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Results:What did you think of this episode?
Excellent
266 (56.36%)
Good
119 (25.21%)
Average
50 (10.59%)
Poor
19 (4.03%)
Awful
18 (3.81%)
Voters: 472. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?
Doctor Who S9E10: Face The Raven BBC1/HD. 21/11/2015 20:10. Official Thread
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Koquillion
15-11-2015
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“I still feel like burying my head in a pillow with Jo's goodbye at the end of The Green Death.”

6 when that happened. Broke my bloody heart.
thenetworkbabe
15-11-2015
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“I still feel like burying my head in a pillow with Jo's goodbye at the end of The Green Death.”

Maisie Williams on the trailer voice over leaves an immortal being, determined to save the ones the doctor leaves behind, on the loose.

I think this is repeating Billy's last series - only its worse - the story is Clara going, with inconsquential stuff in between steps to that . Far better to see what a second series established team would look like.

Saw Katy Manning in a play in north London a few weeks ago. She still is Jo . She fell over the props twice too......
BlackTarantula
16-11-2015
I posted some ideas in the other thread earlier and now I have another one that I think I'll share here. If Clara really is forced to face the raven, could the big, surprise, shocking twist be that
Spoiler
it is unable to kill her, revealing her to the Hybrid, and she then starts regenerating?
Bit of a wild theory, I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we finally learn something about the Hybrid in this episode...
kninemark2
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by BlackTarantula:
“I posted some ideas in the other thread earlier and now I have another one that I think I'll share here. If Clara really is forced to face the raven, could the big, surprise, shocking twist be that
Spoiler
it is unable to kill her, revealing her to the Hybrid, and she then starts regenerating into Missy
Bit of a wild theory, I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we finally learn something about the Hybrid in this episode...”

Added a bit to your spoiler #bootstrap : )
JAS84
16-11-2015
Clara only has one heart, and if she's Missy, she would have two, as she wouldn't be the Master's first incarnation. And if she's fobwatched, she wouldn't be able to regenerate. She's not Missy.
Alrightmate
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“that TV trailer is so much better than the next time one. Totally different in tone. If they want to be pulling viewers in then surely highlighting the drama and peril are part of that? The Next Time trailer made it look like a quaint episode.”

You're right. This trailer is significantly better than the next time trailer.
Hopefully they'll be showing it on TV from today onwards.
dave_windows
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by Peter Capaldi:
“She dead...”

Shes not dead shes in the cast list for the episode finale.
dave_windows
16-11-2015
Plus in the trailer you can clearly see a Ood elecruting a Cyberman.
Alrightmate
16-11-2015
Would it be fair to say that......
Spoiler
....Rigsy is certain to be the new companion? Or at least one of them?
Whovian1109
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“Would it be fair to say that......
Spoiler
....Rigsy is certain to be the new companion? Or at least one of them?
”

Not if the Moff is to be believed.
star89
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by Lord Smexy:
“I'm really nervous about this whole Clara leaving business because I'm just not ready to say goodbye to her and frankly I think this is going to tear me apart. Despite a shaky start in Series 7, I've really grown to love her character, she's become essential in being the relatable and loveable character for me as opposed to the darker and more mysterious Peter Capaldi (which I think is how it should be), so the idea of the modern show carrying on without her now is quite daunting to me and I'm really hoping Moffat isn't too cruel to her in killing her off or however she goes.”

I'm not watching the episode! I will wait to read what happened and if she dies I'm definitely not watching

Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“Can Clara be wanting to join her lost " dead" Danny Pink? The Cyberman is the clue and she wants to be brave and volunteers to go.”

If that useless, waste of screen time is in anyway involved, I will drive to Moffat's house and strangle him with my bare hands
Vopiscus
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by dave_windows:
“Shes not dead shes in the cast list for the episode finale.”

But - if you can endure the trauma - remember Adric's cameo appearance in Time-Flight. His presence in that story's cast list was apparently intended to make his actual death in the previous story come as a shock/lovely surprise.
david_Robinson
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by BlackTarantula:
“I posted some ideas in the other thread earlier and now I have another one that I think I'll share here. If Clara really is forced to face the raven, could the big, surprise, shocking twist be that
Spoiler
it is unable to kill her, revealing her to the Hybrid, and she then starts regenerating?
”

Spoiler
Then she turns in to River and steals his TARDIS
lotrjw
16-11-2015
Originally Posted by david_Robinson:
“
Spoiler
Then she turns in to River and steals his TARDIS
”

That wont happen!
Cameron KMcEwan
17-11-2015
Positive spoiler-free review from Blogtor Who

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/201...ries-9-ep.html
Whoswho1
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Cameron KMcEwan:
“Positive spoiler-free review from Blogtor Who

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/201...ries-9-ep.html”

That good? sounds amazing

Some of the comments are hilarious. "Are you being paid"? lol
Abomination
17-11-2015
It's nice to see almost wholly (admittedly only a small number) positive remarks in those comments regarding Series 9. DS is easily the most negative place I've come across regarding the show this year, fan-wise or mainstream (although I've not checked out GB).

