Hi all, we've just come back from a two weeks' holiday at the in-laws' farm where there were 5 dogs the oldest being 10 years and youngest being 3 months. Our dog, a German shepherd, is now almost 16 months old and is a whole dog. He is well socialised and has not a mean bone in him. He has been 'attacked' by other dogs we meet at the park so has learnt to avoid those that don't want to play with him whilst with the friendly ones he runs joyfully up to them to invite a game with him.

Before this holiday, he has never growled or grunted or barked during play. However during this holiday he's learnt to do all that as part of the 'play' from the other dogs who I think having grown up in a pack, are quite vocal. There was no aggression but both the other dogs and my dog seem to vocalise their play a lot more: mostly they growl at each other when the other get distracted by other things or they want to stop but the other doesn't. The play then resumes or not but no one gets aggressive or hurt.

He is pretty good on recall, although it's not immediate, he does come back or stop whatever he's doing fairly quickly like within a couple of minutes usually. But I worry about his growling during play. He doesn't growl at the beginning of the meet but he starts if the other dog, having begun to play, stops playing with him lol. He doesn't growl when they greet nor does he growl at dogs who are immediately not keen - so only with those who start to play and then stop before they've had a good run. It's almost as if he voices his disappointment that they started playing with him but for some reason they don't know that he want them to chase him and he's calling them to chase.

We've come back home and he is now growling and barking at the dogs he meets in the park. Some don't know how to react and submits with their belly up and he then just stands over them waiting and growling and sometimes grabbing them around their scruff, never hard, and letting go. It looks like he's dominating them. His growls can be scary and plus his size and breed appearance I now worry about frightening other owners. Or worse he's learning to dominate? Or a misread cue can quickly escalate into something bad.

I suppose the best thing to do is to recall him from those dogs but I have seen situations where they then go on to have a happy game of chase and both dogs come away satiated and happy. I just want him to stop with the growling during play or is that asking too much ....

Is it certain dogs or all dogs he seems to react to?

He's still young so the boisterousness sounds normal, but I do suspect he has "learned" to be more vocal from those other dogs.

I'd suggest you try to avoid those loud barking dogs and take your walks in the park with other quieter types if you can or go to another park as once one starts they all start and compete for superiority.


One last thing -(not sure if I believe in the concept myself!) but another owner (who is also an experiencing breeder) suggested my dog maybe slightly autistic after observing her lack of interest in socializing with other dogs. She's not afraid of them, says hello but then would rather play with her ball or with people instead. whilst in the park with the usual dog walker gang).

As I said, my views on autism are rather controversial so I won't state them here, but the behavioral traits associated with it are things that can be resolved with simple, especially for younger dogs.

Probably best to speak to your vet (try to grab their attention when you next go for boosters shots or something - so they son't charge you for the advice!) or a German Sheppard form, they are a complex and special breed like them all.

Have to caveat this that it’s always difficult to see/know what’s really going on over a remote forum.

But I’m not sure you really need to. Growling, teeth baring and snapping and play nipping and mouthing each other are perfectly healthy and normal aspects of canine play. What they are basically doing is acting out role-play. You may see them take turns to be chaser or chasee, or aggressor or agressee and play-fighting and wrestling. These are actually the only outlets a dog really has to engage in play.
Think of it just like how kids like to play fight.

How do you know this is just safe normal play? Well there is a fine line, but :
1] Before play initiates there should be a play bow and/or play dance. This is an invitation to play, and makes clear to both dogs “hey, whatever happens next, we’re just playing right?”
2] You should also see the play grin from both dogs, when they take a pause, soft eyes, relaxed bodies and a goofy face usually with the mouth half open and tongue hanging out. And further play-bows interspersed during play.
3] Just as with kids play fighting, sometimes one can go too far, without intent. So if one dog accidentally hurts or nips the other, you should see another play bow, they are saying again “hey, sorry about that, you know we were just playing right!?”
4] If one dog wants to stop playing or create some distance, a well-adjusted dog will recognize this and give them some space.
5] Watching if they go back for more is a hugely positive sign that both dogs are quite happy with the situation

So it’s important to look out for the play bows, play dance and play grin, and just make sure that if one dog has had enough or becomes unsure, that they are given their space. Escalation can occur if one dog wants some space or has had enough and the other dog isn’t respecting that. So if you see one dog disengage but yours doesn’t, that would be a good point to recall I would say. If you recall during play you may find the other dog follows thinking it’s a game of chase.

