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New Star Trek Series Coming in January 2017


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Old 30-06-2016, 13:00
GDK
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The problem is that you can't please everyone and it annoys me as I have probably been a fan much longer than some of the wingers that don't get that they aren't the only fans out there and they keep claiming that there's more than there is moaning about the new movies and they seem to forget that even the original shows had a few continuity problems in them because it went on for years and you can't remember everything that has gone on before as there is 50 years of material to go through.
I quite agree. It doesn't have to be right in every last little detail (though it's better if it is). For me, good continuity is an indicator that the makers "gave a damn" about quality. On that front, for me, the JJ'verse scrapes in (apart from the Spock link back to the prime timeline link it's mostly just name-checking), but more than made up for it in sheer entertainment value.

For fans some of the enjoyment comes from spotting the errors and deviations from canon and coming up with an in-universe explanation.

A good story idea must trump strict canon, but taking that story and making it fit the established canon can also lead to innovation. And the fans enjoy retro-fitting explanations for the "errors" anyway.

There's a lot of self entitled fans out there who need to take a broader perspective.
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Old 30-06-2016, 13:21
Thrombin
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Like it or lump it, all the Star Trek series and movies (with the exception of the 1970s animated series) are part of one established continuity. Star Trek has never been rebooted. Because of the link via Leonard Nimoy's Spock, even the JJ'verse is part of that established canon, even though it played fast and loose with the science and the technology.
That's my take too. I don't consider the movies a reboot so ignoring the timeline implications of the movies is almost tantamount to a first reboot. Which would be a bit disappointing TBH.

Having said that, I suppose you could still put a series into the original timeline without it being a reboot because you could just treat it as a historical that takes place prior to the timeline being changed. Although, knowing that at some point the timeline will eventually be changed means you are rendering everything that happens in the new series kind of pointless!

Alternately, something could later come along and fix the timeline so it is back to normal but then that will render all the movies pointless.

Ho hum...
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Old 30-06-2016, 14:10
little-monster
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Just a heads up

All star trek shows and films are all on Netflix UK now.
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Old 30-06-2016, 14:38
Corwin
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Having said that, I suppose you could still put a series into the original timeline without it being a reboot because you could just treat it as a historical that takes place prior to the timeline being changed. Although, knowing that at some point the timeline will eventually be changed means you are rendering everything that happens in the new series kind of pointless!
Well you can still set the story post destruction of Romulus as the original timeline will still be carrying on (just without Spock in it).

The rumour that the new show was set between the TOS Era and NG era seems to have been debunked so having the story post Timeline split may still happen.
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Old 30-06-2016, 14:50
Thrombin
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Well you can still set the story post destruction of Romulus as the original timeline will still be carrying on (just without Spock in it).

The rumour that the new show was set between the TOS Era and NG era seems to have been debunked so having the story post Timeline split may still happen.
I think if they did incorporate the change in timeline it would be a good thing because it would avoid having to stick to all that past continuity (other than with the movies) and it would also answer the question of what the future now looks like given the changes.

It would give them much more freedom in creating a new story in a new reality. They could keep everything they liked and change anything they didn't and it wouldn't have to contradict the continuity of what had gone before at all.
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Old 30-06-2016, 16:09
GDK
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That's my take too. I don't consider the movies a reboot so ignoring the timeline implications of the movies is almost tantamount to a first reboot. Which would be a bit disappointing TBH.

Having said that, I suppose you could still put a series into the original timeline without it being a reboot because you could just treat it as a historical that takes place prior to the timeline being changed. Although, knowing that at some point the timeline will eventually be changed means you are rendering everything that happens in the new series kind of pointless!

Alternately, something could later come along and fix the timeline so it is back to normal but then that will render all the movies pointless.

Ho hum...
You seem to be assuming the original timeline was destroyed in favour of the JJ'verse the moment the Narada travelled back in time.

