I would say as a music fan you should be bothered.

It is ironic that in many ways it was easier to find new music 40 years ago when I first got in to music than it is today.

Back then the Top 40 and Radio 1 playlist were much more diverse than it is today as well as the likes of TOTP and OGWT plus the weekly music papers such as NME, Sounds, Melody Maker, etc. These gave you a starting point to find new music and much of it would be played on the TV or radio.

Even with the vast resource of the internet if people have no starting point, the Top 40 has very little diversity now compared to then the same is also true of Radio 1, it becomes much harder to find something new because, quite simply, where do you start? YouTube, Spotify, etc, are great but if you're not aware of what is out there in the first place because you've not heard something on the radio to catch your ear you're unlikely to bother

As a Rock fan ...Later has a very narrow definition of the Rock music it will cover, basically what is played on 6 Music or they see at Glastonbury, and certainly doesn't reflect either the breadth or popularity of the genre.

I do think there needs to be a shake-up, perhaps get some radio stations to play a quota and even force TV channels to do so as well? We've become a very monolithic society - everything is virtually the same, and there is no variation. To be fair, the likes of Biffy Clyro, Royal Blood and Iron Maiden are the ones who will have a long career, as they've the talent to back themselves up with and aren't a marketing gimmick.

As for the singles charts, it's all manipulation and who has the biggest fan base. How about adopting a Eurovision style system where say 25-30% of the chart is decided by a jury of music professionals from all over Europe. Would stop the likes of Tinie Tempah and Beiber doing well or have the jury but let them override a #1 that is of low quality, and give some of these indie/rock bands a shot of the top 40.

Later covers more styles of music than OGWT ever did. Diversity isn't just about Rock music.

Not that I really take much notice of NME thesedays - this review of Ellie Goulding new album is pretty much spot on about the state of music at the minute.

http://www.nme.com/reviews/ellie-goulding/16315

And where did I claim it was?

However if you look at the vast array of talent playing Rock music and the myriad of genres and styles the genre encompasses then ...Later's treatment of Rock music as a whole is execrable.

But you said in your original post that Later is less diverse than OGWT when it covers more genres than OGWT did. Not that it makes much difference to the mainstream because KT Tunstall is the only artist I know of that has credited Later for their commercial success?

The Radio 1 playlist may well be much less diverse than it used to be but to be fair to Radio 1 it is still alot more diverse than the charts.

I would say Radio 1 is the most diverse station you tell me a station that plays Justin Beiber then Enter Shikari then Nero then Bears Den then Everything Everything then Stormsy that can be within a typical half hour

I think you have a point there. I don't think there has been any Death/Doom/Symphonic Metal on Later.... I would be intrigued how this music would sound and go down on such a programme.

The OGWT was better because it was presented with little fuss and it was curated. For example, whispering Bob didn't like all the artists that appeared.

There are no more bands because:

1) All the rock/indie fans have so many stupid arguments (already starting on this board) about what constitutes good rock/indie that it is virtually impossible for many acts to get past the taste police.

2) It costs more to record bands in a studio, whereas all the EDM DJ brigade can do their own production on their home on their own computers. Record labels are starved of money through piracy and streaming anyway. So they are increasingly unlikely to foot the bill for bands. EDM is far more attractive price wise and Radio is more interested in playing it.

3) Speaking as someone who goes to grass roots gigs I find most young musician people now are either terribly nice but booooooooring in terms of music or utter complete tw@'s that make... well... utter sh*te.

4) Add to that the fact that many of them are utterly selfish people. Many don't even want to form bands anymore because they don't want to share any of the money. And to be fair there's others the flip side of that where there's people that can write songs but can't get bands to take their music any further because people are too selfish to work with them. Everybody is out for themselves these days.

5) Even if you can get around the above factors it is unlikely you will make any money from your band. People, especially rock and indie fans don't see why they should pay for music meaning you will earn far more money by having a regular job. I wonder how many John Lennon's are working as builders now because it pays more than a career in music is likely to.

6) Although I don't think class should be an issue- I personally can think of all sorts of great working, middle and upper class acts I’ve loved over the years- because of the money issues, bands are increasingly becoming middle class hobbyists. This isn't good for diversity at all. I've observed that middle class student types are very hostile to people that aren't part of their clicky class set, further pushing rock/indie away from the masses and into obscurity.

7) Making good songs alone doesn't seem to be enough for taste ambassadors that run radio and the media. You have to be big on social media. Again, working classes are screwed here as they can't stimulate whole student fraternities to follow them or have the money to pay internet bot sites to artificially inflate their Facebook/you-tube hits.

8) Mainstream Radio and TV has totally turned its back on rock and indie. I am so glad to see the return of TFI Friday as it’s the only mainstream TV show playing a decent variety of new music. Whatever anyone thinks of Chris Evans TF he's someone who's genuinely interested in music and that he didn't give the gig to Nick Gwimmyshaw who would have just filled the music slots with his boyband friends.

I'll stop now, you get the idea.

I dare say some of the indie bands that became popular 8/9 years ago tainted the guitar led music scene. There were a number of flash-in-the-pan indie/rock acts who were championed by Radio 1, got their sole top 10 single and faded back into obscurity. They seemed to lack any real creativity to build on their success and becoming one of those blink and you miss it type acts. Orson, One Night Only, Hard-Fi etc...to name but a few.