And I love how it seems beyond the realms of some people with exceptionally small minds that some people genuinely enjoy what they don't. Tennant gets some endless praise from some people, as an example, and whilst even I think he's okay I can't help but wonder what most people see in him! But I wouldn't for a minute be so condescending to suggest a reviewer that claims to love him is secretly paid to do so.

On a lighter note, Sarah Dollard responded to someone's question about how to ever get into writing on Doctor Who. Her response is particularly lengthy but fantastic. She talks a bit about what is her own approach to writing, accepting criticism and is also refreshingly positive about Tumblr (which gets a bad rep, but has a wonderful side to it that often gets dismissed). Spoilered the full response, and copied the brief bit about Doctor Who itself beneath...

Spoiler
My dream is to be a screenwriter (especially for Doctor Who). Do you have any advice?

I tried to answer this concisely. I failed. Please excuse the rambling screed that follows…

Write. Write every day, in one way or another. If you don’t love writing, then choose another dream. Sometimes writing is hard. Sometimes it’s the worst and you hate it and you hate yourself, and you think you should probably stop for the good of all humanity and maybe make cabinets instead because at least cabinets are useful. Those feelings are normal, don’t worry. But if you go through all that guff and still wake up the next day and love writing all over again, then you’re a writer. Congratulations/commiserations.

Eavesdrop. Wherever you go, listen shamelessly to people talking. Soak up the rhythms of speech. Collect idioms and slang. Relish the different ways that people lie, flatter, disparage, condescend, flirt, threaten and divert. Think about how people’s words would look on the page as dialogue. Has someone used a word or turn of phrase you’ve never heard before? If so, leap upon it. Note down scraps of dialogue that particularly delight you (I store quotes in the notes app on my phone). Even if you never look at that note again, by writing it down you’ll have filed it away in your brain for another time. Listen for what people aren’t saying. Can you sense when someone is deliberately holding back? How? What are they revealing about themselves and their motives without realising it? Does their tone of voice or their body language contradict their words? If so, how would you succinctly express that on the page of a script so that your reader understands what isn’t being said? Basically be nosy as hell. It’s fun.

Read scripts and screenplays. Read as many as you can get your hands on. Read a script, then re-read it while watching the finished product on screen. Learn how screenwriters put words on the page in a very different way to prose writers. Get to know the styles of different screenwriters, and develop your own opinion of what works and what doesn’t. You can find a whole library of TV scripts at the BBC Writer’s Room, and there are loads of feature film scripts to be found free online. Also, you can usually find published screenplays going cheapish at second-hand bookstores – they’re often stashed in with the plays.

Learn about the industry. If you’re lucky enough to have IRL access to someone who works in TV or film, pick their brains. If you don’t, then check out blogs and podcasts from industry professionals to build up a picture of what your dream job entails. Make sure it’s the right world for you. I highly recommend the Children of Tendu podcast from TV writers Javier Grillo-Marxuach (Lost, The Middleman, Helix) and Jose Molina (Sleeply Hollow, Agent Carter, Firefly). Javier and Jose share a wealth of advice and experience from the world of TV writing in the US, most of which is still relevant for those of us in other countries. The Nerdist Writers Panel is also great if you want to hear from a broader selection of writers, but I think the best thing about Children of Tendu is that Javier and Jose seem like genuinely nice humans who value working with other genuinely nice humans. They talk a lot about how to remain a good person while working in TV – a vital subject for every writer or would-be writer at any stage in their career.

Consume stories in a thoughtful way. Watch TV, watch movies, read novels, read fanfic, read non-fiction, read the news. Obviously you do all of that stuff already, but if you can, try to do it with an awareness of story and craft. Think about how each story is told. Where it begins, how it ends, what voice is used to tell it. You know, all that fun stuff from English class at school. If a story was well told, think about why it worked. If it was unclear or unsatisfying, think about that too. I’m pretty sure the bulk of my education about film and TV has come (and continues to come) from passionately dissecting stories with my friends after we exit the movie theatre or switch off the TV. If you’re enjoying a story so much you forget to think about the storyteller’s choices, odds are they did a really good job. So, watch/read that story again. This is where being an obsessive fangirl really pays off and puts us ahead of the pack.

