What makes Janet more of an artist? She is much a pop star and an entertainer as Madonna is. When I hear the word artist, I think of someone who is doing very alternative or avant garde non commercial music That is not Janet. She does almost all commercial pop/R&B/dance music.

In fact, you could argue that Madonna has done more artistic alternative type of songs such as tracks like Mer Girl, Paradise Not for Me and Falling Free over the years.
I don't think Janet has done anything that offbeat. She follows a formula much more than Madonna does. And Janet does mostly a greatest hits setlist in her concerts, whereas Madonna picks songs that attempt to tell a story and her narrative. So I would agree they both are pop stars and entertainers, but that Madonna has more artistic tendencies.

Eh no.


Well I heard it from Wendy Williams so my source ain't the best hahah

Both are influential artists in their own right, but Madonna is the one who has opened the doors to manufactured female pop stars who possess little talent but get by on good looks and personality. Along with Michael Jackson, Prince, Tina Turner and Whitney Houston, Janet and Madonna were the faces of MTV in the 1980s and early 1990s. If we’re judging them on success and impact, then Madonna trumps Janet Jackson. However, I don’t rate either of them. Janet only has a career because of her brother and the only reason Madonna has a career is because she’s benefited heavily from the talent of other people.

Madonna has experimented more in her career by jumping on fads and bandwagons whereas Janet has remained within the pop and R&B field. Some criticise her for this, but it’s nothing thousands of other artists don’t do. Madonna leaping from one style of music to another hasn’t always worked out for her. In fact, she's always kept her foot firmly in pop and dance music while incorporating another style into it, so she's never been THAT risky.

Both are weak singers (though they’ve never claimed to be amazing) but Janet is the better dancer. Janet has lost the European market whereas Madonna can still sell ok in some countries. Janet was more popular than Madonna in the early to mid-1990s. Janet (the album) sold 20 million copies worldwide and over seven million copies in the US whereas Erotica and Bedtime Stories sold six million and seven million copies worldwide. Rhythm Nation (1989) and All for You (2001) sold more copies in the US than Like a Prayer and Music.

I’m not sure who’s influenced Janet (I know she loves Joni Mitchell), but I don't think there's a single closet belonging to a 1970s diva and old school Hollywood star that Madonna hasn't raided at some point over the last 30 years. She’s pop music’s biggest magpie. She has rarely done anything first. You can nearly always find an example of someone doing something before she did it. It’s interesting how many of her supposedly iconic moments are made up of bits and pieces taken from other people’s work. I'm not aware of any plagiarism cases against Janet, but Madonna has been successfully sued several times for plagiarising other people's work without permission.

Nipplegate is interesting. I don’t think it would have been such a big deal had Madonna flashed her breast at the Super Bowl, but people expect that sort of desperation from her, I guess some people expected more from Janet.

One thing Janet has that Madonna never will is an Oscar nomination Sorry Madge!

I don't see how Madonna has opened the doors for manufactured artists who are just good looking when Madonna has co-written and co-produced most of her own biggest hits. She is not a manufactured artist, who has no involvement in the creation of her own music. Yes, she works with other people but she is an equal partner with them.
Also, I'm not a big Janet fan, but I don't think it's fair to all to say the only reason she is successful is because of her brother. La Toya is also Michael's sister and she is never had the same success as Janet, so clearly Janet must be contributing something in her own right. To say she is only successful because of her brother seems sexist to me. It's saying a woman is only successful because of her male relative.

Where is the evidence that Madonna has been successful sued for plagarism? I'm not aware of such cases.

Also, when you say Janet Jackson has an Oscar Nomination, that is misleading, It was for Best Original Song, not for acting. Janet has been in several movies but her acting has not been acclaimed any more than Madonna's has. Madonna has won the Golden Globe several times for Best Original Song. If Madonna wrote a song that was included in a film, there's no reason why she wouldn't be nominated since her music and songwriting has always been highly acclaimed.