Also with charts, it's mostly youngsters who now determine what the next big hit is. Radio 1 obviously don't help as they basically decide who to playlist based on factors like how many followers said act has on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram. So if an indie band release a decent but not outstanding song and have 8k followers, Radio 1 are more likely to opt for some American pop act with 600k followers but a seriously crap song.

"the public wants what the public gets"

EXACTLY right, people who think that the likes of The Sleaford Mods, Everything Everything and Richard Hawley are ROCK, really need to listen to some REAL Rock music!!!!!

So what is REAL Rock music Mr. Snob?

I am sorry but this is complete nonsense.

Whilst physical music sales have declined across the board, sales for Rock music have declined more slowly than other genres. A Heavy Metal/Hard Rock/Symphonic Metal fan is far more likely to purchase a physical copy of a CD than download it illegally.

There are also plenty of young British bands looking to make their way in those genres as well, The Treatment, Furyon, Tax The Heat, Winter In Eden, Godsized, Black Spiders, are examples I can think of off the top of my head and there are plenty of others.

I think that certainly Symphonic Metal could go down very well, the likes of Delain and Within Temptation, for example have a very polished commercial sound.

But they are only two examples, Joanne Shaw Taylor is another example, a very talented young British Blues Rock musician who has been completely ignored and there are many, many, others.

It isn't about being music "snob" at all but a recognition that the likes of The Sleaford Mods, Everything Everything, and Richard Hawley, conform perfectly to what I said earlier, the typical BBC 6 Music/Glastonbury interpretation of what constitutes "Rock" music today to the almost total exclusion of pretty much everything else.

Just in the past year I've been turned on to Rival Sons and Ezra Furman by ...Later both are pretty rocking acts when they want to be.
There have been loads of bands I've started following because of ...Later and even if it's only a couple a year I'm happy with that.

And I always buy the CD of an album if I enjoy it, what I absolutely refuse to do is pay money for digital only releases, I want something physical for my money.
I really miss the bus journey home with my new album, excitedly checking out the album sleeve hoping it has the lyrics. What I don't miss is buying absolute stinkers of albums with 1/2 good tracks.
Jeez, I remember when the 'revolution' of listening posts was introduced in music shops.

In some ways rival Sons are a prefect example, i first saw them in 2011 at High Voltage Festival and yet it took a further four years before they were invited on to ...Later.

The Same with Mastodon, they were on ...Later in 2011 and yet I first saw them when they supported Tool in 2006!!

There is a very interesting article about this, which was written the day after Mastodon's appearance...

Mastodon on Later - Why has Jools Ignored Heavy Metal?


That was true in 2011 and a lot of Metal fans still feel the same today because nothing has changed in the intervening years.

Yeah, I'm not a big metal fan but I listened to Iron Maiden's latest, they are an established band, 'The Book of Souls' was a No 1 album, there is nothing obscene on the record, they are good musicians, why were they not on 'Later..'?

Metal fans make me smile. They deride those in their tribe who 'sell out' and do anything 'commercial' yet seem to crave acceptance by the mainstream and get very annoyed indeed that their very niche genre isn't given daytime radio play, appearances on Jools Holland, etc. They pride themselves on being 'rebels' and a little bit scary but bleat on about how no-one loves them and that people won't touch their genre with a barge pole. Do you think punks back in the 70s whined like this?

We all know why music critics generally snub metal, why Jools Holland's bookers snub it, why it stays in its own music press ghetto, etc. It's because it's not taken seriously and neither are its fans. And I doubt that will ever change.

Never fear. Busted are back to save guitar bands.

The fact that none of that lot are well known outside of their respective fan circles, and that none of them are making top 40 albums (at least in this country and cannot comment on elsewhere) sadly proves my initial statements were correct. More's the pity.

A quick look through the sales charts tell the same old story: The usual pop, urban and dance acts dominating sales. Rock and indie tanking progressively worse and worse every year. Not good times for lovers of guitar music.

Also worth mentioning that single sales have improved, but rock and indie have not seen the benefit of that upswing.

All Metal fans want is a fair crack of the whip, why shouldn't they?

...Later is said to be all about the music and yet in 20 years they have only ever had two Metal bands on. It isn't "whining" at all, it is about blatant BBC bias against certain genres of music, Metal being one of them.

You said young people aren't forming bands any more, the point of my reply was to give examples of young people who have formed bands.


When I look at the number of Rock and Metal bands who have had Top 40 albums in the last couple of years, I refute entirely that Rock music is "tanking".

Lamb Of God - #7
Iron Maiden - #1
Black Sabbath - #1
Black Stone Cherry - #5
Within Temptation - #6
Halestorm - #10
Rival Sons - #14
Five Finger Death Punch - #6

I could go on...

Rock music has never been about singles sales, it has always been about album sales and live shows. I go to two or three gigs a month on average and most gigs are pretty much sold out and Rock festivals, both in the UK and in Europe, are thriving.

The only thing that is "tanking" is the wider public's perception of Rock Music and that is simply because they no longer hear or see it at all, either on TV or mainstream radio.

To be honest i'm willing to bet Maiden have been approached and turned it down.