Harsh but true.

'They are calling her the best musician ever'. That was one poster from what I read.

Hollie you think Mariah Carey is an expert in music. You think the more famous you are the better you are. That implies you are celebrity driven.

You name drop LA Reid and Clive Davis and you think you are going to stomp me?

Do you know who Rick Rubin is?

I am more than happy to debate with you but you need to step it up.

Yes I know who Rick Rubin is. And I'll ask again, stop attributing things to me that I haven't said. You say I need to step it up yet you're the one making things up.

Me too. Cept I wouldn't buy a Paramore album cause they're shite. I like a range of music but I'm perfectly comfortable to listen to chart songs if I enjoy them too, rather than the desperate 'credz' posturing.

"Ain't It Fun"... Grammy Award for Best Rock Song. Written by Hayley Williams and Taylor York (Who are they? Oh they're in Paramore). Paramore isn't crap my friend.

I am comfortable listening to chart music (so long as no one else can hear me listening to it) but I don't start worshiping the singer because they were lucky enough to be offered a track by Max Martin.

the bands you have listed are all mainstream bands - most people with a modicum of muscial knowledge will have heard of them, tonight tongiht and bullet with butterfly wings are two of my favourite songs , calfornication and one hot minute are great albums, i enjoy john fruiscantes solo stuff particularly "going inside" from " To Record Only Water for Ten Days", i dont mind sugar were going down but thats the only fallout boy song I can stand, silversun pickups are a pale reflection of the american alternative scene from the decade before and the deftones are nu metal crap - good enough for you

you seem to think the mainstream bands you have listed are somehow niche, so i doubt it

Ok you are not as bad as I thought you were. But Deftones are not nu metal crap. Koi No Yokan is a masterpiece. Listen to Tempest...that will knock your socks off.

Fall Out Boy's new stuff is better. They are making better pop music than anybody else.

Silversun Pickups - nothing pale about them....they are quality.

in your opinion you mean, i'll give you baby one more time,

heres a list of the biggest pop songs of the last 20 years -candle in the wind 97 rolling in the deep, party rock anthem, i gotta feeling, somebody i used to know, blurred lines, just dance , poker face, call me maybe, thats done by sales a more accurate measure than your "ive decided these are the biggest songs" measuring criteria

Lol! You research and listen to a lot of music (and clearly you have to be middle aged), so you are the resident expert with opinions here at DS.
I have seen pretty much every band or artist you have mentioned live. Who the hell doesn't know Ben Howard or Rick Rubin? I saw BH years ago at a pub. Wait... does that make him a pub singer?! Uh oh. Better strike him off your list.
Rick Rubin is a legend in the music industry. Were you being sarcastic there? Everyone knows him.
What's you point again? Paramore? Seriously? That's what you've got? I've been seeing them live for ten years. They put on a good show and Hayley Williams is extremely cool in person. That's about it. Silver Sun Pickups? Fallout Boy? They are middle of the road. and that's me being generous. I went to the bathroom during Silver Sun Pickups set. I can handle maybe two songs in a row from them. Tom Morello from Rage Against the machine and Audioslave? I love Chris Cornell but that's just damn random. I imagine that was what you are trying for. A 50 year old guitarist to show that you're a musical insider.
Get back to us when you start mentioning interesting music.

I Want It That Way and B1MT kick started the modern era of pop music. They were Max Martin's earliest work...since then he has dominated pop music. Sales were higher back in those days.

I Got A Feeling? No chance...not even entertaining that one.

Rolling In the Deep...not a pop song.

Somebody I Used to Know - 1 hit wonder whiney nonsense...also not pop.

Candle in the Wind - Novelty song re-recorded - how is this even eligible?

Blurred Lines - a flash in the pan, he got sued, divorced and where is he now? No ones playing the song and no one's talking about it.

Poker Face and Call Me Maybe - 10 a penny...there are many tracks in that vein now and back then.

They actually weren't Max Martin's earliest work. Just throw that fact out there.

I am middle aged? I'll be whatever age you want me to be if it makes you feel superior to me.

A lot of people don't know who Rick Rubin is...

You saw BH years ago? Good for you...I have also seen a few celebs too...wanna get into a debate about that?

It's Silversun... I don't care how many songs you can stand of them...a lot of people don't have a high patience for music...it's called being a casual music listener..congrats on being that. Hope you had a good pee by the way...obviously very passionate about music...too busy getting drunk at the gig.

It's Fall Out. And middle of the road? I think that's the Foo Fighters you're thinking of...they both start with F though so kudos for that. Save Rock N Roll was the most exciting album released in 2013...not sure what's so middle of the road about that?

Chris Cornell cannot sing to save his life. Tom Morello however is a genius...which is kind of the point I was trying to make.

I take it you like the other artists I mentioned that you didn't comment on?

this thread is quite funny but it's not going anywhere. We know people like different things, but what this thread needs now are some attempts to prove that someone is better than someone else...and sales statistics or who you've seen live aint gonna do it.

off you go then

Actually no. There were many more, just didn't want to make the post too long. GL, I write concert reviews (remember my one for TS? ) and I see a lot of music every year. The people you list show how very little you know about the industry. Throwing Florence out there in the mix doesnt save you. That was one I do like.

Fiona Apple is better than Adele because:

She writes ALL of her music and lyrics.
She plays piano while singing live.
Her lyrics are more wordy.
Her music is more experimental.
Criminal is just as catchy as Rolling In The Deep.
Her albums titles are slightly more imaginative.
There's more to her sound...it's not all about vocals.
She is admired by Quentin Tarantino, meanwhile Adele is admired by James Corden.
She's not from Tottenham.

Over to you Adele fans...

Hey Joe
All threads, aside from chart analysis, are obviously subjective. No proof needed with an opinion. And that's what we have going on here. Just talk.
But when you throw in crazy ramblings and nonsensical posts, it makes for a really good time! I've missed GL a lot. And I mean that sincerely. She was a very dedicated fan for TS. Lol.

I am not GL...that joke got old a while ago. You write concert reviews while peeing in the toilet? You must be a woman if you can multi task like that...

So now Florence isn't mainstream? Fall Out Boy is no more mainstream than Florence.

I know very little? Have you head of any of these: Best Coast, Kitten, Sky Ferreira...quick run to google

I think you should be running to check google if you think Max Martin's earliest work was with the Backstreet Boys and Britney

I take it you're referring to your own posts? You sound like you've been drinking. I however, am very articulate, I think even my biggest critics would give me that one.

Those were his first landmark hits which is relevant to the post I made. Yeah I know he worked on Ace of Bass too...I'm talking about the modern pop era.

I have listened to some of her songs and she does nothing for me I'm afraid and obviously quite a few others agree with me.

Maybe she should get some help from Max Martin?

You didn't say that though, you said it was his earliest work.

Fiona Apple is bat ass crazy. Lol. Not a bad quality in an artist. She has an interesting voice but middle of the road at best here again. Interesting, she didn't say a word to the crowd during her whole set. She was really into her music or she was really high. You know how it is with those creative types. There are dozens of similar female singers playing pubs across LA most nights. Although most of them aren't spasming on stage and beating themselves with a drumstick and collapsing to the stage.
For stage dominance, Kitten is so much better than Fiona. Wait... did you mention Kitten in your ramblings? Kitten is in fact a very awesome band. I highly recommend their show.