Unless you're one of those women who particularly fancy black men. I don't as it happens - but I find Scandiwegians even more of a turn off. I'll have a nice northern Italian any time you like though.

I think you do the vast majority of people a huge disservice - I suspect most folks scarcely notice colour these days.

Over and out.

Training from itt today looks good!

I think it is ironic that you can recognise your own biases within the white race but are uncomfortable to acknowledge preferences beyond that. Why recognise that you have a bias towards northern Italians but find it difficult to acknowledge people notice colour.

Black people tend to be more comfortable with acknowledging tastes and biases within the spectrum of colour. When white people can as casually too then I'd be doing them a disservice - but that clearly isn't reality at the moment.

It does! Hoping she'll have a good week

She's taking it too personal. She won't be in the bkttom two this weekend as her dance looks good. She needs to know that Carol and Jeremy are just more popular although not as good as her.

I hope she gets a break from the dance off this weekend, their dance looks good and imagine their reaction if they escape the red light 😁

What on earth are you talking about?

I am not sure that who people are physically attracted to in a sexual way is necessarily a good guide to how people will vote in a reality TV show. Yes, of course, there will be some who will vote for Gleb and Anita because he stripped off live on air but I would hope that the majority of the voting public aren't so easily taken in. We aren't looking to date these people, we are just expressing a view on how they dance.

I thought this was an interesting idea so I ran some numbers (not including this series because it's only half over). On average non-white contestants appeared in 1.72 bottom 2s over the course of their stay, whilst white contestants appeared in 1.41. Not a massive difference, although you wouldn't expect one. If you break it down by individual number it looks like this :

0 Bottom 2 appearances : 8% of white contestants vs 14% of non-white contestants
1 Bottom 2 appearance : 45% of white contestants vs 38% of non-white contestants
2 Bottom 2 appearances : 35% of white contestants vs 24% of non-white contestants
3 Bottom 2 appearances : 10% of white contestants vs 10% of non-white contestants
4 Bottom 2 appearances : 2% of white contestants vs 14% of non-white contestants

Which suggests to me possibly that if there is an effect, it's with the mediocre/less talented dancers - talented non-white celebrities don't appear to have a problem making the end without hitting the bottom 2 compared to white ones, but less talented ones tend to make more drops into the bottom 2 before disappearing. That is, if there's a real difference - the distinction in performance isn't as great as this thread perhaps makes out.

(If people were interested re : gender it works out as 1.43 B2s on average for men and 1.51 for women, which is really no significant difference at all.)

Unless both Jeremy and Carol are in the bottom two, she is definitely the prime candidate for the dance-off.

Training did look good, but she would probably need at least a score of 32 to get in amongst the contenders (and that is only on the judges leaderboard).

That's what she said. Her only hope of not being in the dance off is getting a high enough judges score to keep her from it.

....Meanwhile other dancers can produce rubbish and not be at major risk.

Thanks for taking the trouble to produce this. Thing is, most of the examples off the top of Cptn Cherub's head are Afro-Caribbean or African-American, rather than mixed race or Asian ethnicity. It's the bias in the public against black celebs, not non-White ones that is the issue here, for me.

Not buying this whole 'racism' angle, I'm afraid. I find it highly unlikely that more than a deluded minority would use this as a reason not to back her. Her middle of the road dancing skills, and an unmemorable personality are to blame in my view. Her dances all seemed to lack the wow factor for me, save for her Charleston; the same week she wasn't in the dance off.

I imagine Jeremy and Carol get through despite their dire dancing skills because of their warm, enthusiastic attitudes, and their relatable underdog nature. They just come across as lovely and normal, which counts for a lot. Stick a charming, or likable black celebrity in there and the public will warm to them just fine. Jamelia just isn't it.

There is an alternative conclusion to be made from your figures to do with the judges and not the public, ie, that they score non white celebrities slightly lower than white celebs. Hence non whites end up in the bottom 2 more often, but then the judges will save the non white celebrity more often. That explanation has nothing to do with public racial bias and more to do with perhaps higher expectations from the judges for non white celebs, which isn't born out in a direct comparison with a white celeb, when the 2 dances are judged directly against one another. I always hear natural rhymn spouted about a non white celeb, poor Michelle Williams hardly managed to hit any beat and Jamelia isn't far behind.

I think your figures may show a judges bias that has little to do with public bias .

People will always vote for a hottie they fancy, you only have to read to see that this is the case.

But ethnicity effects who you relate to and find normal.

That includes who you see as the underdogs. Why are Jeremy and Carole consideried the underdogs considering they have public support and haven't been at risk of leaving despite their lack of dance skills. That really makes the privileged not underdogs.

Gotta love how everybody just loves arguing the toss between themselves, without recourse to the facts.
There were four obviously weakest in the competition:
Jamelia - (ex)-singer, couldn't tell you of what
Kirsty - presenter (on Sky apparently, couldn't tell you of what)
Carol - presenter on BBC weather
Jeremy- presenter on BBC radio mainly

In case you haven't noticed, the big clue above as to how they stay in is in their public visiblility. On the BBC it is massive.
But carry on with the arguments about who is hemi-, demi-, semi- and full-on black since that is what you so obviously prefer

The way the issue is presented in these discussions is invariably massively over-simplified. There is actually something interesting here but to gain any real insight into it you have to consider all angles and the connections between them before you draw your conclusions.

Let's start, for example, with the actual casting of these shows. There's evidently a lot of pressure on producers to ensure diversity that goes way beyond any kind of proportional representation. When the BBC is involved, the whole issue is magnified because of the scrutiny they are under. Now if indeed there is a policy of the kind I'm suggesting, it doesn't take a genius to work out how that might be connected down the line to the appearance of ethnic/racial/cultural bias amongst the voters.

I could go on and on but I'll just summarise my position instead. The voting reflects all kinds of bias including ethnic/racial/cultural but that in itself is not evidence of racism...at least not a sensible definition of racism. In fact I suggest a lot of what is claimed to be racism is no more racism than Jewish people tending to marry other Jewish people or a black person having mostly black friends etc etc. Furthermore part of the cause of any particular voting group's bias is the bias they perceive in other groups and that's what I mean when I say you have to consider how everything is connected.

You forget Iwan, a BBC staple and terrible dancer. But of course he wouldn't help anyone's argument.

you're so sportist

Thought the same to

But that doesn't take into account that there are far less non-white contestants taking part. Out of approx 177 contestants .. only 37 (again approx) are non-white. So the percentage of white contestants hitting the bottom 2 should be markedly higher.

Really...I always find that people who bring up theses subject have more of a problem.

OMG how is this thread still going, can't admins close it now.

Can you run those numbers again for black and other as we keep being told that mixed race doesn't count.