I favour the multi-verse solution, where both timelines continue and go on their separate ways after the split.

For me the original timeline still exists. It continues. Spock disappears just after stopping the supernova and failing to stop Romulus being destroyed. The timeline continues...
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Old 30-06-2016, 17:20
Thrombin
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You seem to be assuming the original timeline was destroyed in favour of the JJ'verse the moment the Narada travelled back in time.

I favour the multi-verse solution, where both timelines continue and go on their separate ways after the split.

For me the original timeline still exists. It continues. Spock disappears just after stopping the supernova and failing to stop Romulus being destroyed. The timeline continues...
Vulcan was also destroyed, wasn't it?

I didn't think the multiple universe theory of time travel was a thing in the Star Trek shows but, it's been a long time since I watched any Star Trek and my memory isn't the best
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Old 30-06-2016, 17:55
RebelScum
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Vulcan was also destroyed, wasn't it?
Vulcan was destroyed in the JJ universe, not the Prime timeline.
I didn't think the multiple universe theory of time travel was a thing in the Star Trek shows but, it's been a long time since I watched any Star Trek and my memory isn't the best
Have you not seen any of the Mirror Universe episodes? Or the TNG episode Parallels?

Star Tek has both versions, they get away with it under the argument that space is so vast and wondrous that whilst the properties of one particular temporal anomaly may cause the creation of a new timeline, in other circumstances or in a different region of space it may cause a timeline to be written over. They'll do whatever suits the story at the time and back it up with some technobabble.

However in the case of the new movies, it was confirmed by the writers that this is a new timline running alongside the original timeline. Two of many timelines running alongside each other.
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Old 30-06-2016, 19:46
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I didn't think the multiple universe theory of time travel was a thing in the Star Trek shows but, it's been a long time since I watched any Star Trek and my memory isn't the best
Star Trek does whatever it feels like in terms of time travel. Sometimes events are predestined and unalterable (Time's Arrow) and sometimes a tiny change can overwrite all of history (City on the Edge of Forever).

The writers of the reboot films have said their intention is that this is an alternate reality created by the change in the timeline and that the original timeline continues in its own universe. It must be some special result that happens when you mix a faster-than-light supernova with red matter and create a black hole with inconsistent gravitational powers. Or something.
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Old 30-06-2016, 22:54
carl.waring
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Just a heads up

All star trek shows and films are all on Netflix UK now.
Almost all. The 2009 (?) film isn't there. (ie the Abrams re-boot)
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:34
Archiex
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Just a heads up

All star trek shows and films are all on Netflix UK now.
I wonder if that's a sign that Netflix will be showing this new series in the UK? Hopefully they will.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:37
Flash525
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I wonder if that's a sign that Netflix will be showing this new series in the UK? Hopefully they will.
I doubt Netflix will have the show until (at least) 2018.
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:13
GDK
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I think it's unlikely that CBS All Access would sell this to a major competitor - even in (from a US perspective) international markets. My guess would be Sky in the UK as they seem to have the deepest pockets.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:28
Thrombin
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Vulcan was destroyed in the JJ universe, not the Prime timeline.
I thought we were discussing what changes happened in the JJ timeline, of which Vulcan was one of the major ones. My contention was that the JJ Universe has established continuity with the Prime timeline so I didn't see why we were making a distinction.

Have you not seen any of the Mirror Universe episodes? Or the TNG episode Parallels?
I do remember the Mirror Universe stuff but that Universe wasn't caused by temporal changes, as far as I remember. I was asking whether there was any precedent for temporal changes causing parallel universes. Maybe 'parallels' is one such, I don't remember individual episodes from that long ago!

Star Tek has both versions, they get away with it under the argument that space is so vast and wondrous that whilst the properties of one particular temporal anomaly may cause the creation of a new timeline, in other circumstances or in a different region of space it may cause a timeline to be written over. They'll do whatever suits the story at the time and back it up with some technobabble.

