[moox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Honestly it could mean EE get easier mast planning permissions as they surely could say it was for emergency services even if consumers will benefit as well.

Or am I totally wrong there ?

Not an expert by any means, but I have heard that the reason why the public operators can't use Network Rail's masts is because their addition would mean NR having to seek permission for the whole lot, allowing the NIMBYs to weigh in and derail it (pun not intended)

I wonder if that's why Airwave was never commercialised (surely it's possible to give the emergency services ultimate priority?) as it's an expensive network to run and I'm sure quite a few businesses (or even consumers, as was the case with Nextel in the US) would have appreciated the service it can provide

[enapace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Not an expert by any means, but I have heard that the reason why the public operators can't use Network Rail's masts is because their addition would mean NR having to seek permission for the whole lot, allowing the NIMBYs to weigh in and derail it (pun not intended)

I wonder if that's why Airwave was never commercialised (surely it's possible to give the emergency services ultimate priority?) as it's an expensive network to run and I'm sure quite a few businesses (or even consumers, as was the case with Nextel in the US) would have appreciated the service it can provide

True but surely a Emergency Services network is just as critical as Network Rail. I don't know how it's going be handled but I can't see 1800MHz being good enough in a lot of parts of cities.

[moox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

True but surely a Emergency Services network is just as critical as Network Rail. I don't know how it's going be handled but I can't see 1800MHz being good enough in a lot of parts of cities.

Assuming that there is a planning issue if they let the public on it, couldn't they just put up a load of "emergency services only" cells to get around it

[lightspeed2398]

As I recall Network Rail have permission under the GDPO (this may be wrong someone correct me if so please) to be exempt for the purpose of railways only, they can't just do what they like, as such allowing other operators would probably take them outside of that definition.

Network Rail's Incident Management Team do have access to the Airwave spectrum to communicate with the required people in the event of a major incident.

Ofcom will only give a licence to emergency services to use the spectrum, no idea why but it isn't very big and has been congested during emergency incidents.

TFL have their licence to run 'Connect' which is about 300 underground base stations, I wonder if they could be upgraded and integrated with a new LTE network.

It should also be noted that there is LTE450, could airwave's spectrum be reassigned for that?

[enapace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Assuming that there is a planning issue if they let the public on it, couldn't they just put up a load of "emergency services only" cells to get around it

True they certainly could so whatever happens some of those mast idiots will get annoyed. Though would seem weird surely to transmit a signal that any phone could pick up but not have access to lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

As I recall Network Rail have permission under the GDPO (this may be wrong someone correct me if so please) to be exempt for the purpose of railways only, they can't just do what they like, as such allowing other operators would probably take them outside of that definition.

Network Rail's Incident Management Team do have access to the Airwave spectrum to communicate with the required people in the event of a major incident.

Ofcom will only give a licence to emergency services to use the spectrum, no idea why but it isn't very big and has been congested during emergency incidents.

TFL have their licence to run 'Connect' which is about 300 underground base stations, I wonder if they could be upgraded and integrated with a new LTE network.

It should also be noted that there is LTE450, could airwave's spectrum be reassigned for that?

Ah thanks for that info appreciate it about network rail and TFL.

In regards to Airwave spectrum being refarmed it's not happening government has said they not building a private network which they would be doing if they were doing that.

Plus the new system would have be in place and running before Airwave is shut down and government says there is no available spectrum. Which is why it was opened up to Commerical networks I believe.

[lightspeed2398]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

As I recall Network Rail have permission under the GDPO (this may be wrong someone correct me if so please) to be exempt for the purpose of railways only, they can't just do what they like, as such allowing other operators would probably take them outside of that definition.

Network Rail's Incident Management Team do have access to the Airwave spectrum to communicate with the required people in the event of a major incident.

Ofcom will only give a licence to emergency services to use the spectrum, no idea why but it isn't very big and has been congested during emergency incidents.