Found this:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4449580.stm

janet owes her success to jimmy jam and terry lewis more than anything. having a famous family helped, but she had two flop albums before jam and lewis produced control and latoya and rebbie Jackson didn't exactly set the charts on fire with their solo material. most people probably haven't even heard of rebbie, never mind heard any of her music. the post jam and lewis material wasn't great either

I do find it interesting that whilst jam and lewis worked with MJ that they never reached anywhere near the same level of success of quality material with him than they did with janet. control and rhythm nation were huge selling great albums, but they never managed to do something like that with MJ

To the people who are saying "Janet" is riding on Michael's name etc. are utterly ridiculous.

That is putting her alongside someone like Dannii Minogue who blatantly hangs on Kylie.

Janet, however has had 7 No.1 Albums over 4 Decades and is the sixth biggest selling female artist of all time.

She has some of the most iconic music videos and iconic choreography of all time for female artists. She paved the way for artists such as Britney Spears, Pink, Katy Perry, Jennifer Lopez and Beyonce (too mention a few).

She was the first recipient of the MTV ICON award along with MTV Music Video Vanguard award.

Furthermore, in the 90s she signed the biggest recording deal of all time with Virgin for $80,000,000.

Not only that, she has won tons of awards including Grammys.

To add to that she has just embarked on a massive world tour which is gaining rave reviews.

So to say that she is riding on her second name and off her brother's fame is just utterly ridiculous and clearly your opinion is narrow minded and un-researched. So before you make statements like that please check your facts.

Thanks for pointing this out. I had spent a few minutes trying to figure out what Spacecake was talking about but as most of his posts are copy and paste jobs from other websites I assumed he had put something together without reading it through.

Earlier on I read that Janet Jackson, Barbra Streisand and Bruce Springsteen are the only artists to have a number one album on the Billboard 200 in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s and 2010s. Barbra has had a stellar 12 months. I think it's impressive that a 73-year-old performer can sell a million copies of an album in the US and over two million copies worldwide. I doubt she would lose the top spot to a television soundtrack. Queen!

Maybe if Madonna had bothered to write You Must Love Me she might have shared the Oscar with Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice. I guess she’ll just have to keep polishing her Golden Globes.

Why can't you just compliment someone on their career without slagging off Madonna, really what has Striesand got to do with Madonna. You really are one sad bitter individual.
And for the record she has had 34 studio albums and 8 got to number 1 that means on 26 occasions she lost out and some of them didn't even enter the top 30. Which I'm sure she is not one bit bothered about as she has had a fantastic career just as Madonna has!
Streisand can polish her oscars, Madonna her golden globes I can only assume your polishing your turds. As you should have plenty from what you post!

People must live a really sad and lonely life if they spend all day, yes ALL DAY, slagging off Madonna under many different alias accounts on hundreds of different websites everyday. No wonder she has injunctions out against serial stalkers. It just goes to show how mentally ill some people are. I suppose we should feel sorry for them really. They hate Madonna so much their whole life is spent slandering her on the internet. These are the same people who sent death threats to Madonna's adopted kids.

Barbara and Madonna have completely different audiences to even be compared, any sane person would know this. That would be like comparing Kylie to Adele.

We posted at the same time, gotta say BIB

Whilst you make great points, I don't really agree with this. You say that Janet owes her success to Jimmy and Terry and then say it's interesting they didn't have the same success with Michael (or any artist tbh). Clearly that shows that Janet was just as much as responsible for her success as Jimmy and Terry and those two would tell you that. Janet has been very involved in her music from Control to 20Y0 and now Unbreakable with the only albums she didn't write anything on being pre-Control and Discipline.

To say she owes her success to them two, I think is inaccurate and a bit of insult to all involved haha. I mean she did get a #1 one song (Black Cat) in the US that wasn't produced by Jimmy/Terry which she wrote all by herself. Granted it's only one song but still. I feel like they needed her just as much as she needed them. It's almost like saying MJ owes his solo success to Quincy which is just as inaccurate, imo.

I don't actually think anyone said that. I mentioned her brother because through out her career she has been compared to him and always been in his shadow along with her siblings. Michael's career dominated the media, family and all of his siblings careers. His behaviours and the family's constant fall outs and accusations of abuse, incsest within the family and allegations of the father abusing them hugely affected there media profiles.
Michael was the biggest selling artist and unfairly Janet and her siblings were therefore always compared to his successes. But I can't see anywhere in the comments where anyone has said she is riding on Michaels name.

