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Anyone else really disappointed by Jenny?


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Old 23-10-2015, 16:14
george.millman
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Unfortunately, what got Jenny fired was how she played it.

TA doesn't always reward "team-players", and I think that's what Jenny was. She was trying to help the others find the Leaver's Lace and stuff, and Vana just snubbed her. As she said on YF, she should've been more prominent, but she didn't really make any mistakes.

Unfortunately, that's what it all boils down to. On the show, it's really hard to strike a balance between being a team-player and a prominent character. If you're a team player, you'll be gone like Jenny. If a prominent character, you'll be loathed like Vana. Charleine is the only one ticking both those boxes at the minute - she's made a positive contribution to every task without overshadowing her team.

Gender also plays a role in this too. As GM said before, quietly confident male candidates tend to go further than abrasive ones, whilst it's the polar opposite with the women. Examples of this include the likes of Tom Pellereu, Solomon Akhtar and Tom Gearing, and Luisa Zissman, Debra Barr and Claire Young for the women. Steven from series 10 was loud and abrasive and fired quickly, whilst quiet Jemma went soon after.

Basically, if Jenny was male, she'd have gotten a lot further. That sounds much weirder than I'd envisioned...
Doesn't sound weird at all, you've summed the thing up perfectly, Alex.
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Old 23-10-2015, 19:31
Monkseal
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There are plenty of loud, abrasive men (Paul Torrisi, Paul Tulip, Syed, Tre, Adam Corbally, Jim, Lee McQueen) and more quiet measured women (Miriam, Yasmina, Kate, Francesca, Helen, Bianca, Roisin) who got far as well.
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Old 23-10-2015, 20:30
george.millman
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There are plenty of loud, abrasive men (Paul Torrisi, Paul Tulip, Syed, Tre, Adam Corbally, Jim, Lee McQueen) and more quiet measured women (Miriam, Yasmina, Kate, Francesca, Helen, Bianca, Roisin) who got far as well.
There are exceptions, of course, but I think Alex has summed up the general feel of it.

And in fairness, quite a few of your examples were only rarely in the boardroom (including the two people who never were) so Lord Sugar didn't have that many chances to get rid of them anyway.
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Old 24-10-2015, 00:16
PaperSkin
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Why do the prettiest go early



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Old 24-10-2015, 11:19
Alex_McNamee
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There are exceptions, of course, but I think Alex has summed up the general feel of it.

And in fairness, quite a few of your examples were only rarely in the boardroom (including the two people who never were) so Lord Sugar didn't have that many chances to get rid of them anyway.
Exactly.
Debra was in the boardroom pretty much every other week, but she fought her corner and I think Lord Sugar liked that. Same with Melody. In some respects, being in the boardroom more often can make you safer - if you're determined, LS will often see that.
Contrastingly, Francesca was rarely in the boardroom (three times overall if I remember rightly...) but when she was, she actually deserved to go. Week two, she messed up the numbers twice and then ganged up on Tim with Rebecca, forcing LS to fire him. Week six, she was an awful PM, but got lucky. Week eight, she demanded to be brought back in, and whilst she ultimately held the least blame for that task, she'd had a worse track record than Luisa or Jason.

For the men, Jim was never in the boardroom unless he was the PM, though other candidates got fired whilst he stayed - unjustly, I think (Glenn, for example. Natasha maybe, but she was nowhere near as bad as Jim). Lee McQueen was never in the boardroom either, but had he been, he may have been in trouble on a few tasks...
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Old 24-10-2015, 11:59
Monkseal
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Sure, but we can go round and round. If three times over the course of the series isn't a lot of times in the boardroom then of your examples Solomon (1 boardroom), Tom G and Luisa (2 boardrooms) Melody and Tom P (3 boardrooms all in a row towards the end) weren't there a lot either. And I could equally add Daniel from last series (4 times) as a man who was loud, abrasive, put the backs of his team up, and lasted til the end.

If Jenny got fired for being quiet and measured, it's because it led her to not put together a strong argument for keeping her in the boardroom rather than because of any larger pattern.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:14
george.millman
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Monkseal, you make some very good points. I can't speak for Alex, but I am also basing it on Lord Sugar's comments to the various candidates. In the first task last year, Steven was loud and abrasive, but made some very good points. When the team were ganging up on him, Lord Sugar defended him, but got irritated with his personality very quickly, admitting that 'he is an irritant'. Compare that to his reaction to Jo Cameron, or to Maria from YA3, both of whom were also quite intelligent but didn't put across their points in an approachable way. Lord Sugar seemed to admire their determination and their forcefulness in a way that he doesn't usually with men.

Similarly, when men are reasonably quiet, but not overly forthcoming, Lord Sugar tends to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least the first time. When this happens with a woman, he will more often be critical - even if he doesn't fire her on the first occasion, it will be made very clear that her card is marked if she doesn't step up, which isn't something which happens so much with guys. Also, you're not taking into account comments that are given outside of the final boardroom - when Jemma was fired last year, that wasn't the first time Lord Sugar had expressed concern about her. As early as the briefing on the previous task, he said, 'I haven't seen much from you, Jemma.' Compare that with Sanjay, who eventually got the same treatment, but I think not until around the boardroom on Week 8.
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