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New Star Trek Series Coming in January 2017


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Old 17-08-2016, 15:23
Flash525
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Going back to the new series:

I'm hearing a lot that that it will definitely concern a major conflict with the Klingons. Also the ship design will be different to what we saw in the teaser.
This appears to be false information. They've made claims that they're modifying the design slightly, but you can bet it'll look very similar to that piece of trash we've seen in the teaser.
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Old 17-08-2016, 17:58
zantarous
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Going back to the new series:


I had another one of my thoughts - at least with the time setting we will be guaranteed that there are no holodeck episodes No Fairhaven or Vic Fontaine or Robin Hood.
I give you Fairhaven those were some of the worst Voyager episodes, but Vic Fontaine was at least interesting and generally a likeable character.

Also who can forget the episode Our Man Bashir a truly awesome holodeck episode.
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Old 17-08-2016, 21:04
Rooks
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The first two seasons had mainly dull characters, especially Archer and Mayweather, but Reed and Hoshi were also dull and Phlox was the weird alien cllche version of dull. Only Trip, and, to a lesser extent, T'Pol were standout characters.
The problem was that Star Trek found a formula in TNG and both Voyager and early seasons of Enterprise kept to that formula even though TV itself had moved forward. Heck, you can actually take many Voyager and Enterprise episodes and pin point the exact TNG episode they were "inspired" by. Enterprise still followed the crewmember of the week idea in an era where that was simply old fashioned.

Things have moved even further now with many shows designed for boxset binge watching and I don't think standalone, reset-button style episodes would work in 2017. Which is actually a good thing imo because Trek strikes me as a show that would really suit the boxset generation.. if done right.
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Old 17-08-2016, 21:41
CD93
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Things have moved even further now with many shows designed for boxset binge watching and I don't think standalone, reset-button style episodes would work in 2017. Which is actually a good thing imo because Trek strikes me as a show that would really suit the boxset generation.. if done right.
Yes - I know a lot can be said for standalones, but I think this was the only way to go to bring Star Trek back today. Christ, even 24 has had to cut back to 12 episodes to keep the audience engaged.
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Old 17-08-2016, 21:47
JDF
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Will Discovery have a different badge compared Kirks to Enterprise as back them each ship had a different badge.
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Old 17-08-2016, 23:10
Tassium
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Story-arc series are also looking a bit dated these days. It's what happens with TV, it goes in cycles.


Personally I think what would work well for a TV series is the old TV-movie length, 90minutes.

So revisiting the stand-alone episode concept, but with more time to tell it. And 8 episode runs.
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Old 17-08-2016, 23:15
little-monster
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The standalone episode concept is often looked down these days. Which is a shame. And that is one of the main big reasons why i don't really like most of today's sci-fi shows as 22 episodes of full on arc nonsense bores me. Babylon 5 and Fringe became more arc based as they went on but they did it in a way where they never piled the viewers with so many things to follow and never became victims of hitting dead ends.

But i feel with only 13 episodes, Star Trek may somehow do it right. But i would still rather standalone episodes mixed in. But it won't happen.
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Old 18-08-2016, 06:46
GDK
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Story-arc series are also looking a bit dated these days. It's what happens with TV, it goes in cycles.


Personally I think what would work well for a TV series is the old TV-movie length, 90minutes.

So revisiting the stand-alone episode concept, but with more time to tell it. And 8 episode runs.
I disagree. While many things often do go in fashion cycles, the use of long form story telling in TV is part of a progression or continuing development. It is not "looking dated these days".

Episodic TV was a form created for commercial, rather than creative reasons.

To have a series with continuing characters who never, or rarely, reference things that happened to them in the past, where each week is a dramatic, single story, where, by the end of each story, everything is exactly the same as it was at the beginning, is simply a less convincing form of drama.

Episodic TV was created so that viewers could join a series part way through without needing to understand what had happened previously and so that they could be shown in any order. Broadcasters could also drop a single episode into their schedules to fill a gap. This was felt to be a commercial advantage, but has the effect of diluting the drama.

Series makers have realised that there's also an advantage in telling long form stories across multiple episodes that build an audience that's more committed and will stay with it and see it through.

I think the trend began in the 1970s in the US with the first mini series. UK TV was already used to making one off serialised dramas, but this hadn't been done in the US before Rich man, Poor Man.