There's little doubt that Madonna was the greatest female artist of her era.

Probably little doubt she is the most successful...but that doesn't mean greatest.

not it doesn't. the fact that her initial music was a complete flop, she had hits when they came along, and her success declined when she didn't work for them makes it pretty obvious that her success is down to them



black cat was co produced by jellybean johnson from the time, the band that jimmy jam and terry lewis was in. the track was recorded at jam and lewis's studios. jam and lewis were in the band the time, with jellybean

regarding quincy jones, i think MJ certainly owes the level of success to him, as again the post quincy stuff wasn't a patch on the 3 albums he produced for MJ

Abibble you won't hear the end of it, it's best left trust me.

Feedback only got to 19 in the US but it was her best performing single since Someone To Call My Lover and it wasn't produced by them.

Her initial music was a flop because it was shit and outdated even for it's time. Have you heard the albums? If they came 10 years earlier then she would have seen more success with them.

Her success declined post Superbowl because her music quality also declined (even with Jimmy and Terry...All For You is not that good of an album). her promotion declined, people were turned off by the constant sex talk and she also was initially blacklisted from radio after Nipplegate until the Discipline album. The radio thing is debatable though since there are other ways to promote an album but with radio support I'm sure she'd have faired better and there wouldn't be an excuse. Discipline itself was doing OK until the promo stopped due to label differences.

Jellybean Johnson does not = Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis even if they were from the same band. It might have been recorded at Flyte Tyme studios but it was penned by Jackson and she also came up with the riff/groove. Fact is she was heavily involved with the production of her music from Control - 20 YO and then Unbreakable. They were a team. I'm not saying she doesn't owe them any gratitude - off course not, that would be wrong. But to say she was only successful because of them is just inaccurate because a lot of her music had her heart and soul in it. It was her life stories in the music, her words and sometimes her musical ideas. It was her performing the songs. There's a reason she was the first female to be nominated for producer of the year at the Grammys.

I cba debating about Michael but that last comment is subjective. There are people that prefer Dangerous to the albums before.

Oh and you failed to address this they were only really successful post-Prince as producers with her (aside from a few hits with Boyz II Men/Usher/Mariah - none of which are notable hits)


Haha I've noticed he likes to have the last word even if it may be the wrong word.

and?


I have pretty much everything studio wise that all the Jackson family have released, and plenty more on top, so unfortunately I have. I doubt very much she would have had success with them regardless of when they were released


her music quality declined as jam and lewis stopped being involved. as mentioned previously on this thread, something like the superbowl or a "scandal" would usually boost someones profile. people being turned off by sex talk is simply a matter of opinion as that is of interest to some


black isn't white either, but the obvious doesn't need to be pointed out

your opinion may differ, however in any test when you measure one thing and have a low score, add something else, measure it have a high score, remove what you added and get a low score, then most results would conclude it's what was added that gives the high score. so in the case of janet, it's jam and lewis who made her a success. they are after all the third most successful producers in history, behind the procuders of elvis and the beatles, the two most successful music acts of all time


not mentioned something isn't failing. their production career mainly took off after leaving the time as they then had more time to work on their production work, whilst they didn't have much time doing it whilst full time band members in the time. their sound is very reminiscent of prince in the control era material in particular, but then apart from morris day playing drums, prince played pretty much everything else on the first 2 time albums, and the rest of the band only played the material in concert

I suggest you look at their website to see how successful they are


wrong again

and? I think shows that she didn't quite need them to have some form of success - even if it was a mediocre hit.



So you'll know how awfully dated they were. She didn't stand a chance.


They only stopped being involved for one album. Since you own the albums then you'll know they have production credits on every album except pre-Control and Discipline. The only difference is that Damita Jo and 20YO had other producers on some songs (with Janet, Jimmy and Terry still being the executive producers of the overall album). Damita Jo is still a platinum album. 20YO had the plug pulled because she left her label (or was dropped?) and signed with LA Reid. Discipline had the plug pulled due to differences between Janet and LA Reid.


