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So now Adele has got Max Martin writing for her...


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Old 24-10-2015, 15:36
Lyceum
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Max Martin is the be all and end all of pop music. I am assuming you like pop music? Then you should know who Max Martin is.

I am not making up the facts that Adele has pro writers on her album. I am also aware those pro writers have worked on other artist's albums...that is what they do...and if they didn't do much they would not be hired in the first place. But I suppose because Adele's face is on the cover you just can't accept the fact that anybody else could have anything to do with the product in the case.
No. I don't like pop music.

I don't like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry or 1D or any other pop artist.

Again, no facts. Just opinion.

I can accept anything truth when presented with the evidence. Something you seem utterly unable to do. But then you don't seem to grasp what 'facts means either and have given us non to back up your opinion. As once again all you've done is state opinion.

The songs state written by Adele and (insert name of co-writer). Again, please provide the fact based evidence (as in not just what your opinion is) that shows the vast majority was in fact written by the co writer and Adele just threw in the odd word here and there.

Until you can do that, then there's no debate to be had.

Well if you insist....

Compare Hometown Glory to Rolling In The Deep. There is more going on in the latter, the latter was also a bigger hit. Now check the credits for each and there's your answer and my argument backed up.

Listen to Baby One More Time by Britney Spears. Then listen to Dear Diary by Britney Spears. Which one do you think is a better song? Which one do you think sounds like a hit? Now...which one was Max Martin involved in?

Would you like more examples?
Ps. This is your opinion again. It's your opinion that the latter songs are better than the former. And also shows zero evidence to beck up your claims.

Perhaps you should look up the words 'fact' and 'evidence'.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:36
Hollie_Louise
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Well if you insist....

Compare Hometown Glory to Rolling In The Deep. There is more going on in the latter, the latter was also a bigger hit. Now check the credits for each and there's your answer and my argument backed up.

Listen to Baby One More Time by Britney Spears. Then listen to Dear Diary by Britney Spears. Which one do you think is a better song? Which one do you think sounds like a hit? Now...which one was Max Martin involved in?

Would you like more examples?
Right, you've given your opinion on what is the better song. You haven't provided any evidence in the slightest that Adele contributed less to the writing of any of her songs than any of her co-writers. You can try again if you'd like?
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:38
Lyceum
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Double post. Deleted.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:39
SummerShudder
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Do you just make wild assumptions in every thread you make?

And Max Martin isn't the be all and end all, and yes, I do know who he is.
You do realise this is the person who wrote I Want It That Way and Baby One More Time. The 2 most significant pop songs of the last 20 years. Safe to say no one else is overshadowing him.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:41
SummerShudder
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Right, you've given your opinion on what is the better song. You haven't provided any evidence in the slightest that Adele contributed less to the writing of any of her songs than any of her co-writers. You can try again if you'd like?
The facts lie in the music. I am using my ears. Do you disagree that Rolling In The Deep and Hometown Glory sound different?
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:43
Hollie_Louise
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You do realise this is the person who wrote I Want It That Way and Baby One More Time. The 2 most significant pop songs of the last 20 years. Safe to say no one else is overshadowing him.
Some advice, try and argue the point somebody else is making. That he wrote what you believe to be the 2 most significant pop songs of the last 20 years, again an opinion, does not make him the be all and end all of pop music. There were huge pop songs before Max Martin, there will be huge pop songs after Max Martin.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:44
Lyceum
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The facts lie in the music. I am using my ears. Do you disagree that Rolling In The Deep and Hometown Glory sound different?
Seriously. Look up the word fact. The facts are in the music? Behave.

It's your opinion nothing more.

Hometown Glory is different to every song on 19, which is different to every song on 21.

Your opinion isn't fact.

I ask again, please show us some FACTS. Not 'repeat your opinion'.

No? Didn't think so.

Please feel free to carry on going around in circles repeating your opinion as fact.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:46
SummerShudder
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No. I don't like pop music.

I don't like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry or 1D or any other pop artist.

Again, no facts. Just opinion.

I can accept anything truth when presented with the evidence. Something you seem utterly unable to do. But then you don't seem to grasp what 'facts means either and have given us non to back up your opinion. As once again all you've done is state opinion.

The songs state written by Adele and (insert name of co-writer). Again, please provide the fact based evidence (as in not just what your opinion is) that shows the vast majority was in fact written by the co writer and Adele just threw in the odd word here and there.

Until you can do that, then there's no debate to be had.



Ps. This is your opinion again. It's your opinion that the latter songs are better than the former. And also shows zero evidence to beck up your claims.

Perhaps you should look up the words 'fact' and 'evidence'.
Sorry your defence of Adele made me presume you were a pop fan.