There's a place for both forms, but to me episodic TV is more like a series of snacks or junk food whereas arc series are a more like the courses in a satisfying, complete meal.

YMMV of course.
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Old 18-08-2016, 08:33
GDK
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Correction: An adaptation of QB VII was actually the first US TV mini series. Rich Man, Poor Man was the second.

Was the original V the first science fiction TV mini series?

Anyway, 13 episodes of arc based stories seems about right for a modern TV series.
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Old 18-08-2016, 13:58
blueisthecolour
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All drama should have a chronological flow. The events from one episode should impact another; characters should slowly change, relationships develop, long term objectives worked towards. The argument about episodic vs arc tv shouldn't include any talk about wanting a show where episodes are literally stand alone. Outside of children's cartoons that kind of story telling is obviously not relevant any more.

Can anyone name a recent drama in which the events of one episode don't effect the others?
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:02
little-monster
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I don't agree that all dramas should have a chronological flow. Although it depends on the type of show. A show like Game of thrones wouldn't work if it wasn't serilalized. But shows with open and wider worlds with different adventure opportunties like Star trek work well with standalone episodes. I mean episodes should reference what has happened previously but the problem with arc is the constant reminder and focus on main arcs. What i love about standalones is it allows the characters to do and face different challenges and not feel the need for us to learn yet another piece of the puzzle that won't be solved for a long time.

Doctor Who and The Libarians still maintain standalone episodes. Doctor Who will reference past events and small titbits about the current arc, but it doesn't allow the references to dominate the whole episode and cause the current story to be chucked to the side
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:22
Duncan_Styles
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Wouldn't episodic be better for syndication where a channel may not worry about broadcasting in sequence?
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:22
Thrombin
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I don't agree that all dramas should have a chronological flow. Although it depends on the type of show. A show like Game of thrones wouldn't work if it wasn't serilalized. But shows with open and wider worlds with different adventure opportunties like Star trek work well with standalone episodes. I mean episodes should reference what has happened previously but the problem with arc is the constant reminder and focus on main arcs. What i love about standalones is it allows the characters to do and face different challenges and not feel the need for us to learn yet another piece of the puzzle that won't be solved for a long time.

Doctor Who and The Libarians still maintain standalone episodes. Doctor Who will reference past events and small titbits about the current arc, but it doesn't allow the references to dominate the whole episode and cause the current story to be chucked to the side
I agree, I've no problem with character development but that isn't mutually exclusive with episodic shows. Those were the type of shows I grew up with and I still really like them that way. When an episode of a show is just a progression of the main arc and isn't a self-contained story in it's own right it requires a lot more dedication and effort on behalf of the viewer to remain engaged.

Not that that effort isn't often rewarding but sometimes you just want a bit of instant gratification rather than be racking your brains about some as yet undisclosed mystery that means you don't really understand what you're watching until the series has finished!
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:25
GDK
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Sorry.

The appeal of episodic, standalone TV with its never-ending supply of weekly interchangeable guest stars as
villain/long-lost/friend/ex/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife/son/daughter/father/mother
/brother/uncle/auntie/cousin/sister of-the-week, never-to-be-seen-again characters and simplistic, hour long (actually 42 minutes long) stories that have no consequences for the lead characters has paled for me.

Phew!
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:39
GDK
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I agree, I've no problem with character development but that isn't mutually exclusive with episodic shows. Those were the type of shows I grew up with and I still really like them that way. When an episode of a show is just a progression of the main arc and isn't a self-contained story in it's own right it requires a lot more dedication and effort on behalf of the viewer to remain engaged.

Not that that effort isn't often rewarding but sometimes you just want a bit of instant gratification rather than be racking your brains about some as yet undisclosed mystery that means you don't really understand what you're watching until the series has finished!
Well, it is possible to combine an arc with individual stories that are complete in themselves and have a pay-off within the episode. Any long, multi-threaded, multi-character story can be built from a series of smaller mysteries, developments and resolutions. A single episode can tell a story about or focus on a particular character or situation, like a chapter in a book, and resolve it or leave it on a cliff hanger. Single episodes can be satisfying and yet still be part of a larger narrative. Most of Babylon 5 is like that. Even Game of Thrones has periods where the story focuses on a single situation or character.