However in the case of the new movies, it was confirmed by the writers that this is a new timline running alongside the original timeline. Two of many timelines running alongside each other.
Fair enough, if it's been confirmed that way.

Star Trek does whatever it feels like in terms of time travel. Sometimes events are predestined and unalterable (Time's Arrow) and sometimes a tiny change can overwrite all of history (City on the Edge of Forever).

The writers of the reboot films have said their intention is that this is an alternate reality created by the change in the timeline and that the original timeline continues in its own universe. It must be some special result that happens when you mix a faster-than-light supernova with red matter and create a black hole with inconsistent gravitational powers. Or something.
Ok, I'll buy it. Sounds feasible
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:33
deadmancarl
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Just a heads up

All star trek shows and films are all on Netflix UK now.
Nice. I've been wanted to re-watch some series for a while. Now an easy way to do it.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:28
little-monster
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Nice. I've been wanted to re-watch some series for a while. Now an easy way to do it.
Same here
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:40
GDK
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I thought we were discussing what changes happened in the JJ timeline, of which Vulcan was one of the major ones. My contention was that the JJ Universe has established continuity with the Prime timeline so I didn't see why we were making a distinction.



I do remember the Mirror Universe stuff but that Universe wasn't caused by temporal changes, as far as I remember. I was asking whether there was any precedent for temporal changes causing parallel universes. Maybe 'parallels' is one such, I don't remember individual episodes from that long ago!



Fair enough, if it's been confirmed that way.



Ok, I'll buy it. Sounds feasible
In Mirror, Mirror, the DS9 and Enterprise episodes that went to "the" mirror universe and TNG's Parallels it's not clear what (if anything) "caused" those universes. They may have been due to a time travel incident altering the course of events, they may have always been there as part of the multiverse or "created" from any of the many branch points where decisions were made differently in each "version" of the universe.

One fan theory has suggested that the mirror universe is the universe created from the "Edith Keeler" timeline created in the original series episode City on the Edge of Forever.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:55
GDK
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Star Trek does whatever it feels like in terms of time travel. Sometimes events are predestined and unalterable (Time's Arrow) and sometimes a tiny change can overwrite all of history (City on the Edge of Forever).

The writers of the reboot films have said their intention is that this is an alternate reality created by the change in the timeline and that the original timeline continues in its own universe. It must be some special result that happens when you mix a faster-than-light supernova with red matter and create a black hole with inconsistent gravitational powers. Or something.
That must be the explanation for Delta Vega appearing in the Vulcan solar system as well!
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Old 01-07-2016, 14:03
Thrombin
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In Mirror, Mirror, the DS9 and Enterprise episodes that went to "the" mirror universe and TNG's Parallels it's not clear what (if anything) "caused" those universes. They may have been due to a time travel incident altering the course of events, they may have always been there as part of the multiverse or "created" from any of the many branch points where decisions were made differently in each "version" of the universe.
I always assumed the latter. The way Sliders worked and the Earth2/Earth3 etc. from the DC comics.

The type that spring into existence as a result of avoiding the paradoxes of time travel are certainly a possibility I just didn't realise they were a thing in the Star Trek world. There's no reason why not, I suppose
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Old 01-07-2016, 14:23
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When it comes to time travel I don't think you can have a consistent logic - you just go down whatever path the story requires.

In my mind, the moment Spock went back in time the Prime universe stopped existing, so it wouldn't make sense to set a show in that timeline after that point. However everything up to the Romulus supernova did happen and so telling 'historic' stories from the Prime timeline would still make sense to me. If they wanted to set a show in the future of the JJ universe that would also make sense. That's loosely how I comprehend Trek time travel as it has been shown multiple times that time travel that will change things does 'destroy' the original timeline.

