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Did Elaine really racially abuse Tamwar?


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Old 11-11-2015, 05:31
DelicateKitten
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The big deal Nancy is making about this as well as Tamwar. I think Elaine was ignorant but not racist.
They seem to forget Shabnams blatant racism towards Carol for being a white woman dating her father.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:48
NELLIENASH
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No - she was insensitive - what she inferred was that should Nancy and Tamwar get close she was fearful that she may convert to Islam. She is entitled to express her reservations however there are more sensitive ways of saying it rather than "don't get any funny ideas".
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:16
londongirlGre
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No, she wasn't. She was just rude.
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:17
The_abbott
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Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:22
bass55
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Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
This.

Lou Beale even used to call the corner shop "the p*ki shop". Shocking to a 2015 audience, but as you said, having characters say these things is realistic. Just like Linda's initial reaction when Johnny came out. Not everyone will be comfortable with such views, but they do exist and EastEnders is supposed to reflect real life. I think it is a sign of the writing team's confidence that they can portray and confront such attitudes within the show. EastEnders shied away from this sort of thing for a long time.
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:51
doormouse1
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I think Elaine was just being insensitive, and didn;t think before she spoke.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:34
srhgts
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I don't think she racially abused him but she was... racially insensitive?
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:41
Doctor Bench
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Insensitive but not racist. I prefer when EE reflects real life.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:52
darrenjl
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The violence in EastEnders in the 1980s was pretty shocking too, there's a scene on YouTube where Den slaps both Sharon and Angie on the face.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:35
AcerBen
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Might have misheard but didn't she say something like that's not a proper wedding?
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:14
trevor tiger
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No - she was insensitive - what she inferred was that should Nancy and Tamwar get close she was fearful that she may convert to Islam. She is entitled to express her reservations however there are more sensitive ways of saying it rather than "don't get any funny ideas".
She said and did a bit more than that. She gave him a filthy look and a nasty mouthful for him bringing Kamil over though that seemed more about Nancy and Whitney not working, still there was no need for her to be so rude. However, she then laughed at what Nancy was wearing at Shabnam's, wedding, a salwar kameez, she called Shabnam's wedding IE a Muslim wedding weird and she said those people have different customs and that saris are alright but not on a wedding day. All this on top of warning Nancy not to get funny ideas. She was more than just rude and Tam has been astonishingly good about it.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:19
trevor tiger
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Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
I don't really understand the correlation I want EE to reflect real life but also I want to comment on it and if EE are reflecting racism which exists in the real world then I want to comment on that and I don't see why commenting on something that EE are deliberately reflecting would lead to the show being taken off. It doesn't make sense, surely they want us to discuss it.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:23
bass55
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I don't really understand the correlation I want EE to reflect real life but also I want to comment on it and if EE are reflecting racism which exists in the real world then I want to comment on that and I don't see why commenting on something that EE are deliberately reflecting would lead to the show being taken off. It doesn't make sense, surely they want us to discuss it.
I think the_abbott was making the point that people on forums/social media are so outraged at the mere mention of anything not completely politically-correct that EastEnders simply would not have lasted very long. It would have bowed to public pressure and not broadcast such controversial material as it did in its early years.

I applaud the inclusion of Elaine and Nancy's discussion in Monday's episode, because it is a reflection of real life and has led to some interesting debate here. But I also have no doubt that many people will have complained about it.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:36
Desert_Rain
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Elaine was bloody rude, but then she's rude to everybody. I don't think she was being racist.

When Tamwars relatives turned up, took one look at Nancy and took a disliking to her clothes, the hurried her upstairs to change her into a sari, despite the fact she was completely uncomfortable with it.

I'm sure people would be outraged if a similar scenario happened the other way around but there is usually a double standard with these things.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:42
trevor tiger
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I think the_abbott was making the point that people on forums/social media are so outraged at the mere mention of anything not completely politically-correct that EastEnders simply would not have lasted very long. It would have bowed to public pressure and not broadcast such controversial material as it did in its early years.

I applaud the inclusion of Elaine and Nancy's discussion in Monday's episode, because it is a reflection of real life and has led to some interesting debate here. But I also have no doubt that many people will have complained about it.
I understand the point I just don't agree it would have resulted in the show being taken off the air. Like you say now, many people may have complained about racism in EE during this episode but there is no way it will result in the show being taken off the air.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:42
cas1977
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She said and did a bit more than that. She gave him a filthy look and a nasty mouthful for him bringing Kamil over though that seemed more about Nancy and Whitney not working, still there was no need for her to be so rude. However, she then laughed at what Nancy was wearing at Shabnam's, wedding, a salwar kameez, she called Shabnam's wedding IE a Muslim wedding weird and she said those people have different customs and that saris are alright but not on a wedding day. All this on top of warning Nancy not to get funny ideas. She was more than just rude and Tam has been astonishingly good about it.
What is so wrong with her finding saris worn on a wedding day not to her taste? They wouldn't be would they?

