TBH I found little training was needed as soon as I used the right tool things settled down and they realised walking nicely was best idea as we had much better walks. I think in all I used them for about 8 weeks then just very occasionally as reminders when over excitement took over. They changed how they saw the walk I think as slowing down they had time to smell the roses whereas head long dash they didn't have much fun at all.

You are biased towards CM and his methods, we are all biased towards methods we like some of us make a mistake and see CM as curing problems where others of us realise he doesn't cure anything he just terrifies and shuts dogs down.

I have seen every episode of TDW, Leader of the Pack and several episodes of Cesar to the Rescue. I also watched the first half of Doggy Nightmares, but couldn't stomach any more than that!

In the latter he had been 'helping' a family to adopt a second dog. At the rescue shelter, one of the kids (who both turned out to be obnoxious brats) had gravitated towards one particular dog. Cesar agreed that he was the 'right' dog for them.
They also had a cat, but Cesar never bothered to check if the dog would be okay with cats and one of the first things the dog did when they took him home was to stalk and chase the cat. The dog had not been toilet trained and guess what the mother said? She said she was busy toilet training a child and didn't need the hassle of training a pet as well! Do you know what Cesar recommended for toilet training? Tethering the dog to a piece of furniture in the house. He said that would also help to restrict the dog's movements in the house (as he doesn't believe in dogs having full access to a house) and would also stop the dog stealing food. Again that was unbelievable! Does he know anything about basic training??

The show's production team had installed cameras around the house to monitor the dog's progress. What it revealed was shocking. One of the boys (who I think was about five) had gone out to the back yard to see the dog. He proceeded to handle the dog very roughly and the dog ended up biting him. He then kicked the dog several times. He ran into his parents and lied to them saying the dog had bitten him and that he hadn't done anything to the dog. When Cesar viewed the footage with the parents, the expressions on the parents faces suggested that they weren't that bothered about what their son had done to the dog, but more annoyed about him lying. To give Cesar a little bit of credit he did look a bit on the appalled side. But Cesar never said to them that the dog would be better off somewhere else. So he left the poor dog with that nasty family. Shame on him!

Let's highlight a few more of his failures. I used one in my first post and that was him getting a woman bitten because of his use of a shock collar. He failed big time with Shadow and that dog ended up biting the woman who had him and then ended up back with the people who originally had him. There was a dog called Jonbee who ended up going to live with Cheri Lucas because his family couldn't handle him. CM was bitten by Holly the Lab because he pushed her over threshold and failed to pick up on the fact that she was screaming to him that a bite was imminent if he didn't back off. Had he used a different approach and shown the dog that people being around her while she was eating was a good thing then the bite wouldn't have happened and there's a good chance that she would still be with her family. However CM didn't solve her problems and he ended up taking her to live at his centre. Another dog called Cotton eventually had his teeth filed down because he didn't stop biting.

I will give a bit more detail about the dog that was released prematurely from his centre. The dog (a Pit Bull called Gus) had a death sentence hanging over him due to the fact that he had viciously attacked a woman. The only way the dog could live was if he went to CM's centre to be 'rehabilitated'. However the woman who had him could no longer afford the centre's fees, so they released Gus. This is a dog that had bitten thorugh to the bone of a woman's arm and had also ripped off part of her breast yet they allowed him back into society only for him to attack again! The dog is now dead.

Those things alone show how incompetent he is!

As for the 'pack leader' thing. Perhaps you should have a read of this.

With regards to his dog pack training. When he takes dog aggressive dogs and shoves them into his pack (in order for them to 'submit') he is flooding them! When those dogs go back home they will revert back to their old behaviour because:

1. The people who have the dogs will not have a pack of dogs.

2. The dogs are unlikely to encounter packs of dogs while out on walks and will still be reactive towards individual and smaller groups of dogs.

When not using his own pack he will often take dogs well beyond their threshold. He deliberately winds dogs up (to get a reaction out of them) then he uses his punitive and aversive ways to suppress their behaviour. The production team will even use their own 'bait' dogs to get the reactions they want. This is so they can get their close up shots of the dogs barking and snarling because this apparently makes for good dramatic TV. What CM does is merely plaster the bad behaviour. However the behaviour doesn't heal and the behaviour can resurface at any time and that is exactly what has happened to some of the dogs he has 'worked' with. As I pointed out already there are at least a couple of dogs who appeared on TDW who are now dead thanks to him. There are also others who were taken away from their homes because their behaviour did NOT improve. CM NEVER modifys behaviour!

He persists in saying that dogs are like wolves yet CM has not actually studied wolves in their natural habitat. Instead he bases his opinions on an erroneus study which involved randomly selected wolves being thrown together into an unnatural pack. Their behaviour was observed and the findings were then applied to dog behaviour as well. However dogs have been evolving alongside humans for thousands of years and are as much like wolves as we are like neanderthals.

You also say that we haven't provided evidence. We are basing our opinions on modern scientific studies and observations of actual dog and wolf behaviour.

I also find it rather puzzling as to how you can say he never yanks dog about. He frequently gets a thin slip lead and places it at the top of the neck and just behind the ears (which is the most sensitive part of the neck) and there is very little protection for a dog. He has often been seen using the lead to jerk a dog's head up or to the side. He has regularly done it with so much force that the dog's front feet have been lifted off the ground. You must be blind if you haven't seen that happening.

