|
||||||||
Did Elaine really racially abuse Tamwar? |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 451
|
Did Elaine really racially abuse Tamwar?
The big deal Nancy is making about this as well as Tamwar. I think Elaine was ignorant but not racist.
They seem to forget Shabnams blatant racism towards Carol for being a white woman dating her father. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 774
|
No - she was insensitive - what she inferred was that should Nancy and Tamwar get close she was fearful that she may convert to Islam. She is entitled to express her reservations however there are more sensitive ways of saying it rather than "don't get any funny ideas".
|
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,425
|
No, she wasn't. She was just rude.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ronnie's bed
Posts: 20,574
|
Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
|
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 9,413
|
Quote:
Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
Lou Beale even used to call the corner shop "the p*ki shop". Shocking to a 2015 audience, but as you said, having characters say these things is realistic. Just like Linda's initial reaction when Johnny came out. Not everyone will be comfortable with such views, but they do exist and EastEnders is supposed to reflect real life. I think it is a sign of the writing team's confidence that they can portray and confront such attitudes within the show. EastEnders shied away from this sort of thing for a long time. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 4,645
|
I think Elaine was just being insensitive, and didn;t think before she spoke.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,564
|
I don't think she racially abused him but she was... racially insensitive?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London
Posts: 3,298
|
Insensitive but not racist. I prefer when EE reflects real life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 44
|
The violence in EastEnders in the 1980s was pretty shocking too, there's a scene on YouTube where Den slaps both Sharon and Angie on the face.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,155
|
Might have misheard but didn't she say something like that's not a proper wedding?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,735
|
Quote:
No - she was insensitive - what she inferred was that should Nancy and Tamwar get close she was fearful that she may convert to Islam. She is entitled to express her reservations however there are more sensitive ways of saying it rather than "don't get any funny ideas".
|
|
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,735
|
Quote:
Imagine if forums/social media was around in the 80's. EE would have only lasted 3 months not 30 years. In some ways having characters say these things is realistic. You can't shy away from it. Its like Alfie's comment to ALeks about "you people taking our jobs".
I want EE to reflect real life but also I want to comment on it and if EE are reflecting racism which exists in the real world then I want to comment on that and I don't see why commenting on something that EE are deliberately reflecting would lead to the show being taken off. It doesn't make sense, surely they want us to discuss it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 9,413
|
Quote:
I don't really understand the correlation
I want EE to reflect real life but also I want to comment on it and if EE are reflecting racism which exists in the real world then I want to comment on that and I don't see why commenting on something that EE are deliberately reflecting would lead to the show being taken off. It doesn't make sense, surely they want us to discuss it.I applaud the inclusion of Elaine and Nancy's discussion in Monday's episode, because it is a reflection of real life and has led to some interesting debate here. But I also have no doubt that many people will have complained about it. |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,034
|
Elaine was bloody rude, but then she's rude to everybody. I don't think she was being racist.
When Tamwars relatives turned up, took one look at Nancy and took a disliking to her clothes, the hurried her upstairs to change her into a sari, despite the fact she was completely uncomfortable with it. I'm sure people would be outraged if a similar scenario happened the other way around but there is usually a double standard with these things. |
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,735
|
Quote:
I think the_abbott was making the point that people on forums/social media are so outraged at the mere mention of anything not completely politically-correct that EastEnders simply would not have lasted very long. It would have bowed to public pressure and not broadcast such controversial material as it did in its early years.
I applaud the inclusion of Elaine and Nancy's discussion in Monday's episode, because it is a reflection of real life and has led to some interesting debate here. But I also have no doubt that many people will have complained about it. |
|
|
|
|
|
#16 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Costa Blanca Spain
Posts: 6,286
|
Quote:
She said and did a bit more than that. She gave him a filthy look and a nasty mouthful for him bringing Kamil over though that seemed more about Nancy and Whitney not working, still there was no need for her to be so rude. However, she then laughed at what Nancy was wearing at Shabnam's, wedding, a salwar kameez, she called Shabnam's wedding IE a Muslim wedding weird and she said those people have different customs and that saris are alright but not on a wedding day. All this on top of warning Nancy not to get funny ideas. She was more than just rude and Tam has been astonishingly good about it.