The success of the interaction will all depend if both dogs are well socialised and have had lots of play and canine interaction to develop and learn their social and communication skills. You need two well balanced dogs for this really. These skills can easily be broken through:

A] Inadequate socialisation and interaction with other dogs or lack of play opportunities/experience
B] A dog that had a traumatic experience or maybe being attacked by another – of course that will change their whole outlook.
C] A dog broken by their owner who constantly interrupts or reprimands their dog for these very natural processes of two dogs communicating – a very dangerous thing to to interfere with!
D] Age – dogs become less dog-tolerant, less-socialable and lose all interest in play as they get older. Some breeds are less tolerant or other dogs and play also. Terriers especially!

I have encouraged my Labrador to play with other dogs since day 1. She will play as rough as the other dog is up for. It’s a minority but maybe 1 in 10, the other dogs owner gets scared about what they are seeing. That’s just poor knowledge on their part. 9/10 owners we meet know what’s what and agree “yeah they’re just playing”. She has so much play experience I just leave her to it, with complete trust in her social skills.

Sometimes my girl does scare them away, maybe a bit too full-on for them or the other dog just isn’t used to it. That doesn’t bother me at all, they just weren’t the best matched play mates, so what.

Back in the summer I dog sat a friends GSD for a weekend. When they were playing in the garden I mean wow, the noises they were making, the neighbors must have thought they were killing each other. But nothing of the sort. Never a scratch on them, and they both always kept going back for more. There was nothing to worry about at all. They were loving it!

Finally, with regard to the dominance you speak of where he stands over another dog and they submit etc. Again, this perfectly normal! When any two dogs meet they use those gestures to decide who’s wearing the trousers in this meeting. Submission is healthy, very, the other dog is just saying sure OK I accept your dominance. Or they may agree that are equals. If both party is equally dominate and neither backs down then yes that can escalate, but then it’s unlikely to develop into play anyway.

TBH I would be more worried about recall than the normal play growling you seem to be describing. 2 minute recall is a heck of a long time if he has approached the wrong dog ! Couple of my late pooches could have an ear off in less than that time. And if it took you 2 minutes to get him back from my two now you would find a furious woman waving a stick at him and you as I will not have mine terrified by other dogs when they are not interested in playing with other dogs.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions, especially jaycee331.

Our dog just got another bite two days ago, resulting in a cut above his eye. The other dog was an older female who was getting nosy around me as I had some treats on me. So he tried to get in her way (not in an aggressive way at all) but instead got bit. He yelped and jumped away. It was all over in a tick. He is a bit of a wuss I guess, but I'm glad it did not develop into something worse. Like I said, he's been attacked more than a few times and so far he's come away with some nicks and bites and once he fell into the lake when a big Rhodesian Ridgeback ran at him. He's not drawn blood as far as I know.

Anyways, he does show the play bows invites etc, and usually he knows from the stance of the other if they were going to play with him so no problems there. In fact he often bounces about like bambi which makes everyone laugh as he's a big GSD.

It's not so much the dogs' interactions I'm worried about when my dog growls during play it's really other people's reaction that I worry about. It's mostly women with usually their first dogs, often young puppies, who on seeing my dog show fear and it gets worse when he gets excited and starts being vocal. I have met many who tell me that they're just playing or that the dogs will sort it out themselves. Those are cool and they are not the ones I'm thinking of. The other ones who get frightened by my dog also tend to have dogs who are not so well socialised so they would either squeal when they see the big GSD running up to them or they come up and then get scared so their owners become protective.

I just think it's a shame that my dog who was previously not so growlly or loud has become so so that some less experienced owners are frightened. Usually if the other owners were more experienced they tell me not to worry and they actually say they can tell from his eyes, ears and tongue positions and his relax body and tail that he is a friendly dog and that I should relax. He is only scary to people who only see his breed appearance. I think I am always watching out because there are many smaller dogs about and I know his boisterousness and sheer heaviness could hurt a young or small dog through exuberant play - heavy pawing could hurt. I watch and would call out 'gently' and he would then slow down and with dogs who are either very small or old he will actually be gentle and stand around waiting for them but not in a dominating or threatening aggressive manner.

Finally yes I agree that recall can be an issue here but when I quoted two minutes it was usually when he's still playing with another dog and I have to go, so I'm actually walking away from them but the other dog comes after him for more play. If we're just walking and he's sniffing about yes he comes within 10-15 seonds.
Last edited by midsummernight : 01-11-2015 at 02:51