Sad isn't it how some people miss all that when they watch his shows. And sad he is allowed any where near dogs IMO.

Most people on this forum seem biased against Millan, even though his techniques have worked for many. I hear a lot about his theories being debunked but have seen very little evidence of said debunking. Do I agree with everything he says? Not at all but a lot of what he says is common sense. As for dogs not being pack animals...

Many dogs are perfectly happy living as lone dogs in homes they are not pack animals.

We have had one, two and three dogs at a time over the years they don't form a pack what they have is fluid relationships amongst them, happy to go off alone to do many things coming together to play. Any hunting has been one dog individually if they were a pack they would have acted together but eg Duncan was a killer given the chance Mollie would be very upset by that and try to stop him or revive the animal he had killed, that isn't a pack.

In a pack no one tells anyone else what to do, whereas in a home life situation most dogs have to follow instructions from their owners, we are not pack leaders we are their care givers and health and safety officers most of the time.

I think Cesar Millan does a good job - especially in regard of saving dogs who might otherwise have been destroyed.

As for the dog pulling - try a decent harness. My bull terrier was garotting himself with his collar every time we went out, and no method would make him stop, until he was knackered. I found a solution with the Ezydog chest-plate harness. He still pulls a little bit, but not anywhere near as much, and his windpipe is much the better for it in the long term.

https://www.lovethatpet.com/wp-conte...ess-EzyDog.jpg

I used to enjoy Caeser Milan but since watching Victoria Stillwell I can see some issues with his training. I would describe Caeser as a trainer for extreme behaviours that normal training methods don't work. I would never rec him for a minor issue like lead pulling.

Not a fan of CM's methods at all.
They always seem to focus on simply controlling the animal rather than understanding why it's acting in a particular manner and then fixing the problem.

Kumfi, Canny Collar, Halti, all wonderful to stop dogs pulling. Simple devices, bit like a horses halter. They do not hurt the dog in any way. I bought a canny collar when my 18 month old 12 stone newfoundland became impossible to walk. Within a couple of days, I could walk him with my little finger! I tell everybody to use them.

I know he has a bad reputation with animal lovers but he does talk sense a lot of the time.
Dogs are pack animals and if you let them away with behaviour you don't want in your pack(human family) they will try to be top dog.
Then you get ripped sofas...chewed furniture....barking...scratching....digging....etc.
I always think if you have a calm house you will have a calm dog.

If you watch CM properly when he walks dogs he does pull them to the side but then releases the lead immediately - he does encourage walking with a loose lead, so I don't know what's cruel about that? Same when you ride horses, you do a check/half halt when a horse pulls and then immediately release. Dogs, like horses are far stronger than us so there's no point pulling against them as it'd be pointless - that's what Cesar teaches.

I have a 10 month old large breed puppy who is 6 stone, and I've worked hard with him on the walk as he's a herding breed and tended to lunge at people, cars etc - with treats and positive reinforcement it is paying off with him focusing more on me than distractions. But of course exercise plays a big part, my pup has a good run around in the park once a day which really helps keep him walking nicely on the lead.

Hi OP,

I know nothing about Cesar Milan, but 2 things have worked for me with different dogs. First dog was a large GSDxNewfoundland. It would have been dangerous for him not to be fully controlled. He had a halti and after an initial dislike walked along like a lamb. He got to the point where he still had the halti on but all control was directed through his collar (I used 2 leads).

My sisters current dog is a medium sized terrier. He was awful on the lead, pulls like a train. With him, ignoring him (like in the picture Jaycee311 posted) worked a treat. He's naturally inquisitive so stopping and ignoring was certain to make him come back to you and wait. He still has his moments and I doubt anything will ever stop his instinct to chase rabbits but 90% of the time he's good as gold.

Hope you find something that works. It's bloomin tiring to always have to be pulling one back. Not sure what location you're in, but maybe someone could suggest a dog trainer/behaviourist to help with the cars bikes etc.

This whole "Cesar's methods debunked" thing imho just smacks of sour grapes from the dog training and dog training aids fraternity, who clearly lose revenue because of Cesar and the like..

I have employed similar methods and they have worked perfectly and resulted in very happy, contented and loving dogs.

The pack theory is not even debatable, it is a fact.

The way to a well-rounded dog is to relieve it / them of any pack-leader duty burdens it may be carrying. This can be achieved by consistent use of body language, hand gestures and eye contact (or lack of). (Not a clicker or Halti in sight). I only give verbal commands for the benefit of any humans that might be around.

My particular inspiration was Jan Fennel, who I prefer over Cesar but that's possibly just because I came across her methods first. But essentially the theories are the same and (although possibly because I apply them to the letter) they work, whereas others have not been so successful

I'd strongly recommend a Halti, it stopped my German Shepherd dragging me around everywhere. Was recommended to me by a man we passed in the street and as soon as I got one there was a massive difference in our walks.

She did however find a way to drag me again eventually by pulling with her neck instead but by that time she was a bit more mature she didn't do it as much and eventually calmed down in her own time.