Obviously the viewer does get much more out of such an episode if he/she is aware of the context in the larger story.
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:45
little-monster
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I agree, I've no problem with character development but that isn't mutually exclusive with episodic shows. Those were the type of shows I grew up with and I still really like them that way. When an episode of a show is just a progression of the main arc and isn't a self-contained story in it's own right it requires a lot more dedication and effort on behalf of the viewer to remain engaged.

Not that that effort isn't often rewarding but sometimes you just want a bit of instant gratification rather than be racking your brains about some as yet undisclosed mystery that means you don't really understand what you're watching until the series has finished!
Thanks for agreeing. Yeah i agree with what you say as well.
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Old 18-08-2016, 15:33
blueisthecolour
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If we're talking about not like long running mystery/drama arcs where nothing substantial happens for a few episodes, I completely understand that. I personally prefer that type of story telling but even I get frustrated some times.

I don't know if any of you have seen The Mentalist but I would highlight as an example of episodic story telling that works well. Each episode is a self contained mystery but they link together with an overarching story and there is real character development and changes to the relationships.

I suppose for me it's really about have an overall 'theme' or direction for a show. I want to feel as something was archived between the first and last episode, it wasn't just a series of random events. I think TNG struggled a bit with that.
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Old 18-08-2016, 16:15
Tassium
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The idea that continuing-arc drama is a higher form of TV is simply not true, it's as commercial as stand-alone episodic TV.

The idea being to force people to commit to watching an entire series. Not just one season but all of it.


Eventually people get board of everything. The stand-alone concept will be re-invented (as movie length episodes perhaps)
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Old 18-08-2016, 17:52
CD93
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Netflix placeholder.
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Old 18-08-2016, 18:22
Flash525
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I hope the Discovery gets blown apart in the first episode, and then they're given a nice new (better designed) ship to continue the show with.
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Old 18-08-2016, 20:07
GDK
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The idea that continuing-arc drama is a higher form of TV is simply not true, it's as commercial as stand-alone episodic TV.

The idea being to force people to commit to watching an entire series. Not just one season but all of it.


Eventually people get board of everything. The stand-alone concept will be re-invented (as movie length episodes perhaps)
Putting words in my mouth to create a straw man argument? I didn't say it was less commercial nor did I say it's a higher form of art. All TV is made to make money for somebody, somewhere.

It's just that, for me, it's a more satisfying form of entertainment than episodic, wash, rinse and repeat TV.

A good drama has central characters that learn something important or experience something significant that changes them or their lives permanently. Episodic TV is the exact opposite. The central characters don't grow, don't learn so as to keep the series format unchanged.

In episodic TV nothing happens of any significance to the central characters. By the end of each episode they're back exactly where they started. The never-to-be-seen-again guest-of-the-week may have had their life changed but that's the only source of drama.

I don't see people getting bored of long form TV with its opportunity to tell more complex and engaging stories anytime soon.

I do think that longer episodes would be a good idea though. That longer duration would create an opportunity to tell more satisfying stories within an episodic style.

Perhaps it's partly a symptom of shortened storytelling time we get nowadays in US network TV shows. It's around 42 minutes in a 60 minute slot. Back in the 1960s it was more like 50 minutes. That's quite a reduction and it is due to commercialism.
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Old 18-08-2016, 20:56
RebelScum
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"My name is Barash"
"To me you'll always be Jean-Luc"

...never to be seen or mentioned again
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Old 18-08-2016, 21:06
JDF
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"My name is Barash"
"To me you'll always be Jean-Luc"

...never to be seen or mentioned again
But also there was Vash in 3 eps of STAR TREK 2 on TNG 1 on DSN

1. Captains Holiday
2. Qpid
3.Q-Less
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Old 18-08-2016, 22:09
RebelScum
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But also there was Vash in 3 eps of STAR TREK 2 on TNG 1 on DSN

1. Captains Holiday
2. Qpid
3.Q-Less
There was a lot of continuity in TNG, and in those instances it added character development and enriched the wider Star Trek universe. The sand-alones weren't a bad thing in themselves, some of them were great, but when they ignored what had gone before or some apparently significant event was never mentioned again, it cheapened the series to a point imo.
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Old 19-08-2016, 07:10
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I think you can achieve a happy medium between the two. DS9 did it pretty well. even ENT showed signs of it in its last 2 seasons.

most shows suit serialized but star trek isn't "most shows". with the universe/galaxy being full of the mysterious wonders and numerous alien civilisations that it is- I feel trek needs to still have plenty of standalone episodes to really capture the magic of what the show is about.
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