If four couples tied on the same score they will each get maximum points which is fair enough but the couple finishing fifth only gets one point less. Other than simplicity there are no pluses to this marking system. It gives an advantage to the poorer dancers and more weight to the popularity vote as opposed to dancing ability.
Should The Scoring System Be Changed?
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No they definitely shouldn't change it.
This system has been forged to be the fairest after sorting lots of problems - Series 6
It really doesn't matter what specific mark each judge gives - it's the order that matters.
The system is designed that a celebrity can be saved from the dance-off if they get the most public votes - no matter what the judges score.
This system has been forged to be the fairest after sorting lots of problems - Series 6
It really doesn't matter what specific mark each judge gives - it's the order that matters.
The system is designed that a celebrity can be saved from the dance-off if they get the most public votes - no matter what the judges score.
Originally Posted by StigOfTheKrump:
“...are you familiar with the events of the series 6 semi-final?”
“...are you familiar with the events of the series 6 semi-final?”
Don't go there, it's still raw.
Call me an idiot but to this day and age I still haven't understood what kind of hocus pocus they did in order to shoehorn Tom Chambers into the final. You'd need a degree in maths to get all that.
Originally Posted by VicsMum:
“Don't go there, it's still raw.
Call me an idiot but to this day and age I still haven't understood what kind of hocus pocus they did in order to shoehorn Tom Chambers into the final. You'd need a degree in maths to get all that.”
“Don't go there, it's still raw.
Call me an idiot but to this day and age I still haven't understood what kind of hocus pocus they did in order to shoehorn Tom Chambers into the final. You'd need a degree in maths to get all that.”
They were shoehorning Lisa & Rachel in, Tom was just collateral fallout.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“They were shoehorning Lisa & Rachel in, Tom was just collateral fallout.”
“They were shoehorning Lisa & Rachel in, Tom was just collateral fallout.”
Yep. This.
It was obvious the minute that Lisa and Rachel were tied, meaning no way for Tom to avoid the dance off that the Powers that Be in Strictly Towers were in for a long night.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“They were shoehorning Lisa & Rachel in, Tom was just collateral fallout.”
“They were shoehorning Lisa & Rachel in, Tom was just collateral fallout.”
See? I still don't get it, it's still all a blur... *runs and hides behind the sofa*
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“If four couples tied on the same score they will each get maximum points which is fair enough but the couple finishing fifth only gets one point less. Other than simplicity there are no pluses to this marking system. It gives an advantage to the poorer dancers and more weight to the popularity vote as opposed to dancing ability.”
“If four couples tied on the same score they will each get maximum points which is fair enough but the couple finishing fifth only gets one point less. Other than simplicity there are no pluses to this marking system. It gives an advantage to the poorer dancers and more weight to the popularity vote as opposed to dancing ability.”
No they very definitely shouldn't change it.
Originally Posted by VicsMum:
“See? I still don't get it, it's still all a blur... *runs and hides behind the sofa*”
“See? I still don't get it, it's still all a blur... *runs and hides behind the sofa*”
Basically, Tom couldn't be saved from the dance off - despite viewers being urged to phone and vote to save your favourite from the dance off
. Even topping the public vote wouldn't have been enough. Given the wibbles that were about at that time about phone votes in general - a hasty solution had to be found.
Originally Posted by aggs:
“Yep. This.
It was obvious the minute that Lisa and Rachel were tied, meaning no way for Tom to avoid the dance off that the Powers that Be in Strictly Towers were in for a long night.”
“Yep. This.
It was obvious the minute that Lisa and Rachel were tied, meaning no way for Tom to avoid the dance off that the Powers that Be in Strictly Towers were in for a long night.”
Sure but I think we're neglecting to mention that then for the final they added the public vote from the semi final to the judges score from the semi final to the judges score from the final to make one ranking score between 1 and 3 and then added THAT to the public vote score from the final to determine the first boot from the final. Really accessible and easy to understand.
Like I've said in various other threads of there not being a casting vote for the d/o anymore and for it to go to a deadlock situation. That would make SCD fairer. Reason why I've said that is pixie and Jake shouldn't have been sent home by len, when they were clearly better. It pisses me off when SCD isn't run as well as it should. 
Originally Posted by VicsMum:
“Don't go there, it's still raw.
