She was ignored from the start. Aisha wanted her out of the way.
I may be biased as she is my favourite so far, but I still would've liked her to be PM.
I may be biased as she is my favourite so far, but I still would've liked her to be PM.
Unfair on Charleine
1 of 4
Originally Posted by Alex_McNamee:
“She was ignored from the start. Aisha wanted her out of the way.
I may be biased as she is my favourite so far, but I still would've liked her to be PM.”
“She was ignored from the start. Aisha wanted her out of the way.
I may be biased as she is my favourite so far, but I still would've liked her to be PM.”
Still happnming! Grr...
I think they see her as serious competition and are clearly on a mission to close her down. They could at least try to be a bit more subtle about it.
Originally Posted by sutie:
“I think they see her as serious competition and are clearly on a mission to close her down. They could at least try to be a bit more subtle about it.”
“I think they see her as serious competition and are clearly on a mission to close her down. They could at least try to be a bit more subtle about it.”
Agreed.
I thought that Charleine came across as a pain in the backside myself. As soon as she lost out on being project manager (in a fair vote), she was looking daggers at the others. She already seems to have alienated some of them, even this early on, which probably isn't a good sign. .
Although I think the girls made the right decision in choosing Aisha over Charleine for PM, I do think Charleine had a very good point when she was going on about how it's better than argan oil and elasticity etc - it was all about the cactus and I'm surprised that it wasn't picked up on further.
The edit painted her horribly tonight but then I think Selina came across just as bad. There's clearly something between those 2 and I get the feeling that Charleine is going to be a Rebecca (s9) of the series.
The edit painted her horribly tonight but then I think Selina came across just as bad. There's clearly something between those 2 and I get the feeling that Charleine is going to be a Rebecca (s9) of the series.
I think Aisha made a decision early on not to use Charleine, I can imagine Charleine is very annoying, but she did have expertise in this area and if they had given her something, like the pitch, to focus her attention on then she probably wouldn't have been so annoying. She was pretty much used as a stylist throughout the task and I can see why she was getting frustrated, especially since she seemed to know better than most of them what she was talking about and she was just getting ignored.
I'm in two minds about it. Aisha definitely sidelined Charleine, but I think she did her a huge favour by doing that.
They were in a losing battle from the second the men did the packaging. I think LAS was a little disappointed that he'd already used the 70s porn video reference, because that was prefect for Selina's advert. That being said, I thinkif she'd been PM, Charleine would've made her campaign too serious and she would've been gone instead.
They were in a losing battle from the second the men did the packaging. I think LAS was a little disappointed that he'd already used the 70s porn video reference, because that was prefect for Selina's advert. That being said, I thinkif she'd been PM, Charleine would've made her campaign too serious and she would've been gone instead.
Also snob factor, I bet some of them view her as "only" a hairdresser, I knew the minute she was sidelined the task was doomed for the women.
Definitely looked like Aisha, April, Natalie and Selina had formed themselves into something of a clique with the intent of ensuring Charleine didn't get an opportunity to shine in a task which would, most likely, have suited her very well.
Shame really, I suppose, but if Charleine makes it through a couple more tasks it probably won't make a difference in the long-run anyway.
In the short-term, she might have actually dodged a bullet because the other team's product was VERY strong in this episode and if she'd been in charge and lost she might've been the one heading home.
Shame really, I suppose, but if Charleine makes it through a couple more tasks it probably won't make a difference in the long-run anyway.
In the short-term, she might have actually dodged a bullet because the other team's product was VERY strong in this episode and if she'd been in charge and lost she might've been the one heading home.
I think if Charlene did it we could have had 2 strong products, the likely would have pipped the boys because she wouldn't have left out the facts of the product and included an after shot.
The design and overall marketing would have just been better. And as a man the male one look similar to the Toni and Guy for men that I already buy, black bottle with white lettering.
The design and overall marketing would have just been better. And as a man the male one look similar to the Toni and Guy for men that I already buy, black bottle with white lettering.
Originally Posted by firefly_irl:
“I think if Charlene did it we could have had 2 strong products, the likely would have pipped the boys because she wouldn't have left out the facts of the product and included an after shot.”
“I think if Charlene did it we could have had 2 strong products, the likely would have pipped the boys because she wouldn't have left out the facts of the product and included an after shot.”
If I'm right about the clique, if Charleine had been in charge they might have taken it upon themselves to sabotage the project.
Pure speculation, of course.
It was an attempted hatchet job, by making sure a hair expert was seen to be doing very little in a hair based task, Sugar would immediately see that as a sign of weakness etc, but It failed in all honesty
Originally Posted by Neio:
“I thought that Charleine came across as a pain in the backside myself. As soon as she lost out on being project manager (in a fair vote), she was looking daggers at the others. She already seems to have alienated some of them, even this early on, which probably isn't a good sign. .”
“I thought that Charleine came across as a pain in the backside myself. As soon as she lost out on being project manager (in a fair vote), she was looking daggers at the others. She already seems to have alienated some of them, even this early on, which probably isn't a good sign. .”