Be critical of film and TV, even the stuff you love. One of the things I love most about tumblr is the widely accepted truth of the problematic fave. If you want to be a truly good writer, you can’t have sacred cows. If other people think an episode of your favourite show is sexist or racist or short-sighted in some way, hear them out and consider their point of view. You can enjoy a piece of media while also acknowledging its shortcomings. However, if you hold your favourite writer or producer above criticism, then you’ll likely fall into the same traps as they do, and you too may alienate or hurt people with your work. Accept that no one is perfect, not even your hero. Accept that no one’s writing is perfect, even if it’s hugely entertaining; we all have unconscious hang-ups and prejudices, and many of us write from a position of privilege. One of the best things you can do as a writer (and a person) is to listen to the way other people receive stories. Tumblr is brilliant for this. Accepting that your fave might be problematic is hard, but doing so won’t negate the things you still love about that episode, or that show, or that creator. On the other hand, being a good listener and practicing empathy will make you a better writer and a better person.

Learn how to accept criticism of your own work. This is hard. If you’re a writer, then odds are you’re probably the sensitive sort. We pour our hearts into our stories, and make ourselves vulnerable when we give them over to an audience; of course it’s going to sting when we receive criticism. But know this: how you take criticism is going to define you as a writer for the rest of your career. Writing for TV involves working in a team, which means getting regular professional feedback on your ideas and your writing. If you fall apart every time your pitch doesn’t fly, or get defensive at every note on your script, your career is going to grind to a halt very quickly. No one will want to work with you, and your writing will stagnate. Of course, not every note you get is going to be helpful; a big part of the job is sorting the good notes from the bad, and learning how to react to both with equal grace. Not everyone you work with will be smarter than you, but if you’re really lucky they will be. Stick to the smart people like glue, listen to their criticism, learn how to respond to it, and let it improve your work. Even when it hurts.

As for writing for Doctor Who specifically… There’s no simple advice for that. Um… get some other TV writing credits under your belt? Live/work in the UK. Show aptitude for writing sci-fi/fantasy TV. Have a good spec script to showcase your skills. Be chock full of Doctor Who story ideas and Very Strong Opinions about the show, so that when someone asks you why you’d like to write for Doctor Who you can chew their ear off for hours until they cry mercy and give you a chance at a script.

I hope that helps! Good luck with your writing.

As for writing for Doctor Who specifically… There’s no simple advice for that. Um… get some other TV writing credits under your belt? Live/work in the UK. Show aptitude for writing sci-fi/fantasy TV. Have a good spec script to showcase your skills. Be chock full of Doctor Who story ideas and Very Strong Opinions about the show, so that when someone asks you why you’d like to write for Doctor Who you can chew their ear off for hours until they cry mercy and give you a chance at a script.
Abomination
17-11-2015
Also,
21 Teasers for Face the Raven, from mcmbuzz.com

Spoiler
1 - It’s a lovely, sweet, charming episode with lots of surprises and a few nasty shocks.
2 - It’s small in scale but huge in ramifications.
3 - There are a lot of wonderful visual gimmicks, the kind of imagery that years from now you’ll be going, “Do you remember the one where…?”
4 - It starts as one thing – a whodunnit – and end as something else entirely.
5 - Rigsy is great and we learn a lot about him.
6 - Me is used in a very interesting way – her best episode yet.
7 - The main conceit of the episode – how a major element would actually function – doesn’t bare close scrutiny (or even distant scrutiny in bad light) – but don’t get hung up on that; go with the flow and enjoy it for what it is.
8 - It’s very Harry Potter in places and not just because of the Diagon Alley doppelgänger glimpsed in the trailer – there’s an evocative dark fantasy feel reminiscent of the last few films.
9 - “Good, weird, good and weird.”
10 - A prop from earlier in the season makes a reappearance – and it’s not the guitar
11 - Rigsy gets very upset at being called Rigsy.
12 - There is yet another one of those electrifying, elongated dialogues that have become such a strong feature of this season.
13 - The Doctor acknowledges that Clara has on ongoing problem
14 - There one idea that may possibly have been inspired by one of China Mieville’s greatest short stories.
15 - There’s a really fun montage sequence with a voiceover by the Doctor.
16 - Remember 82. Possibly. Or possibly it’s a red herring.
17 - Something controversial from Torchwood makes a reappearance.
18 - More than one character is two-faced.
19 - Clara’s love of Jane Austen takes an unexpected new twist.
20 - The Doctor’s final line is an absolute classic – expect to see it on t-shirts.
21 - Stick with it until after the credits… and not for the Next Week trailer.
Tom Tit
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Whovian1109:
“Not if the Moff is to be believed.”