The "funny ideas" line was Elaine justifiably concerned with Nancy converting to islam, given the fact that so far she's not shown any leaning to any religion and given the non western element to Islam, I can understand her viewpoint.

Calling something weird that isn't to your taste may not be the most mature thing to say, although she did say she liked saris.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:45
cas1977
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Elaine was bloody rude, but then she's rude to everybody. I don't think she was being racist.

When Tamwars relatives turned up, took one look at Nancy and took a disliking to her clothes, the hurried her upstairs to change her into a sari, despite the fact she was completely uncomfortable with it.

I'm sure people would be outraged if a similar scenario happened the other way around but there is usually a double standard with these things.
I didn't see that particular episode, but yes, it is obvious there are double standards. I wonder what people would have said had it been the other way round....

A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters!
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:47
Desert_Rain
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I didn't see that particular episode, but yes, it is obvious there are double standards. I wonder what people would have said had it been the other way round....

A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters!


She even said to Tamwar that she didn't want to wear it, but he dismissed her feelings.

BIB I can only imagine the complaints if it happened that way
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:49
trevor tiger
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What is so wrong with her finding saris worn on a wedding day not to her taste? They wouldn't be would they?

The "funny ideas" line was Elaine justifiably concerned with Nancy converting to islam, given the fact that so far she's not shown any leaning to any religion and given the non western element to Islam, I can understand her viewpoint.

Calling something weird that isn't to your taste may not be the most mature thing to say, although she did say she liked saris.
I'm not too sure what point you're making You are right in everything you say but surely the point is was she rude and nasty, insensitive and or racist. Unless you're saying she wasn't being any of these things Fair do's

In my view she was definitely being racist. Saying 'those' people is the essence of racism. Like bass said, I applaud EE for showing this. It's highly realistic and honest.
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Old 11-11-2015, 16:51
Desert_Rain
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I'm not too sure what point you're making You are right in everything you say but surely the point is was she rude and nasty, insensitive and or racist. Unless you're saying she wasn't being any of these things Fair do's

In my view she was definitely being racist. Saying 'those' people is the essence of racism. Like bass said, I applaud EE for showing this. It's highly realistic and honest.
Rightly or wrongly, she was referring to their religion, she would have said the exact same thing if they were white.

I don't believe for a moment Elaines comments were inspired by Tamwar not being white.
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Old 11-11-2015, 17:18
londongirlGre
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She even said to Tamwar that she didn't want to wear it, but he dismissed her feelings.

BIB I can only imagine the complaints if it happened that way
I don't think Tamwar dismissed her feelings. He told her that she looking beautiful in the outfit and that she can wear salver kameez (sp?), despite not being a Muslim.
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Old 11-11-2015, 17:29
trevor tiger
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I didn't see that particular episode, but yes, it is obvious there are double standards. I wonder what people would have said had it been the other way round....

A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters!
I saw it and it was really uncomfortable. Those aunties certainly didn't endear themselves to me and I didn't think Tam was being very helpful either. However, there are no double standards as they are not comparable situations. For it to be comparable the aunties would have had to walk in on Tam looking at pictures of say Lee's wedding to Whitney and the aunties laughing at the clothes, saying the wedding was weird and saying those people have different customs among other things.

There's also of course not the history or culture there is of deriding ethnicity and or Islam.

Rightly or wrongly, she was referring to their religion, she would have said the exact same thing if they were white.

I don't believe for a moment Elaines comments were inspired by Tamwar not being white.
Ok then it was Islamophobia if you like
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Old 11-11-2015, 17:36
Foxster Hotpot
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No she did not racially abuse Tamwar. I think Nancy is overreacting to the comments and being ruder back to Elaine than she ever was in the first place.
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Old 11-11-2015, 17:43
Desert_Rain
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I don't think Tamwar dismissed her feelings. He told her that she looking beautiful in the outfit and that she can wear salver kameez (sp?), despite not being a Muslim.
Yes to be fair, he was probably just trying to make her feel more comfortable.

Those women still behaved badly though, and it wouldn't have hurt Tam to ask his relatives to let her be.
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Old 11-11-2015, 17:53
Foxster Hotpot
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Elaine not wanting Nancy to have a muslim wedding is not racist
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