The "funny ideas" line was Elaine justifiably concerned with Nancy converting to islam, given the fact that so far she's not shown any leaning to any religion and given the non western element to Islam, I can understand her viewpoint. Calling something weird that isn't to your taste may not be the most mature thing to say, although she did say she liked saris. |
|
|
|
|
|
#17 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Costa Blanca Spain
Posts: 6,286
|
Quote:
Elaine was bloody rude, but then she's rude to everybody. I don't think she was being racist.
When Tamwars relatives turned up, took one look at Nancy and took a disliking to her clothes, the hurried her upstairs to change her into a sari, despite the fact she was completely uncomfortable with it. I'm sure people would be outraged if a similar scenario happened the other way around but there is usually a double standard with these things. A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#18 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,034
|
Quote:
I didn't see that particular episode, but yes, it is obvious there are double standards. I wonder what people would have said had it been the other way round....
A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters! ![]() She even said to Tamwar that she didn't want to wear it, but he dismissed her feelings. BIB I can only imagine the complaints if it happened that way
|
|
|
|
|
|
#19 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,735
|
Quote:
What is so wrong with her finding saris worn on a wedding day not to her taste? They wouldn't be would they?
The "funny ideas" line was Elaine justifiably concerned with Nancy converting to islam, given the fact that so far she's not shown any leaning to any religion and given the non western element to Islam, I can understand her viewpoint. Calling something weird that isn't to your taste may not be the most mature thing to say, although she did say she liked saris. You are right in everything you say but surely the point is was she rude and nasty, insensitive and or racist. Unless you're saying she wasn't being any of these things Fair do's ![]() In my view she was definitely being racist. Saying 'those' people is the essence of racism. Like bass said, I applaud EE for showing this. It's highly realistic and honest. |
|
|
|
|
|
#20 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,034
|
Quote:
I'm not too sure what point you're making
You are right in everything you say but surely the point is was she rude and nasty, insensitive and or racist. Unless you're saying she wasn't being any of these things Fair do's ![]() In my view she was definitely being racist. Saying 'those' people is the essence of racism. Like bass said, I applaud EE for showing this. It's highly realistic and honest. I don't believe for a moment Elaines comments were inspired by Tamwar not being white. |
|
|
|
|
|
#21 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,425
|
Quote:
She even said to Tamwar that she didn't want to wear it, but he dismissed her feelings.
BIB I can only imagine the complaints if it happened that way ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#22 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,735
|
Quote:
I didn't see that particular episode, but yes, it is obvious there are double standards. I wonder what people would have said had it been the other way round....
A young muslim girl in traditional muslim dress being told to go and wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers in case she were to upset the Carters! ![]() There's also of course not the history or culture there is of deriding ethnicity and or Islam. Quote:
Rightly or wrongly, she was referring to their religion, she would have said the exact same thing if they were white.
I don't believe for a moment Elaines comments were inspired by Tamwar not being white. ![]()
|
|
|
|
|
|
#23 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Martin Fowler
Posts: 11,362
|
No she did not racially abuse Tamwar. I think Nancy is overreacting to the comments and being ruder back to Elaine than she ever was in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#24 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,034
|
Quote:
I don't think Tamwar dismissed her feelings. He told her that she looking beautiful in the outfit and that she can wear salver kameez (sp?), despite not being a Muslim.
Those women still behaved badly though, and it wouldn't have hurt Tam to ask his relatives to let her be. |
|
|
|
|
|
#25 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Martin Fowler
Posts: 11,362
|
Elaine not wanting Nancy to have a muslim wedding is not racist
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 14:16.



I want EE to reflect real life but also I want to comment on it and if EE are reflecting racism which exists in the real world then I want to comment on that and I don't see why commenting on something that EE are deliberately reflecting would lead to the show being taken off. It doesn't make sense, surely they want us to discuss it.
Fair do's 