specific critique on ballroom and latin, as opposed to general dance comment but, frankly, isn't allowed to. I also think he tries very hard to adjust his marks to accommodate the various levels of expertise of the celebs. But, while people whine on about the unfairness of 'ringahs' competing against novices, they also criticise Len for 'inconsistent marking' when he tries to level the differences with his marking and certainly his critiques. I would be horrified, much as I enjoy his role on the show, if Craig became head judge.”
“Exactly! Len is by far the best qualified to give specific critique on ballroom and latin, as opposed to general dance comment but, frankly, isn't allowed to. I also think he tries very hard to adjust his marks to accommodate the various levels of expertise of the celebs. But, while people whine on about the unfairness of 'ringahs' competing against novices, they also criticise Len for 'inconsistent marking' when he tries to level the differences with his marking and certainly his critiques. I would be horrified, much as I enjoy his role on the show, if Craig became head judge.”
BiB - that is not what he does.
Examples:
1. Peter's CCC has little CCC content - no problem. Giovanni's rumba doesn't have many genuine rumba steps - Len comes down on him like a ton of bricks.
2.Peter's quickstep includes a gallop across the floor like N. Korean soldiers on May Day parade - no problem. Helen does a quite competent ballroom dance (can't remember which) - Len: 'didn't see any heel leads'
I could go on....
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