Generally speaking he isn't but I damn well hope so in this case.
sebbie3000
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Vopiscus:
“But - if you can endure the trauma - remember Adric's cameo appearance in Time-Flight. His presence in that story's cast list was apparently intended to make his actual death in the previous story come as a shock/lovely surprise.”

This made me lol!
Whoswho1
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Abomination:
“Also,
21 Teasers for Face the Raven, from mcmbuzz.com

Spoiler
1 - It’s a lovely, sweet, charming episode with lots of surprises and a few nasty shocks.
2 - It’s small in scale but huge in ramifications.
3 - There are a lot of wonderful visual gimmicks, the kind of imagery that years from now you’ll be going, “Do you remember the one where…?”
4 - It starts as one thing – a whodunnit – and end as something else entirely.
5 - Rigsy is great and we learn a lot about him.
6 - Me is used in a very interesting way – her best episode yet.
7 - The main conceit of the episode – how a major element would actually function – doesn’t bare close scrutiny (or even distant scrutiny in bad light) – but don’t get hung up on that; go with the flow and enjoy it for what it is.
8 - It’s very Harry Potter in places and not just because of the Diagon Alley doppelgänger glimpsed in the trailer – there’s an evocative dark fantasy feel reminiscent of the last few films.
9 - “Good, weird, good and weird.”
10 - A prop from earlier in the season makes a reappearance – and it’s not the guitar
11 - Rigsy gets very upset at being called Rigsy.
12 - There is yet another one of those electrifying, elongated dialogues that have become such a strong feature of this season.
13 - The Doctor acknowledges that Clara has on ongoing problem
14 - There one idea that may possibly have been inspired by one of China Mieville’s greatest short stories.
15 - There’s a really fun montage sequence with a voiceover by the Doctor.
16 - Remember 82. Possibly. Or possibly it’s a red herring.
17 - Something controversial from Torchwood makes a reappearance.
18 - More than one character is two-faced.
19 - Clara’s love of Jane Austen takes an unexpected new twist.
20 - The Doctor’s final line is an absolute classic – expect to see it on t-shirts.
21 - Stick with it until after the credits… and not for the Next Week trailer.
”

sounds like this new writer is a keeper.
Whoswho1
17-11-2015
@boydhilton
New Who writer Sarah Dollard has done a brilliant job with the next episode Face The Raven - it's riveting from start to finish. #DoctorWho
The_Bonobo
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Abomination:
“It's nice to see almost wholly (admittedly only a small number) positive remarks in those comments regarding Series 9. DS is easily the most negative place I've come across regarding the show this year, fan-wise or mainstream (although I've not checked out GB).”

I have noticed the mostly very positive comments posted for previous episodes too. Many have been saying this is the best series for a long time, which has been my view as well. It is odd how negative "some" on here have been in contrast. Perhaps part of it is that it is a small group who post multiple negative comments (as has been suggested by others) but I am not sure that tells the whole story. Is it just that DS brings out a moaning side? Perhaps it is some form of hypnosis caused by barely noticeable glitches in the signal. Maybe the Doctor should investigate.
Abomination
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Whoswho1:
“sounds like this new writer is a keeper.”

Trying not to get too hyped up, as that doesn't do the show favours, but it does sound like she's done something great with this one. It was an intriguing episode as soon as we heard about it, and we knew so little as well. The Next Time trailer looked stunning, and the TV trailer was even better. From her own outlook and the early reviews, this is sounding very positive.

Originally Posted by The_Bonobo:
“I have noticed the mostly very positive comments posted for previous episodes too. Many have been saying this is the best series for a long time, which has been my view as well. It is odd how negative "some" on here have been in contrast. Perhaps part of it is that it is a small group who post multiple negative comments (as has been suggested by others) but I am not sure that tells the whole story. Is it just that DS brings out a moaning side? Perhaps it is some form of hypnosis caused by barely noticeable glitches in the signal. Maybe the Doctor should investigate.”