Call me an idiot but to this day and age I still haven't understood what kind of hocus pocus they did in order to shoehorn Tom Chambers into the final. You'd need a degree in maths to get all that.”
“Don't go there, it's still raw.
Call me an idiot but to this day and age I still haven't understood what kind of hocus pocus they did in order to shoehorn Tom Chambers into the final. You'd need a degree in maths to get all that.”
They (especially Len) made the tie happen, which put a bomb under the old system. One of the reasons I quit Strictly for a few series (rigging supreme).
We shouldn't have a dance off - the couple with the lowest combined score should go without the nonsense of having to dance again.
It's always blatantly obvious who the judges are going to save and although the dance off was brought in to stop "shock" eliminations, the duffers and those at the bottom of the leaderboard escape it more often than not because they pull in the public votes!
And let's face it - the judges aren't above delivering a daft result to save a production favourite (Gabby Logan, Pixie, Jake......)
It's always blatantly obvious who the judges are going to save and although the dance off was brought in to stop "shock" eliminations, the duffers and those at the bottom of the leaderboard escape it more often than not because they pull in the public votes!
And let's face it - the judges aren't above delivering a daft result to save a production favourite (Gabby Logan, Pixie, Jake......)
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Sure but I think we're neglecting to mention that then for the final they added the public vote from the semi final to the judges score from the semi final to the judges score from the final to make one ranking score between 1 and 3 and then added THAT to the public vote score from the final to determine the first boot from the final. Really accessible and easy to understand.”
“Sure but I think we're neglecting to mention that then for the final they added the public vote from the semi final to the judges score from the semi final to the judges score from the final to make one ranking score between 1 and 3 and then added THAT to the public vote score from the final to determine the first boot from the final. Really accessible and easy to understand.”
Well, it was a long night and they had lots of numbers to play with
OK, help me here (please be kind because I'm horrible at maths, hate it, actually):
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?
Originally Posted by VicsMum:
“OK, help me here (please be kind because I'm horrible at maths, hate it, actually):
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?”
“OK, help me here (please be kind because I'm horrible at maths, hate it, actually):
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?”
They do the same for the public voting as they do for the Judges' voting, i.e rank them in order, then add those places together.
So if someone comes top out of 10 with the Judges they get 10 points. If they came top out of 10 with the public, they'd also get 10 points giving a total of 20 and the maximum score.
The points the Judges' give out isn't the important bit, it's where they place a couple on the leader board which counts.
I think the judges are always going to use their power to place couples no matter the scoring system. They can create leader board ties which voters can not realistically ever do.
Originally Posted by VicsMum:
“OK, help me here (please be kind because I'm horrible at maths, hate it, actually):
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?”
“OK, help me here (please be kind because I'm horrible at maths, hate it, actually):
How do they combine public vote AND judges scoring? I was looking at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/strictlyc...9-a5f611cf0e09 and thinking how come you can combine , let's say, Helen and Aljaz 12 points awarded by the judges with the number of public votes they got?”
The problem with Lisa/Rachel/Tom semi final was they tied Lisa and Rachel at top of leaderboard on 3 points each. Back then Tom got 1 point, not 2 like he'd get now so there is no way he could avoid the dance off because even if he topped the public vote he'd get 3 points from public & 1 from judges, so vote looked like
Rachel 3 from judges 2 from public = 5
Lisa 3 from judges 1 from public = 4
Tom 1 from judges 3 from public = 4
And the judges would obviously choose Lisa in a dance off as she'd topped the leaderboard, so they put all three through to the final and now person below ties get 1 less not 2 less points.
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“If four couples tied on the same score they will each get maximum points which is fair enough but the couple finishing fifth only gets one point less. Other than simplicity there are no pluses to this marking system. It gives an advantage to the poorer dancers and more weight to the popularity vote as opposed to dancing ability.”
“If four couples tied on the same score they will each get maximum points which is fair enough but the couple finishing fifth only gets one point less. Other than simplicity there are no pluses to this marking system. It gives an advantage to the poorer dancers and more weight to the popularity vote as opposed to dancing ability.”
Totally agree with you. We have to use a system that gives equal weighting for both Judges score and Public votes. Losing Tom in series 6 is not a good argument to follow an incorrect method.