However that's just my interpretation, if the writers say otherwise then fair enough. None of it actually exists
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:21
GDK
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Just had a thought. In the JJ'verse, they have an eighty year (or so) "heads up" about that "special" supernova that destroyed Romulus in the prime timeline. There could be an interesting story there set in the TNG era of the JJ'verse. Probably not a movie but it could make a good Trek novel. Not to mention having the JJ'verse counterparts of the familiar TNG, DS9 and Voyager characters.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:07
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Just had a thought. In the JJ'verse, they have an eighty year (or so) "heads up" about that "special" supernova that destroyed Romulus in the prime timeline. There could be an interesting story there set in the TNG era of the JJ'verse. Probably not a movie but it could make a good Trek novel. Not to mention having the JJ'verse counterparts of the familiar TNG, DS9 and Voyager characters.
They could potentially have the heads up on a number of upcoming environmental disasters (natural or otherwise). The Klingon moon Praxis, the whale mother-ship thing, the Nexus, V'ger, or even the threats of the Borg & the Dominion. All depending on whether old Spock has shared all this info with the relevant authorities or decided to go down the temporal prime directive non-interference route and remain silent, letting things play out in their own way.

In the graphic novel The Q Gambit, in the Prime timeline, Q visits Picard and tells him Spock is still alive (in the JJ universe). Q goes there, and then takes the current movie Kirk crew forward in time to the DS9 era version of the JJ timeline.
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Old 02-07-2016, 16:18
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I agree there's a host of interesting possibilities depending on what Spock prime chooses to reveal when Starfleet debrief him.

There is a shot of Qo'nos in Into Darkness showing what appears to be a moon disintegrating very close to the planet. I always wondered whether that was supposed to suggest that Praxis had already happened in the JJ'verse.
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:41
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Just had a thought. In the JJ'verse, they have an eighty year (or so) "heads up" about that "special" supernova that destroyed Romulus in the prime timeline.
They could potentially have the heads up on a number of upcoming environmental disasters (natural or otherwise). The Klingon moon Praxis, the whale mother-ship thing, the Nexus, V'ger, or even the threats of the Borg & the Dominion.
Whilst it's true, as new Spock said in the first reboot film, because of the temporal incursion, events if the [now present] are fundamentally altered.

The Admiral from Into Darkness captured Khan before he would have normally been found, we don't know (I don't think) when the new Enterprise was launched; they're on their five year mission, yet Praxis (as already mentioned by GDK) has already happened. Already events of the new timeline are inconsistent to the prime timeline.

It's possible that due to temporal mechanics (that would likely have rippled through the new timeline) the events of V'Ger, the Whale Probe and the Nexus simply wont happen. One temporal incursion is like throwing a pebble into a lake; the ripples expand, as they likely would here. One crew member of the Kelvin, or one crew member from one of the many Klingon ships that were destroyed by the Narada could have passed on some information or studied something of relevance for later knowledge.

The only thing we can pretty much guarantee (because we know they exist) is that the Dominion is already in existence, and poses a thread, but all they've got to do is locate the wormhole.

It is however unlikely that old Spock revealed any details as he wanted to let time flow as it is (now) meant too. If he starts changing things to save lives, he would ultimately stop other lives from coming into existence.

With regard to the Romulans of the new timeline, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have at least heard about Nero and the Narada, and it's possible they'll have heard rumors of the why and how (in turn, they'd make preparations in advance for their homeworld). Whilst it's also not cannon, the STO timeline holds the Iconians responsible for destroying that star and wiping out Romulus.

In the graphic novel The Q Gambit, in the Prime timeline, Q visits Picard and tells him Spock is still alive (in the JJ universe). Q goes there, and then takes the current movie Kirk crew forward in time to the DS9 era version of the JJ timeline.
To what end and purpose?
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Old 15-07-2016, 13:43
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To what end and purpose?
In the JJ universe, in the future the Pah-Wraiths control the wormhole and are a threat to the Q Continuum. Q puts Kirk and his crew in a no-win scenario hoping he'll figure out a solution which in turn will help Q with his problem.
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