I think I've noticed on here you seem to get a lot of exagerration, hyperbole and a sense that everything is really melodramatic. The Zygon Inversion may well be the best-received story for the show in years (across the fan-mainstream spectrum it satisfied a great number of people in a way I can't recall encountering for a regular episode since, perhaps, The Doctor's Wife back in Series 6?) and aside from a few who didn't enjoy it for whatever reason, the comments when stacked up against those for Sleep No More (which has been more poorly received than last year's In The Forest of the Night across that same spectrum) show how quickly a mindset can set in. One episode does superbly and Capaldi delivers what amounted to a stunning near-ten-minute monologue... and suddenly everyone is enthusiastic. The amount of comments about 'diminishing viewing figures' subsided massively, all the doom-mongering eased off and there were people claiming he was now their favourite Doctor, whilst the prospect of a delayed Series 10 mattered to few. In contrast to that, we get a single episode which is received poorly and before you know it the mindset shifts massively - not enough to accept one episode wasn't particularly good (as was the common opinion) we then get to playing blame games and back to the doom-mongering... Capaldi is a poor fit for the show, viewing figures crises, the show needs a break etc. This then affords a platform for those who aren't enjoying the show to feel like they need to add their two cents in agreement with these claims, and it's just negativity breeding negativity.

Some of the arguments I've heard from people determined to hate on the show because they feel a need to justify their own hatred are staggering. As soon as something does very well and is less divisive (Davros coming back, or the Doctor's anti-war speech etc.) then suddenly the negative lot are suggesting that people hated it really, but just can't be bothered to post any more. Of course that doesn't stop them coming out in full force the next time something genuinely divisive comes along, but hey, never let logic stand in the way of a feeble argument, right?

I share your view, that this is the best series in a long time. It's in my top three since 2005, and comfortably so - something I never thought a Moffat-era series was going to do. At the same time, I realise it's not 100% perfect and am more than content on a discussion forum to criticise it where I see fit, or talk with people who don't enjoy it for whatever reason. But there seems to be people who can do that, and then people who spew hatred to the extent they're almost offended if someone thinks the opposite - including regular posters this year, who have multiple times been perplexed that people are enjoying it, or feel inclined to impose a 'clan mentality' (the 'if you didn't like a Moffat-era episode, you're probably the type who likes RTD's rubbish' mentality) because they feel their own hatred of the show needs some kind of all-encompassing recognition. It sucks the enjoyment out of discussing the show, and when it's not enjoyable, it is just a TV show, and so it's not worth it.
Lord Smexy
17-11-2015
Originally Posted by Abomination:
“I think I've noticed on here you seem to get a lot of exagerration, hyperbole and a sense that everything is really melodramatic. The Zygon Inversion may well be the best-received story for the show in years (across the fan-mainstream spectrum it satisfied a great number of people in a way I can't recall encountering for a regular episode since, perhaps, The Doctor's Wife back in Series 6?) and aside from a few who didn't enjoy it for whatever reason, the comments when stacked up against those for Sleep No More (which has been more poorly received than last year's In The Forest of the Night across that same spectrum) show how quickly a mindset can set in. One episode does superbly and Capaldi delivers what amounted to a stunning near-ten-minute monologue... and suddenly everyone is enthusiastic. The amount of comments about 'diminishing viewing figures' subsided massively, all the doom-mongering eased off and there were people claiming he was now their favourite Doctor, whilst the prospect of a delayed Series 10 mattered to few. In contrast to that, we get a single episode which is received poorly and before you know it the mindset shifts massively - not enough to accept one episode wasn't particularly good (as was the common opinion) we then get to playing blame games and back to the doom-mongering... Capaldi is a poor fit for the show, viewing figures crises, the show needs a break etc. This then affords a platform for those who aren't enjoying the show to feel like they need to add their two cents in agreement with these claims, and it's just negativity breeding negativity.”

I remember last year when Series 8 began there was a lot of complaining that it was too dark and humourless, and then suddenly when Robots of Sherwood, it completely changed to people complaining that Doctor Who has become a comedy now and is far too silly based on that episode, despite it being wedged between a few much darker episodes. It's amazing how quick the louder voices change after just one episode.

But I agree, the negativity is beyond irritating and has been for years now. Doctor Who just seems to be an easy target for people to let out their pessimism for the sake of pessism. I see people complaining about things the show has always done and blaming it entirely on Moffat, following into the usual "he's so arrogant" and "this is why he needs to go" complaining.

Even more annoying is when you happen to love Moffat, Capaldi, Coleman, etc. and people try and tell and persuade you why you're wrong and you should think differently. On another site I had some childish fool tell me I wasn't a "true fan" because I like Clara as a companion, and before that someone telling me I wasn't a true fan because I love Moffat's direction and I "don't care about how he's killing the show"

I have no problem with people disliking the direction the show is taking, I just can't stand how people go out of their way to bring it down for others who enjoy it, as though they're threatened by people liking something they don't.
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