Aisha was totally arrogant and very annoying.
I'm glad she was fired. She deserved it. The packaging sucked, the ad sucked, the 'secret' sucked.
And she sucked. Credit to Lord Sugar. I don't think he liked her even before the task.
Originally Posted by TheAuburnEnigma:
“Although I think the girls made the right decision in choosing Aisha over Charleine for PM, I do think Charleine had a very good point when she was going on about how it's better than argan oil and elasticity etc - it was all about the cactus and I'm surprised that it wasn't picked up on further.
The edit painted her horribly tonight but then I think Selina came across just as bad. There's clearly something between those 2 and I get the feeling that Charleine is going to be a Rebecca (s9) of the series.”
“Although I think the girls made the right decision in choosing Aisha over Charleine for PM, I do think Charleine had a very good point when she was going on about how it's better than argan oil and elasticity etc - it was all about the cactus and I'm surprised that it wasn't picked up on further.
The edit painted her horribly tonight but then I think Selina came across just as bad. There's clearly something between those 2 and I get the feeling that Charleine is going to be a Rebecca (s9) of the series.”
BiB - just said something similar in the main thread for last nights show , those 2 really look like they dont like each other already
Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt:
“I agree. She was totally arrogant and very annoying.
I'm glad she was fired. She deserved it. The packaging sucked, the ad sucked, the 'secret' sucked.
And she sucked. Credit to Lord Sugar. I don't think he liked her even before the task.”
“I agree. She was totally arrogant and very annoying.
I'm glad she was fired. She deserved it. The packaging sucked, the ad sucked, the 'secret' sucked.
And she sucked. Credit to Lord Sugar. I don't think he liked her even before the task.”
I think you're confusing her for Aisha?
I really like Charlene and felt sorry for her last night. Aisha didn't have a clue, she should have used Charlene a lot more. I can imagine she would have done way better in the pitch than Natalie did. She seems to have her head screwed on. The other girls see her as a threat, especially Selina.
It's the long game, because as soon as Charlene becomes pm, she's going to go on a power trip and "be out to get the others" that have hindered her in previous tasks. Thus opening herself up to criticism from her team. She will have to be very careful, in the coming weeks, as has already been said there's a group out to get her.
Originally Posted by firefly_irl:
“I think if Charlene did it we could have had 2 strong products, the likely would have pipped the boys because she wouldn't have left out the facts of the product and included an after shot.”
“I think if Charlene did it we could have had 2 strong products, the likely would have pipped the boys because she wouldn't have left out the facts of the product and included an after shot.”
I thought it was the boys, not the girls, who were criticised for not including an after shot?
On both tasks so far, Charleine has sulked when she didn't get her way, which is not a good sign for future tasks. I think she's burned a few bridges within her team already - certainly Selina isn't going to have her high on her Xmas card list.
While Aisha proved to be a terrible project manager, I don't think the fact that Charleine knows the industry gave her the right to be PM the way she seemed to assume it did - although she was right to put herself forward.
You don't need to be an industry expert to be a good PM as long as you use the expertise and skills of the team around you well. Richard was no expert in haircare but he used his knowledge of marketing and the creativity of his own team (such as David's enthusiasm for directing) well.
Where the girls went wrong was in ignoring Charleine's expertise when she tried to make constructive suggestions on the ad shoot. They (particularly Selina) were very dismissive of her. What's the point of having an expert on your team if you then ignore them? It would be like bringing in Bradley Wiggins to help run a cycling team - you wouldn't necessarily ask him to run the project but you wouldn't sit him in a corner and tell him just to make the teas for everyone either, would you?
While Aisha proved to be a terrible project manager, I don't think the fact that Charleine knows the industry gave her the right to be PM the way she seemed to assume it did - although she was right to put herself forward.
You don't need to be an industry expert to be a good PM as long as you use the expertise and skills of the team around you well. Richard was no expert in haircare but he used his knowledge of marketing and the creativity of his own team (such as David's enthusiasm for directing) well.
Where the girls went wrong was in ignoring Charleine's expertise when she tried to make constructive suggestions on the ad shoot. They (particularly Selina) were very dismissive of her. What's the point of having an expert on your team if you then ignore them? It would be like bringing in Bradley Wiggins to help run a cycling team - you wouldn't necessarily ask him to run the project but you wouldn't sit him in a corner and tell him just to make the teas for everyone either, would you?
Originally Posted by Neio:
“I thought it was the boys, not the girls, who were criticised for not including an after shot?”
“I thought it was the boys, not the girls, who were criticised for not including an after shot?”
It was the boys who were criticised for that, although in the greater scheme of things it was a relatively minor error.
Rule number 1 of the advertising task: get your product, branding and packaging right so that people know what the product is and what it stands for. The boys did that. The girls acted as if none of them had ever watched the show before. It's pretty much a given for this task that the final ad is going to be deficient in some way - even professional agencies with big teams and big budgets don't plan and shoot a TV ad in two days.
