You mean like getting passive-aggressive with people on a forum when they don't agree with you?

Did you read my comment? Of course there have been white contestants who have been repeatedly in the dance off, but it's the sharp rise in black contestants being involved in them against the overall representation of black people in Strictly that it looks odd.

No, she didn't necessarily avoid the bottom two by being higher up the leaderboard. If the public was as biased against her as you are suggesting she could be top of the leaderboard and still be in the bottom two. Has it not occurred to you that she might not have been in the bottom two that week because more people voted for her because she danced better.

Skin colour is visible.

I think the denial of this is risible. There is a clear bias towards handsome men why is that less controversial than the equally clear bias against racial minorities? Both are just facts of life and audience demographics.

Now transfer that logic to another example of bias proven by pattern.

The fact that we have had only one female PM doesn't indicate gender bias unless you believe that man v woman is the only criteria on which people vote...

Maybe men win more public votes because they are just better....

Or maybe, in this case, it indicates underlying trends.

Great analogy

This thread is still going then

I still don't like her btw

Actually I seem to remember a lot of discussion about both of them not appealing, being empathetic enough to garner female voters etc and I think there was some truth in that.

In this case, the pattern doesn't prove anything. Colin Jackson most likely lost the final because of puppetgate and Darren Gough's incessant use of the word 'journey', although in my view he shouldn't have won that year anyway because Zoe and Ian were robbed.

Denise Lewis didn't win primarily because of Jill Halfpenny's jive.

Chris and Ola for some reason really connected with the public while Ricky had Natalie who for some reason people didn't seem to like in her first year (something to do with her being competitive if I recall).

You cannot assume that the fact that there has been no black winner (seeing as all the mixed race winners don't count apparently) has anything to do with their skin colour. It is more about talent and the circumstances of their respective series.

I remember there was uproar when Ricky Whittle didn't win, demanding that BBC release voting stats which they didn't.

I have to say the only week I have voted for Jamelia was her Charleston week. Every other week there have been a handful of couples I've felt danced better (and not all of them got my votes). If she produced another great performance I'd definitely vote for her. She's currently in that tricky position of being middle of the road. The judges keep saving her not because she's a brilliant dancer but because she's better than the other celeb in the DO. But she isn't delivering good enough dances to avoid the DO the following week. Kirsty was a lot like Jamelia. Her place on the show was always at risk as she just wasn't a brilliant dancer. I guess it's natural for people to speculate on other factors but it's just that - speculation. The only thing we have evidence of is that Jamelia isn't generally delivering great routines.

Actually the evidence is that she is producing good to mid-range dances but isn't getting the public vote because the public obviously don't like her.

That's why poor Kirsty was a gonna. If she had been against a dancer who was more closely matched in level to her during the dance off she would have stood more of a chance.

That isn't obvious at all. Maybe they just think that others are dancing better and are voting for them. Most people don't have the time/money/patience etc to vote for everyone apart from the two that they want in the dance off. Their votes are rationed to those they prefer. If Jamelia is mid table, she isn't good enough to attract the votes of those who vote for the best and she isn't bad enough to attract the votes of those who vote for the worst. It isn't enough to do 'good to mid-range' on Strictly. You either have to be A-MAZE-ING or Lame and Lacklustre

I vote online .Three votes for my favourites .I dont vote for those I wasnt pushed about the dance .It wouldnt even enter my head to know what colour skin they were .For God s sake is it not just possible that no one was that pushed about her dance so were not arsed to vote for her .Simple


I voted for Katie because she made an effort and the judges were horrible . I didnt even dawn on me " Oh Jamelia is black so I will vote for Katie who is white .What a load of rubbish

It's not that black dancers on Strictly are being directly rejected by the public - we vote to save, not vote to evict - it's just that they seem to have more of a battle to gain people's support. It's more of an unconscious racial bias that most people are unaware of, rather than the Great British Public actively rooting against minority contestants, which is what most people on this thread seem to think is going on.

And even though yes, a lot of minority contestants have done well on this show, they still make up a disproportionate amount of bottom two serial survivors (meaning those who have survived at least two bottom twos) (off the top of my head - John Barnes, Simon Webbe, Heather Small, Denise Lewis, Patrick Robinson, Sunetra Sarker, Ricky Whittle, Michelle Williams, Audley Harrison, now Jamelia - now compare that to the overall amount of people who survive multiple bottom twos and it won't be the same ratio as the ratio of races in the competition) and shock exits (DJ Spoony, Ray Fearon, Jimi Mistry - all three had high average scores and yet none of them made it past ninth place).

Another thing: Denise Lewis and Natalie Gumede both did full leaderboard plunges from the top into the bottom two in their respective semi-finals (and I suspect the bottom-two bounce helped propel both of them past a last-place finish in the final), so I don't think we can say 'Denise only lost because of Jill's jive'.

I'm sure some people don't vote for Jamelia because she is black just as some people don't vote for someone because s/he is too northern, southern, posh, chavvy, waggish, fat, old, young, smug, cheesy, thick ... whatever.

I think the main reason people don't vote for her is because she isn't a particularly good dance and her public persona isn't the most palatable.

In a nutshell she only has herself to blame

So did Lisa Snowdon and Denise Van Outen, because to a lot of people they didn't have particularly warm, appealing personalities and DVO was seen as a massive ringer. Exactly the same applies to Denise Lewis and Natalie, yet some people look for a further reason.

Agreed


Absolutely possible, and probable.


You can really take your pick from a load of statistics to favourably back up what you are saying. People talk a lot about Simon, Heather et al ending up in the bottom two but the most obvious anti-racism one would be the fact the show has produced several non-Caucasian winners. The fact of the matter is, no one really knows people's individual reasons for voting / not voting.

Anyway, this thread has seemingly been going in circles for some time, so I'll leave you to it! Suffice to say, if I choose not to vote for Jamelia this weekend it will have nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of her skin, so please don't put me in the "racist public voter" box.

Well at least this is honest

Denise lost out because people wanted Julian in the final (as I did). However it meant I was also voting like billy-oh for Denise because I didn't want her dead last and out.

That's the thing with the dance off - you have to lift your bottom of the leaderboard favourite up by 2 places to be safe, not just the one needed for non-dance off evictions which has the knock on effect of making the bottom/middle of the leaderboard even more vulnerable.

That argument doesn't really hold water though. You have to be leader of the party that wins to be Prime Minister, you don't vote for who you want to be Prime Minister, maybe a more useful analogy is President of the United States where you are voting for the personality.

Selective and intentional misquoting of other posts does nothing to advance your argument. All it achieves is to completely discredit your argument.

So is there a bias against handsome black men - or not?

There is, both positive and negative, just like there is against women, fat people etc.

There are stereotypes and assumptions about all groups of people that impact them negatively and positively depending on the circumstances. However racism is particularly ingrained and more pervasive because of the inability or unwillingness of so many to acknowledge it and therefore question their ingrained reactions based on it.

Good post.