You do come across as very naďve. I am not naďve however, hence why I know the pro writers are doing most of it. You can keep believing they were hired to put the kettle on and make sure the studio door was left secure at night while Adele was busy creating these masterpieces. In the meantime, I am confident in the knowledge that when professional songwriters are enlisted their expertise is made use of in a far greater manner than adding 2 sugars to Adele's cup of tea,
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:48
Hollie_Louise
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The facts lie in the music. I am using my ears. Do you disagree that Rolling In The Deep and Hometown Glory sound different?
Of course they do, that isn't what I'm disputing. Hit Me Baby One More Time by Britney and Since U Been Gone by Kelly Clarkson sound completely different. Both were written by Max Martin so did Max Martin not have the biggest contribution in either?

The facts do not lie in the music. The facts lie in you being able to show me that Max Martin wrote more than Adele. That is where the facts lie. If you can't show that, it's fine, just admit it.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:51
Hollie_Louise
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Sorry your defence of Adele made me presume you were a pop fan.

You do come across as very naďve. I am not naďve however, hence why I know the pro writers are doing most of it. You can keep believing they were hired to put the kettle on and make sure the studio door was left secure at night while Adele was busy creating these masterpieces. In the meantime, I am confident in the knowledge that when professional songwriters are enlisted their expertise is made use of in a far greater manner than adding 2 sugars to Adele's cup of tea,
Again, show where anybody has said Max Martin's only contribution was making Adele's tea. Oh yeah, they haven't.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:52
Lyceum
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Sorry your defence of Adele made me presume you were a pop fan.

You do come across as very naďve. I am not naďve however, hence why I know the pro writers are doing most of it. You can keep believing they were hired to put the kettle on and make sure the studio door was left secure at night while Adele was busy creating these masterpieces. In the meantime, I am confident in the knowledge that when professional songwriters are enlisted their expertise is made use of in a far greater manner than adding 2 sugars to Adele's cup of tea,

Haha. Okay. Sure

Didn't think you'd be rolling out any facts. Just more of your own opinion.

Your confident in your opinion. You've no evidence to back it up.

At what point did I, or anyone else say these co writers were hired to make tea? Stop twisting people's words to match your agenda.

As I said. Unless you show us evidence of Adele being the tea maker whilst these writers make her hits then I'll go with the facts we do have. And those are that Adele is the co-writer of her songs.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:52
SummerShudder
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Seriously. Look up the word fact. The facts are in the music? Behave.

It's your opinion nothing more.

Hometown Glory is different to every song on 19, which is different to every song on 21.

Your opinion isn't fact.

I ask again, please show us some FACTS. Not 'repeat your opinion'.

No? Didn't think so.

Please feel free to carry on going around in circles repeating your opinion as fact.
My point is it would appear I listen to more music than you do. I can tell when a song has a pro writer involved just by hearing it. Black Magic by Little Mix...I didn't even need to check the credits to know that. You however can't seem to fathom that concept. I listen to a lot of music...I know what sounds like a pro written hit.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:56
SummerShudder
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Of course they do, that isn't what I'm disputing. Hit Me Baby One More Time by Britney and Since U Been Gone by Kelly Clarkson sound completely different. Both were written by Max Martin so did Max Martin not have the biggest contribution in either?

The facts do not lie in the music. The facts lie in you being able to show me that Max Martin wrote more than Adele. That is where the facts lie. If you can't show that, it's fine, just admit it.
They both sound like hits though. That is what Max Martin does...he writes hits. Wouldn't it be a disaster if Katy Perry's lead off single flopped? So who's preventing that from happening? Max Martin. You say I don't give any facts, you just don't want to accept these facts. Do you not think Max Martin has a significant contribution to the success of these artists who use his songs?
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:57
Hollie_Louise
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They both sound like hits though. That is what Max Martin does...he writes hits. Wouldn't it be a disaster if Katy Perry's lead off single flopped? So who's preventing that from happening? Max Martin. You say I don't give any facts, you just don't want to accept these facts. Do you not think Max Martin has a significant contribution to the success of these artists who use his songs?
When did I deny Max Martin has a significant role? Please quote any post of mine where I say those words.
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Old 24-10-2015, 15:58
Lyceum
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My point is it would appear I listen to more music than you do. I can tell when a song has a pro writer involved just by hearing it. Black Magic by Little Mix...I didn't even need to check the credits to know that. You however can't seem to fathom that concept. I listen to a lot of music...I know what sounds like a pro written hit.
Yet more assuming. You have zero idea of how much music I do or don't listen to.

As many people have said. Please share with us this evidence.

I can grasp the concept just fine. You however are unable to grasp the concept that your opinion is not fact.