Originally Posted by Sarah777:
“Totally agree with you. We have to use a system that gives equal weighting for both Judges score and Public votes. Losing Tom in series 6 is not a good argument to follow an incorrect method.”
“Totally agree with you. We have to use a system that gives equal weighting for both Judges score and Public votes. Losing Tom in series 6 is not a good argument to follow an incorrect method.”
They do use a system which gives an equal weighting.
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“They do use a system which gives an equal weighting.”
“They do use a system which gives an equal weighting.”
They say it and the tied tables will not give equal weighting. I am sure public votes are very very rarely going to be tied, so last week 12 couples left top would get 12 and bottom would get 1. Where as with the judges scores always tied the top got 12 and the bottom got 5. How is that equally weighted?. It's biased towards judges scoring.
Originally Posted by Sarah777:
“Totally agree with you. We have to use a system that gives equal weighting for both Judges score and Public votes. Losing Tom in series 6 is not a good argument to follow an incorrect method.”
“Totally agree with you. We have to use a system that gives equal weighting for both Judges score and Public votes. Losing Tom in series 6 is not a good argument to follow an incorrect method.”
The argument is that people pay to vote for their favourite and the public's favourite should be able to avoid a dance off at all times. The way they score now means that happens.
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“They do the same for the public voting as they do for the Judges' voting, i.e rank them in order, then add those places together.
So if someone comes top out of 10 with the Judges they get 10 points. If they came top out of 10 with the public, they'd also get 10 points giving a total of 20 and the maximum score.
The points the Judges' give out isn't the important bit, it's where they place a couple on the leader board which counts.”
“They do the same for the public voting as they do for the Judges' voting, i.e rank them in order, then add those places together.
So if someone comes top out of 10 with the Judges they get 10 points. If they came top out of 10 with the public, they'd also get 10 points giving a total of 20 and the maximum score.
The points the Judges' give out isn't the important bit, it's where they place a couple on the leader board which counts.”
Thanks for that. I think (think) I got it. So, if we take last week's leaderboard we'll have:
Helen and Aljaz - score 35 and 12 points
Kellie and Kevin - score 35 and 12 points
Jay and Aliona - score 33 and 11 points
Anita and Gleb - score 32, 10 points
Georgia and Giovanni - score 31, 9 points
etc, etc, etc.
So, the important bit it's not the scoring but the "10 points", "9 points" which would be the equivalent of their places in the leaderborad, is that it?
(having horrible flashbacks from maths classes at school, ugh)
What they should do in the case of ties on the judges leaderboard is rank the tied dancers from best to worst. They had to do that in one of the Christmas specials as they had nearly everyone tying.
Ranking the tied teams would ensure that the judges leaderboard went from n (=no of contestants) down to 1, and the public vote will do the same!
Tied votes actually make it harder for lower placed (but still able) celebs to escape the dance off.
And the present system DOES have equal weighting of the judges and public scores.... Except in the rare occasion when the combined score is a tie - in which case the public vote is the tiebreaker - seen to best effect in some early finals where the public vote reversed the judges leaderboard.... Eg
Series 3 final
After the first 2 dances the scores were
Judges
Zoe 3
Colin 2
Darren 1
The public vote clearly had to have been
Zoe 1
Colin 2
Darren 3
Which resulted in a 3 way tie with all of them on 4 points....
as Zoe was eliminated first, that showed that she finished 3rd with the public, and likewise Darren had to be top - any other result Darren would have gone!
Since then however, in the finals they changed to be all down to the public vote!
Ranking the tied teams would ensure that the judges leaderboard went from n (=no of contestants) down to 1, and the public vote will do the same!
Tied votes actually make it harder for lower placed (but still able) celebs to escape the dance off.
And the present system DOES have equal weighting of the judges and public scores.... Except in the rare occasion when the combined score is a tie - in which case the public vote is the tiebreaker - seen to best effect in some early finals where the public vote reversed the judges leaderboard.... Eg
Series 3 final
After the first 2 dances the scores were
Judges
Zoe 3
Colin 2
Darren 1
The public vote clearly had to have been
Zoe 1
Colin 2
Darren 3
Which resulted in a 3 way tie with all of them on 4 points....
as Zoe was eliminated first, that showed that she finished 3rd with the public, and likewise Darren had to be top - any other result Darren would have gone!
Since then however, in the finals they changed to be all down to the public vote!
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