But they didn't make her success, that's what I'm trying to say. Were they a part of her success? Off course they were. But you're making it seem like they're the only reason she was successful which is wrong. Control being a breakthrough album had a variety of factors behind it with Jimmy/Terry only being one of a few of those factors. Spin it how you want but that's the simple truth. It's like creating a baby and you're only crediting the dad for it when the mum had just as much a role to play. If Janet had not been involved like in Discipline, JJ and Dream Street then you would be right - but she was. You own her albums, read the booklets and you'll see her name next to almost every song as a producer and writer. Look up interviews from Jimmy in the last 30 years and you'll see how descriptive he has been in describing the studio process for some songs and how involved Janet was.


I know they are successful. They're legendary. But most people would think Janet when you mention Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. Most people wouldn't say Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis when Janet is mentioned.


I haven't been wrong yet.

Anyway that debate is boring me now so I'll leave that as the final thign I say about it. In regards to the actual topic. Commercially, Madonna will always have the edge. She's sold more records (even though she does have more releases). Granted a lot of it is still to do with her 'shock antics' but her touring numbers are no joke.

Artistically? Madonna these days seems to be more about hopping on a trend rather than setting them. I love how Janet has experimented with every genre over the span of her career. Unbreakable was a much more interesting album than Rebel Heart imo. I adore both of them and their music in different ways.

well it doesn't.

she had 2 flop albums before jam and lewis, she didn't have much of a fanbase until they came along and produced numerous hits for her, to which she built up a fanbase, to which the hardcore fans would then buy anything and she would get greater exposure due to her previous success. this is common with many artists who have a popular period, followed by a less popular period. it's the same with madonna, she will have an audience that will buy anything she releases, no matter how good or bad it will be. that's why artists can keep having hits and success of sorts with mediocre tracks than may not have been as successful had they been released by other artists


if however janet was as fantastic and talented at music creation, she wouldn't need someone like jam and lewis to create great music for her, and her first albums would have been better, regardless of the level of success, if your line of thinking was true


the problem with many modern pop records is lack of cohesion and too many people being involved, so you have 5 or 6 writers on a single track and 17 different producers. the best jam and lewis albums are those where they pretty much produce the lot

do you know what a producer does btw? or what an executive producer does? an executive producer doesn't typically have anything to do with the actual music, but finances it and arranges the staffing, such as using their influence and who they know to call in certain musicians and producers. a producer credit can mean anything from people literally recording and creating the music by playing the instruments themselves, to a vanity credit such as big name artists saying they "produced" their work. sometimes a fake name can be attached to make it seem like more people were involved


it's clear what you are saying, and i'm saying you are wrong

she wasn't much of a success before them, but they created huge hits and as a result made her a big star


wrong.

the simple fact of the matter is that they made her a huge succes. no-one else did it before her, she didn't do it herself


no it's not. that's just your opinion


it's not at all. it's very different


credits don't break down the percentage of exactly how much someone was involved

the long and short if it is that jam and lewis made her a star, and they did the same for other artists such as alexander o neal. similarly his career wasn't anything like his hey days after they stopped working with him, and he ended up doing big brother just like many of janets siblings


so what? most people are ignorant about many things. it's generally only enthusiasts or fans or experts that will know further detail about things, especially well known and popular things. how many people could tell you the name of the producer of elvis, even though he's the most successful producer of all time? most people don't give a shit. they hear a song and either like or not and that's all that typically matters with most things in life. most people don't care who made or how the things they consume were made as they have other things that concern them more, whether they would be arguably more important, or irrelevant. some people just care about stuffing their face and playing video games or watching tv and don't give a damn about what's going on outside of their own world, such as the migrant problem in europe


wrong again. and a statement like that can only lead to being proven wrong yet again. you were wrong about the first thing you said when you said that too

There was nothing wrong with anything I said, but you can keep ignoring the effort Janet put in if you want. I agree with the 2nd to last paragraph though. Most people don't give a shit.

wrong. if you read what i said i point out where you are wrong


i don't ignore her effort. you are just jumping to incorrect conclusions

artists like madonna, janet and MJ's careers were reliant on others to write and produce and create and record music and videos and photographs to give them a successful career. it's the behind the scenes lesser known people like jam and lewis or quincy jones who make them a success. you could take the songs of those type of artists and replace the vocals with someone else or put someone else in the video and the songs could still be a hit. conversely once an artist has built up a fanbase due to some hits, they can release any old crap and it can sell