TFL have their licence to run 'Connect' which is about 300 underground base stations, I wonder if they could be upgraded and integrated with a new LTE network.

It should also be noted that there is LTE450, could airwave's spectrum be reassigned for that?

Just to add to that there is also MTPAS for absolute emergencies. I do know where I am of a couple of people who have the SIMs I think or something similar but they are like gold dust to obtain. Might try and find out exactly what you have to do to get them.

[moox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Ofcom will only give a licence to emergency services to use the spectrum, no idea why but it isn't very big and has been congested during emergency incidents.

What ever happened with the spectrum that was owned by Dolphin/Inquam? That was apparently enough to run a commercial service (if anyone actually signed up)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

TFL have their licence to run 'Connect' which is about 300 underground base stations, I wonder if they could be upgraded and integrated with a new LTE network.

Speculating, but I'd guess they have bigger issues like having to deploy a new network underground, obtain LTE train radios and such. I'd have thought that if they wanted to build another network they'd want to harmonise with Network Rail and go GSM-R

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

It should also be noted that there is LTE450, could airwave's spectrum be reassigned for that?

That would need new equipment, new antennas and such, no? Then you'd have to wonder why EE needs to be involved at all - it could just be run like Airwave is now

I assume one of the attractions of farming it out to EE and LTE is that cheaper, commodity equipment can be used (not everyone needs a ruggedised police radio) and running costs can be subsidised by public users

[Gigabit]

What will happen to the existing Airwave sites?

[enapace]

From what I understand and reason most thought until June that O2 was going win contract. Is that it will use the commerical networks that we use but have the ultimate priority before the 90% obligation was made legal. There was two separate lots up for grabs one for normal areas and second for extremely rural ones.

[highfrequency]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Honestly it could mean EE get easier mast planning permissions as they surely could say it was for emergency services even if consumers will benefit as well.

Or am I totally wrong there ?

Yeah I remember reading about that the PSN I believe they calling it was funded by the AWS-3 auction that recently happened.

Agreed airwave was never the best technology.

Well it's not entirely impossible to put a mobile network on the London Underground Huawei were willing do back in 2008 and had outlined a plan but it didnt go ahead because of Chinese links.

TETRA was the best radio technology available at the time for the Police, and probably still is.

The only issue is that it's just so expensive to maintain and now Airwave have paid for the equipment, it's making them a decent return and costing the government.

Coverage wise, EE is going to have to build out a lot more 800MHz rural sites to even come close to the coverage Airwave has on 380MHz. They struggle in some areas with 10W vehicle radios!

Then there's group calling over LTE (the main way the Emergency services communicate) and I believe there's been no successful implementation of it yet and no standards set.

Also interesting that BT are now involved again after their bid was denied early on in the short listing!

[clewsy]

It makes sense as then you can just do deals to buy standard kit, in bulk at discount rates. Also your GPS tracking, phones, live data can all go through the same place.

Does mean that EE will have to upgrade loads more sites still yet. This will be interesting as they seem to have slowed down since 3 talked about buying o2.

[david16]

What consequences does This BT/EE merger have regarding Virgin's MVNO under the EE network?

[david16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Yes this was always going to happen, its the other deal that you can't see happening between 3 and o2.

But did anybody see it coming before the Orange/T Mobile merger though?

I don't know why the Orange and T Mobile merger was allowed i.e. to create EE --> BT?

BT being the dominant MNO is a total disaster for consumer choice. Can anybody really see BT not trying to buy over O2 and Vodafone with full intent to totally decimate the competitive mobile market.

[clewsy]

There were 4 networks still and the argument was that 4 still kept it competitive. That was why it was deemed to be OK on the market.

Clearly three players in the market is not good. Yes having BT makes it even worse as they are going to be after bundling stuff together and offering deals for doing that.

[d123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by david16

What consequences does This BT/EE merger have regarding Virgin's MVNO under the EE network?

I would suspect the same impact as when T-Mobile and Orange merged to become EE.