Originally Posted by slouchingthatch:
“On both tasks so far, Charleine has sulked when she didn't get her way, which is not a good sign for future tasks. I think she's burned a few bridges within her team already - certainly Selina isn't going to have her high on her Xmas card list.
While Aisha proved to be a terrible project manager, I don't think the fact that Charleine knows the industry gave her the right to be PM the way she seemed to assume it did - although she was right to put herself forward.
You don't need to be an industry expert to be a good PM as long as you use the expertise and skills of the team around you well. Richard was no expert in haircare but he used his knowledge of marketing and the creativity of his own team (such as David's enthusiasm for directing) well.
Where the girls went wrong was in ignoring Charleine's expertise when she tried to make constructive suggestions on the ad shoot. They (particularly Selina) were very dismissive of her. What's the point of having an expert on your team if you then ignore them? It would be like bringing in Bradley Wiggins to help run a cycling team - you wouldn't necessarily ask him to run the project but you wouldn't sit him in a corner and tell him just to make the teas for everyone either, would you?”
“On both tasks so far, Charleine has sulked when she didn't get her way, which is not a good sign for future tasks. I think she's burned a few bridges within her team already - certainly Selina isn't going to have her high on her Xmas card list.
While Aisha proved to be a terrible project manager, I don't think the fact that Charleine knows the industry gave her the right to be PM the way she seemed to assume it did - although she was right to put herself forward.
You don't need to be an industry expert to be a good PM as long as you use the expertise and skills of the team around you well. Richard was no expert in haircare but he used his knowledge of marketing and the creativity of his own team (such as David's enthusiasm for directing) well.
Where the girls went wrong was in ignoring Charleine's expertise when she tried to make constructive suggestions on the ad shoot. They (particularly Selina) were very dismissive of her. What's the point of having an expert on your team if you then ignore them? It would be like bringing in Bradley Wiggins to help run a cycling team - you wouldn't necessarily ask him to run the project but you wouldn't sit him in a corner and tell him just to make the teas for everyone either, would you?”
Spot on, Richard was an excellent PM yet some of the team seemed to use his delegation strategy as criticism. A good manager knows the skills of his team and uses them accordingly, he himself/herself doesn't necessarily need to be an expert themselves.
That said, it was a shame they didn't chose Charleine as PM in this task and thereafter continued to ignore everything she suggested. Compare with the last task no one wanted to offer any input because "that's not my industry", here they had someone who specialises in this line and she was continually shoved to the side - it didn't make any sense to me. Unfortunately she did herself no favours by being rather sulky about it all, but I can understand why she was.
Originally Posted by Merida:
“Spot on, Richard was an excellent PM yet some of the team seemed to use his delegation strategy as criticism. A good manager knows the skills of his team and uses them accordingly, he himself/herself doesn't necessarily need to be an expert themselves.
That said, it was a shame they didn't chose Charleine as PM in this task and thereafter continued to ignore everything she suggested. Compare with the last task no one wanted to offer any input because "that's not my industry", here they had someone who specialises in this line and she was continually shoved to the side - it didn't make any sense to me. Unfortunately she did herself no favours by being rather sulky about it all, but I can understand why she was.”
“Spot on, Richard was an excellent PM yet some of the team seemed to use his delegation strategy as criticism. A good manager knows the skills of his team and uses them accordingly, he himself/herself doesn't necessarily need to be an expert themselves.
That said, it was a shame they didn't chose Charleine as PM in this task and thereafter continued to ignore everything she suggested. Compare with the last task no one wanted to offer any input because "that's not my industry", here they had someone who specialises in this line and she was continually shoved to the side - it didn't make any sense to me. Unfortunately she did herself no favours by being rather sulky about it all, but I can understand why she was.”
That's life in business, though. When you work with teams, you don't always like everyone and you don't always agree with every decision. You have to suck it up and get on with it, because you never know when you will rely tomorrow on someone you clash with today.
Charleine was treated badly, for sure. But, having made her contribution and tried repeatedly to be heard, she had done what she needed to do on task. Losing her rag helped no one, not least herself. Easier said than done to keep your cool when all around you are behaving like idiots, of course, but is she going to be given responsibility and a chance to shine should Selina become PM again in the near future? Unlikely.
Part of the problem with many of the candidates is that they are inexperienced in managing teams. Many are relatively young (not that being older necessarily makes you a good leader/manager either!) Many are sole traders or own/run small businesses where it is unequivocally clear that they are the boss and what they say goes. Being thrown into this environment, with lots of big egos and everyone playing their own agenda, is alien territory and many candidates seem unable to remember that "he who shouts loudest" is often a recipe for disaster in the process.
Richard may have chosen to delegate for exactly the reasons David suggested, but it is also the best way to run a team - and as someone who runs a digital marketing agency of his own, I imagine that is how he runs his real business. As the boss, you don't need to be the best number-cruncher or the best creative or know the most about systems and social media - that's what you employ a team of experts with those individual skills for. Your job is to set and maintain direction, get the best out of them and give them every opportunity to succeed while trying to protect them from the rest of failure. David accused Richard of self-interest - actually it was just professional management.
1 of 4