But we're going around in circles here. Your making some great assumptions and repeatedly passing your opinion of as fact.

Until that changes and you have some evidence to back these up. There really is no debate to be had.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:04
SummerShudder
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Ok you don't believe me: Let's hear from Max Marin himself....

And yet Martin is known to insist that the artists he works with sing his songs exactly the way he sings them on the demos. In a sense, Spears, Perry, and Swift are all singing covers of Max Martin recordings. They are also among the few people in the world who have actually heard the originals. Countless self-proclaimed performers on YouTube sing Max Martin songs, but there is not a single publicly available video or audio recording of Martin performing his own stuff. (In the course of researching my book “The Song Machine,” I got to hear an actual Max Martin demo, for “… Baby One More Time,” when a record man who had it on his phone played it for me. The Swede sounded exactly like Spears.) Martin’s demos are the missing originals of our musical age—the blank space at the center of the past two decades of pop music.

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cul...-is-max-martin
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:09
Hollie_Louise
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That isn't a quote from Max Martin so we haven't heard anything from Max Martin himself lol
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:10
FMKK
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Most of the Beatles tracks are credited to Lennon and McCartney ( I know they wrote alone too but there was also genuine collaboration) same with the Stones and Jagger/Richards. Or look at Elton John's best work. He wrote his songs with Bernie Taupin but no one is going to deny that this makes him a lesser musician. It seems bizarre to me that people don't know and recognise this.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:13
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Again you're making an assumption.

You know nothing of how much Adele did or didn't write. If you do please show us this concrete proof to back up your opinion.

If I hire Gordon Ramsey to cook dinner then yes, he'll do all the work. If Heston Blumental does then no he won't.

You've no idea which category Adele falls in to besides your opinion. Which is just that, an opinion.

The very last thing you're doing is 'keeping it real'.
None of this matters. Adele is a great pop star now. And because she is, she has absolute control of what goes out in her name. Not only the songs, but their production. "25" is going to be a huge success and the one ultimately responsible for all of it is Adele. Just as Taylor Swift has been responsible for hers. The rest is details.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:14
FMKK
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Because people act like she is the greatest thing to ever happen to music. Many of the greatest songs of all time have been written by one person...who also performs it. Hence where the superiority lies.
So in other words, writing alone or in collaboration are equally valid.

I guess the best musicians have to write every single bit of the song alone, play all the instruments, do all the programming, perform all by themselves with no band, stitch all their own outfits and they should probably be serving the pints at the venue as well.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:21
SummerShudder
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So in other words, writing alone or in collaboration are equally valid.

I guess the best musicians have to write every single bit of the song alone, play all the instruments, do all the programming, perform all by themselves with no band, stitch all their own outfits and they should probably be serving the pints at the venue as well.
Hang on...considering all the threads on DS about Adele...you would think she does all that...much ado about nothing. Enjoy X Factor tonight, you might find your next fave artist on there.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:24
SummerShudder
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That isn't a quote from Max Martin so we haven't heard anything from Max Martin himself lol
I guess it's just a coincidence then that all of these artists biggest hits have MM involved. You're right I have no facts...it just must be one big bloody coincidence that all their hits are done by MM.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:25
Hollie_Louise
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Hang on...considering all the threads on DS about Adele...you would think she does all that...much ado about nothing. Enjoy X Factor tonight, you might find your next fave artist on there.
Well you would think that. I'm yet to see a single comment about how Adele writes everything alone or plays all of the instruments. You're really grasping desperately at straws now, it's actually quite depressing to watch.
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:27
SummerShudder
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Haha. Okay. Sure

Didn't think you'd be rolling out any facts. Just more of your own opinion.

Your confident in your opinion. You've no evidence to back it up.

At what point did I, or anyone else say these co writers were hired to make tea? Stop twisting people's words to match your agenda.

As I said. Unless you show us evidence of Adele being the tea maker whilst these writers make her hits then I'll go with the facts we do have. And those are that Adele is the co-writer of her songs.
I apologise. Sorry I wasn't allowed access to the studio so I can find out who wrote what (it's all kept secret...wonder why). I guess I should just swallow whats written on the paper and not think for myself. So in that case I better start believing that Beyoncé writes and doesn't buy credits...mhahahahah...that will be the day...!
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Old 24-10-2015, 16:28
Hollie_Louise
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I guess it's just a coincidence then that all of these artists biggest hits have MM involved. You're right I have no facts...it just must be one big bloody coincidence that all their hits are done by MM.
You're writing words that have nothing to do with what I've asked.

If you can't provide that proof, just say. You're giving an opinion, just say that. You've provided what you said was Max Martin's own words when it wasn't his own words.
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