................ that the candidates aren't allowed to use their phones for research etc? I was wondering why they had to get someone at 'home base' to find out what Leavers' Lace was when they could have Googled it, there and then. In fact, I should imagine on a task like this latest one, they could source quite a few items before setting off to buy them Would being able to do this spoil the whole purpose of the task? i.e. Using their common sense and initiative to find and purchase without going online?

As I've said before, is common sense and initiative not being passed down to the younger generation any more?

Yeah they seem to be forbidden to use smartphones for research which in 2015 is like telling them not to use electricty, its a ridiculous rule and no way realistic to life.

Ridiculous maybe, but using the internet would make a task like this weeks an absolute doddle.

Imagine going into an exam and being allowed to use your smartphone.

To be honest, exams aren't an especially accurate way of assessing people's skills either. I know a lot of people who have very little patience with the system. We encourage students to recall things in their short-term memories and relay it, and then never be burdened with that knowledge again.

Using the internet on this task might make it easier, but I struggle to see the intellectual point of a task that doesn't really reflect business deals in the real world. I suppose it tests someone's attention to detail when something is hard to find, which is a useful skill...

It tests their resourcefulness and initiative when left with only basic methods to complete a task. Anyway as his lordship stresses every year it's a test of logistics and planning more than anything else.

As for exams that's a whole different subject. They are better means of assessment than coursework though. A bit of pressure does no harm. They shouldn't ever be just a test of short term memory. They should be a test of technique and analytical ability which would demonstrate a deep knowledge of the subject. If you understand a subject you shouldn't need to cram and revise.

Exams are merely a snapshot of performance at a given time. Performance can be subject to many factors.

Coursework would be the better measure..

You can copy coursework, get your parents help and teachers will direct you to make sure you cover everything properly. Exams aren't just a snapshot. They are a test of your knowledge and understanding to date.

I'd suggest that two teams of people having a day to buy a mirror, manure, snails, an inflatable boat etc. in France and England, and the leader of the team which spent the most money then having to choose two people to accompany them into the boardroom so that one (or more) can be fired by someone they don't even work for, isn't exactly "realistic to life" either!

It's a TV show.

Exams are just a snapshot of performance at a given time.

They are also a test of your knowledge and understanding to date.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

Plagiarism would get you kicked out of university, and they have computer programs to detect it now, why would you risk it?

Personally, I prefer to take an exam, I always perform well under exam conditions, but they still have their faults.

I think it's also because of his "humble beginnings" too, which is why flogging stuff (I don't mean business pitches like the cactus shampoo) features so much. If he wants a new business partner, he'd be just as well going around car showrooms and seeing if any of the top sellers have any decent business ideas.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of these tasks are though. Yes, it's amsuing, especially when they don't know what a certain item is, but this doesn't even attempt to mimic the real world. I'll occasionally do my own research if I'm checking the costings of a project that is being pitched, and as they're medical, some of the stuff I don't have a clue about so I ask someone who does. While it's all well and good being able to source supplies cheaply, it's no good if you only have a list and vague or no pointers to what something is. In the real world I'd seek clarification from my boss, but it seems they're not allowed to do it.

I'm also wondering whether SA and his wife have some rather bizarre fetishes as well given what they were asked to acquire...

I've always said that exams only judge how good you are at passing exams. There is no time in the real world where you will be given a work task to complete in one hour in a locked room without talking to anyone or reading a text book (or google if you're modern).

In a similar vein then the Apprentice tasks only show how good they are at doing the apprentice tasks, they only have a very feint relevance to the sort of things they will do in the real world, especially so at the early stages where the tasks are more for audience entertainment than highlighting skills.

So, in school the coursework is much more reflective of how someone can organise and perform a given task. And yes, that can include - shock horror - asking other people for help. The difficulty comes when assessing just how much "help" is needed for it to merge into "getting someone else to do it" (Although knowing when someone else can accomplish a task better than you would yourself is a decent skill in itself.)

But, back to this particular task, the availability of the internet does make having those random items that they won't know what they are seem like an anachronism, but it's good telly watching them buy the wrong size block of cheese.

Quite. Some tasks are more extreme than others, but you could pretty much say that any task the candidates are asked to do is a long way removed from what real business is like. The pure buying and selling tasks are probably the closest, in truth, as they do test genuine business skills: can you plan and organise efficiently, can you negotiate, can you sell etc.

And even then they are one-off tasks where the aim is to sell as much as you can or make as much profit as you can, which results in teams selling all manner of crap without any concerns about earning a bad reputation or how you might go about encouraging customers to repeat purchase.

On the other hand, tasks such as advertising bear virtually no resemblance to reality. Ask a group of random people to devise a new product/brand and make some form of ad about it on a shoestring in 2-3 days? In the real world, you'd have a marketing team working with experts from a creative agency and spending a six-figure sum to research, develop and shoot an ad over a period of several weeks or even months. And even the marketers wouldn't really be involved in the creative and production process - their role is the up-front piece around defining what the product message is, target audience etc.

It might test them, but it's not real life is it.

As we've said on other threads in the past, making the candidates do realistic business tasks would be incredibly dull to watch. Lots of meetings, emails and spreadsheets, mostly. (He says, taking a break from his spreadsheets between meetings ...)

It's pretty boring, the tasks anyway, because they're meaningless in the long run.

Is it? I don't see why it's especially good telly.

I don't know - I think they reveal something about the candidates' personality and general skills rather than necessarily task-specific skills. Can they manage time and logistics? How do they handle conflict and team dynamics? Are they assertive? Do they apply common sense and good business sense (ahem, Elle and dinghy)? Do they present well?

Whether they can negotiate in French specifically is less important, of course, but last week's task certainly told us who was brave (Gary), who was indecisive (Elle) and who could start an argument in an empty room (half of the girls) ...

Well, I was shouting obscenities at them for not realising that block was cheaper because it was a quarter of the specified quantity rather than it being a better deal. Well, it entertained me.

When they launch a business, they won't be able to spend the maximum or use the easiest or most useful resources all the time, or they'll quickly run out of money.

This task is all about being resourceful with what you have, showing good logisical sense and adaptability on the hoof, and the task itself is the best way to show those skills in a more entertaining context than real life.

There's always:

- a choice about who goes on which team
- who has specialist knowledge that might be useful in particular areas
- low value items that will always be cheaper than the fine for not having them where big discounts don't matter
- a big value item that you can get a good deal on if you negotiate well
- medium value items that might not be worth the hassle if they're really hard to source/get a deal on
- item/s that require a bit of research to find out what it is

A good PM would cut through the complications of this.

Oh and the obligatory 'item that Sugar can arbitrarily decide is appropriate to have as a toy version'

The Apprentice - week 5 : Pivot Tables.

Yeah, I can see the candidates loving that one!

Is Ruth part of this younger generation you speak of ?

Well, the Young Apprentice candidates seemed to keep their heads quite well most of the time...

No, I couldn't take to Ruth to start with but I'm slowly warming to her and beginning to like her! She's probably got more initiative and gumption than all the others put together. Of course, now that I've said that she'll probably let the side down tonight and be out on her ear! I do hope not, tho. I find her fascinating!

Would be a bit odd if that happened given how positive an edit she's had so far. It could, of course. Ella Jade was a very obvious contender in the first three episodes of last series, before she was unceremoniously shown the door.