I agree with what you are saying (though I support ringers and not ringers alike) but then what most of us are complaining about is his flipping attitude. One year it suits him the next not!

There is a way the judges' score can take into account the previous experience of the celeb and it is to score the celebs the way Craig does.

Craig scores in a different way to the other three judges. He gives each couple a score at the start of the season and then works from that score every week So if he gives a couple a 3 one week, they have to dance better the next week to get a higher score. If all the judges did that it could level the playing field a bit, especially if a simple handicap system was introduced. We discussed in previous years celebs being open about their past experience and if this happened it could be used to devise a simple handicap system. It won't happen, but if the playing field was never level in the first place, it's a lot less level these days.

The other problem on here is fewer and fewer posters have watched the show from when it started, so they don't really know what it was like. Watching YT videos doesn't give you much idea at all of what Strictly was like back then.

Or, more accurately, those who don't mind experienced dancers are in a minority when compared to the specific cross-section of society who self-selected to respond to a tabloid poll. The truth about statistics is that you have to understand how to interpret them and, as with all research, any confounding factors such as a delimited pool of participants will skew the data.

And in all honesty, I couldn't be more delighted than to find myself to be an outlier in terms of the views of the pond-life who read The Mirror and its ilk.

Series 8 - Kara, Matt, Pamela, Scott, Patsy, Felicity, Michelle, Jimi and Tina all has a degree of dance training. That's 9/14, compared to Georgia, Helen, Jamelia, Jay, Kellie, Peter and maybe Katie - 7/15.

Honestly? I sometimes think that those of us who have watched since episode one series one can sometimes look back over the early days with rose tinted glasses. I know I'm guilty of it myself. It would be interesting to see the whole series as was now, just to see what, if any, tricks time has played on the memory.

I agree with this buddy - who would have thought Craig would have turned out to be perhaps the fairest judge when we were just giving out about how cruel he was being (that particular title lies firmly with Bruno now - I'm finding him obnoxious the last couple of years). When you have Darcey basically saying 'im not giving you a 10 because its only week 3' to Jay for his jive is ridiculous - its either a 10 or its not regardless of what week it is!

I absolutely agree with you, well said.

James Jordan says just what it suits him to say on any given day. When he was dancing with DVO it was fine that she had dancing experience. Now he implies that it's not fair if someone has dancing experience, he changes his tune whenever he likes.

Kirsty has done loads of Ballet and Tap - before she was 10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDJ8sGSB0Q

@ 4 mins.

What has James said that wouldn't apply whether he or Ola got a partner with previous dance training? I think he's taking generally about the show, not moaning about Ola's partner. And apart from Jill, who else had previous experience. I don't think you read my post properly about earlier series.


I agree to a certain extent. The show was a new idea and it was great entertainment. But the increase in celebs with previous dance experience goes hand in hand with other changes like not seeing the relationship between couples in the training room, the pros no longer choosing the music, the increased use of props, etc. It's this kind of thing which for me made the early series great. I still like the show, but it took me a while to accept the changes or stop watching.

And Monkseal I knew you'd be hovering!

Ah, so perhaps its not Jay with all the secret plans.... Kirsty is just lulling the competition into a false sense of security before she breaks out an amazing jive in a couple of weeks

Plus, I expect many, many more people voted for Jill, Kara, Tom, Alesha, and Caroline to win (all of whom came with various dance experience) than did on the Mirror poll. So, it's not a particularly good indicator. I also think if contestants' past training really bothered viewers that much, ratings would be falling not rising.

Personally, I probably get more satisfaction out of watching someone who's had little or no dance experience show potential and transform, but there's always been a mixture and there'll be years where I find myself backing one of the ringers because their dancing or their partnership grabs me more than the others.

James isn't quite so relaxed about things or consistent. I think that's what annoys people about him. He lectured viewers about voting for the better dancers when he got knocked out but cheered on Chris and Ola the following year. He complains about trained dancers taking part now but didn't mind when he was paired with Denise. He chops and changes his mind depending on whether he (or Ola) benefit from or are disadvantaged by the situation.

Caroline won the public vote last year despite the media trying to scupper her.
The general public just want to see good dancing, nice people and a great partnership!
The best dancer doesn't always win but we've not had many 'not danced before' winners either.

It's not the only factor! Neither Helen or Jay look like trained dancers in their training footage .. why does Jay not know where to position his head in hold if he's a trained dancer?

I wonder will there be a time when Strictly refuse someone because of too much dance experience and how much is too much?

Will it come a time that celebrities with no experience stop agreeing to do Strictly as there will be no point and it will effectively be 15 trained dancers?

And the wardrobe department

So true .. poor Caroline

Doubt it bb. Strictly's huge and everyone's looking to raise their profile or just be a part of a show they really enjoy - however briefly.

I've heard a rumour that they're trying to sign a Mr J. Jordan (aka the Brad Pitt of dance) next year.

The original name mentioned was a Mr A. Beke (further rumours are that he may be available in 2016) but although he is a bit of a ringah, apparently his Latin is worse than Denise Van Outen's.

That view makes an assumption about the motives of the celebrities in signing up for the show.

How many of them sign up with the expectation that they will make the final and possibly win? I'd suggest that the majority of them realise that they are cannon-fodder, not contenders, but the opportunity for well-paid prime TV and media coverage and the resultant career bounce are far more realistic catalysts for jumping onboard the Strictly gravy train.

There was one time a few years ago when Len said he wanted to give a high score but the producers had told the judges not to do so too early in the series. Admittedly, that was the one and only time that has been mentioned, but I wonder if that might have been behind Darcey only scoring a 9 because it was week 3. Either that or she wanted to leave room for improvement, I suppose.

Why would they do that? We've seen lots of duffers outlast ringers. Judy got to Blackpool .. so did Craig Kelly. Others have gone further. Celebs who have huge fanbases are also at an advantage .. as well as those that come across well. Often quiet people go early .. accused of having 'no personality' etc etc.

It's not just about the dancing. Pixie didn't make the final but Mark Wright did .. go figure! (and if you find out the answer let me know as I'm still puzzling over it.) It's unfair to single out previous dance training as the ONLY advantage and it's particularly unfair of James Jordan to start spouting about it considering the amount of previously dance trained celebs he partnered .. and we all know that if Ola had got Peter Andre he wouldn't be saying anything .. he'd be all 'vote for the dancing.'

Someone like Carol doesn't enter to win anyway, she wants to have fun, get as far as she can, wear nice costumes, be part of the experience and learn to dance.

That 75% is very high and I am not really surprised. Most people who watch on a Saturday night don't have any dance experience and so they want to see the celebs from scratch. It's only the experts on DS who think it is ok to have dance training.

The poll was at the bottom of an article slating people for having dance training,and the show for hiring them.

Gavin Henson got to the Semi Final in Series 8 - which Monkseal has just pointed out had the highest percentage of celebs with dance training.

I feel as though I've been given a row.


So an opinion is only valid if you've watched from year one.
Right.
I understand now.
Apologies for daring to post.

Indeed.

That doesn't explain past winners.