If you go to learn any dance you are not taught lifts, as far as I know . They are just put in as an extra on SCD by the pros and usually as a time filler . So it was ridiculous of Craig having a go at Georgia over lifts .

I just hope the judges do not deduct marks for less then perfect lifts .

If you're going to perform a lift then it should be elegant and graceful so I'm cool with them critiquing lifts.

Then they should criticise the pros . Celebs usually hate having to do lifts .

We are dealing with beginners who have enough to remember in any dance without extra lifts .

Let them put in lifts but they should not be deducted any marks for imperfect lifts .

The pros put in lifts so that they get the public vote. If that means that they lose the judges votes then so be it.

The judges should mark what they see in front of them, and also what they don't see in front of them (if they should have seen it). Why should lifts that they haven't done before be judged any differently to steps or dances they haven't done before?

If you do difficult lifts well, you get better marks. If you do difficult lifts badly you lose marks. If you do easy lifts or no lifts in a dance where lifts are expected, you also lose marks, but as many as if you made mistakes? There's the question!

It's also a bit like diving - the mark you get is a combination of how difficult was what you attempted and how well did you carry it off. And that's the balance the pros have to try and strike. Mistakes lose you marks, but so do dances with little content. but the public might not see the lack of content but may be more likely to see a mistake. Difficult decisions. ..

The judges are obviously following a script how to be set by the production team. Their paying the judges to be a certain way to get ratings up, wouldn't surprise me if there's a slight bit of tension between the judges and the big boss as if it were. It's like louise rainbow is right if you see what I mean.

CRH I think like the rest of the judges were having a bad day really.

Those over the head lifts are not part of any dance . They are dangerous , especially for beginners, and should not be allowed . If two pros want to do them they know the score, but they should not be allowed in SCD dances when we have beginners participating . They have enough already to contend with .

I think BBC are giving georgia a bad edit like she and giovanni aren't really a couple. The editors need to edit fairer, instead of editing who they think makes good tv well.

Precisely.

I think it's fair enough to criticise Georgia's performance of the lifts but perhaps Giovanni should have also been criticised for keeping them in the dance?

Like a lot of stuff on Strictly, I'm always intrigued to know how much is down to the pro as choreographer and how much the producers.

Lifts are seen as "crowd pleasers" and have come to be expected in a few SCD dances because the dance isn't a 10-dance/doesn't bear any or much resemblance to the real thing and so needs something to distinguish it from one of the others - so based on the average Strictly standard, a salsa without lifts would look like a bounceless samba, an AS without lifts would just be a foxtrot etc.

I don't know how much pressure Giovanni would have been under to produce a "spectacular" salsa and/or how much pressure he put himself under to include some snazzy lifts in order to grab some votes. But bearing in mind his shoulder was popping out of its joint in training, I'm not surprised Georgia was hesitant going into each lift...she was probably terrified of causing him some lasting damage.

I think that was the case.

If the pro dancers put lifts in their routine then that inevitably means that they are teaching their celeb how to do that lift as part of that routine. That being so, the lifts are fair game for any critique that the judges want to make.

If lifts form part of the dance, well, yes they have to be judged on them too. You can't very well only mark and critique part of the dance.....
If the lifts are not good or well rehearsed, the pro should leave them out. Show what you can do, not what you can't.

exactly! there is nothing to say that the pro HAS to put lifts in the salsa or the American Smooth or the Charleston - they can quite easily be done without them if the celeb is struggling or not doing them well enough

Yes, there have been a few cases in the past of AS/salsa/charleston without lifts. They're allowed in certain dances, but are not compulsory, as I understand it. So if the pro opts to put/keep them in, I can't think if any valid reason for the lifts to be exempt from the judging process or the overall mark.

The celebs have their own voices though and are within their right to refuse to do certain lifts. If Georgia really didn't want to do those lifts then she should have asked Giovanni to choreograph different ones that she felt more comfortable with. I'm sure that others have in the past (IIRC Sophie EB said that she wouldn't do certain lifts)

Stick to the dancing rules...not problems then.

If the lifts are there, they should be critiqued on them, but so should the pro if they haven't recognised if the lifts are beyond their celebs capabilities of carrying out the lift with style.

In the case of Both Georgia and Katie the transitions were messy, of course the pro should teach them how to transition, but I don't see a problem with critiquing it in the same way the judges would tell them off for a non pointed toe regardless of whether a pro noticed it during training.

With regards to Georgia, I loved the routine but I could see the scrappy transitions. Having said that once in position she held the Dirty Dancing lift beautifully.

Lifts are allowed in some dances, if they are there their quality will be judged. No lifts = less spectacular dance, less public interest. So less than a perfect lift means fewer points from the judges, but potentially more votes from the public that does not really care if it was 100% correct.

Be realistic Paace, the judges - and more importantly the public - are bound to be impressed by a clean, impressive lift. A safe, secure and high lift (Louis Smith/Flavia Cacace) is always going to get more points than a wobbly one where panic flashes across the face of the liftee (Gavin Henson/Katya Virshilas).