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Vodafone Spain scrapping roaming altogether..


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Old 18-11-2015, 21:53
Yossi
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.. I read today that Vodafone in Spain will basically stop roaming charges within the EU and USA. Any news regarding similar moves from Vodafone UK?


Source: http://economia.elpais.com/economia/...24_066771.html
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Old 18-11-2015, 21:55
david16
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Translation please.
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Old 18-11-2015, 22:07
TTTV
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http://www.telecompaper.com/news/vod...plans--1114005
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Old 18-11-2015, 22:25
Gigabit
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Obviously this is going to happen here in 2017 anyway. Whether Vodafone UK announce it before the legal date I don't know.

I wonder if it is a complicated process to make it free.
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Old 18-11-2015, 22:38
Thine Wonk
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The problem is the lost £1BN in revenue that an operator might lose from 2017 will have to be charged somewhere else, basically non EU roaming will go up or other prices will go up, Just like when they forced 0800 numbers to be free, that revenue had to come from somewhere else, in Voda's case that was all other out of bundle costs went up an average of 40% overnight.

Some think talks will cause the June 2017 date to slip as operators argue the finer detail, such as how many days roaming you can do at those rates etc to stop people buying sims in cheap eastern europe countries online and using them on more expensive or premium networks tec.

The same pricing is the per minute pricing for out of bundle, not sure if they're enforcing included network minutes etc in the roaming plans, so the detail will be very important.
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Old 19-11-2015, 08:24
MTUK1
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Obviously this is going to happen here in 2017 anyway. Whether Vodafone UK announce it before the legal date I don't know.

I wonder if it is a complicated process to make it free.
Not for free in the US it won't.
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Old 19-11-2015, 08:25
MTUK1
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The problem is the lost £1BN in revenue that an operator might lose from 2017 will have to be charged somewhere else, basically non EU roaming will go up or other prices will go up, Just like when they forced 0800 numbers to be free, that revenue had to come from somewhere else, in Voda's case that was all other out of bundle costs went up an average of 40% overnight.

Some think talks will cause the June 2017 date to slip as operators argue the finer detail, such as how many days roaming you can do at those rates etc to stop people buying sims in cheap eastern europe countries online and using them on more expensive or premium networks tec.

The same pricing is the per minute pricing for out of bundle, not sure if they're enforcing included network minutes etc in the roaming plans, so the detail will be very important.
Exactly. This is what people celebrating this as a victory can't seem to comprehend. Prices will go up elsewhere.
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Old 19-11-2015, 11:08
Yossi
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Exactly. This is what people celebrating this as a victory can't seem to comprehend. Prices will go up elsewhere.
prices will go up even if roaming doesn't end.
This is what people don't seem to understand either.

Roaming is an aberration because it's an artificial way of inflating charges when abroad.
Quite easily carriers could potentially limit roaming networks to those that belong to the same group.

Vodafone charges UK customers when using European Vodafone networks. That's artificial. As artificial as charging 20p per SMS text.

If corporations had their way, we'd still be paying internet and calls by the minute, not to mention roaming would be astronomical and no one would be able to even use their phone abroad.
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Old 19-11-2015, 11:11
moox
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Exactly. This is what people celebrating this as a victory can't seem to comprehend. Prices will go up elsewhere.
Vodafone UK has used the lowering of the EU roaming cap as an excuse to put up prices for UK usage within the UK. e.g. roaming SMS lowered by 5p or whatever, UK SMS increased by 5p.

I can't wait to pay more to subsidise people who travel often.

prices will go up even if roaming doesn't end.
This is what people don't seem to understand either.

Roaming is an aberration because it's an artificial way of inflating charges when abroad.
Quite easily carriers could potentially limit roaming networks to those that belong to the same group.

Vodafone charges UK customers when using European Vodafone networks. That's artificial. As artificial as charging 20p per SMS text.

If corporations had their way, we'd still be paying internet and calls by the minute, not to mention roaming would be astronomical and no one would be able to even use their phone abroad.
All prices are "artificial" because they're based on cost to provide + whatever profit level is desired and what the market can bear.

They'll increase prices at an even greater rate than they otherwise would have done, is the point being made.
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Old 19-11-2015, 13:55
LegendaryAced
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Vodafone ES increased their plans by a few euros anyway, by increasing their internet allowance slightly. I assume this is to cover the roaming charges, as the small increase of data allowance virtually costs them nothing.

Now, if we take into consideration that people won't be travelling abroad more than 3 times a year for more than two weeks each time and at the same time their phones will prefer the local Vodafone or partner network, this won't cost them much, if at all.
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Old 19-11-2015, 15:55
Thine Wonk
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prices will go up even if roaming doesn't end.
This is what people don't seem to understand either.

Roaming is an aberration because it's an artificial way of inflating charges when abroad.
Quite easily carriers could potentially limit roaming networks to those that belong to the same group.

Vodafone charges UK customers when using European Vodafone networks. That's artificial. As artificial as charging 20p per SMS text.

If corporations had their way, we'd still be paying internet and calls by the minute, not to mention roaming would be astronomical and no one would be able to even use their phone abroad.
They don't have their way though because of a free market and competition, now not wanting to get into a competition debate, but people should consider the following (I know you get this by the way).

Running the network costs x, and other networks have similar costs to yours.
Sales prices are set at Y, so that you can make a margin of Z, where typically Z is an acceptable margin that means competition is working and they are making a margin that the network is happy with and worth their time effort and investment. They can increase margin by selling more services, gaining more customers or saving money through efficiency.

If you're forced artificially to cut prices in one area through regulation, all you do to maintain your margin (and your competitors do the same) is increase other pricing or find ways of maintaining revenue, just like you would if all suppliers suddenly had to pay 20% more for electricity etc. It comes off the operating cost, not the profit as it is a cost that all suppliers equally have to foot the bill for.

All it means is those that use phones a lot in the EU will become subsided by people that don't as per minute rates rise to compensate for the change. Consumers never actually save money by regulation specifying price caps in a single area of a business. The classic example is Vodafone's 40% average per minute rate increases when previous price caps were enforced by the EU (15p rate etc).
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Old 19-11-2015, 16:29
Yossi
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They don't have their way though because of a free market and competition, now not wanting to get into a competition debate, but people should consider the following (I know you get this by the way).

Running the network costs x, and other networks have similar costs to yours.
Sales prices are set at Y, so that you can make a margin of Z, where typically Z is an acceptable margin that means competition is working and they are making a margin that the network is happy with and worth their time effort and investment. They can increase margin by selling more services, gaining more customers or saving money through efficiency.

If you're forced artificially to cut prices in one area through regulation, all you do to maintain your margin (and your competitors do the same) is increase other pricing or find ways of maintaining revenue, just like you would if all suppliers suddenly had to pay 20% more for electricity etc. It comes off the operating cost, not the profit as it is a cost that all suppliers equally have to foot the bill for.

All it means is those that use phones a lot in the EU will become subsided by people that don't as per minute rates rise to compensate for the change. Consumers never actually save money by regulation specifying price caps in a single area of a business. The classic example is Vodafone's 40% average per minute rate increases when previous price caps were enforced by the EU (15p rate etc).
you are talking about Vodafone in your post, which owns a carrier in almost every european market... it could be as easy as limiting their roaming to that one Vodafone network locally. Most carriers have this or similar structures...

it will promote EU-wide carriers in the long run or alliances between smaller carriers, which benefits everyone in the long run. That's what the EU is about anyways...

the same way English customers aren't subsidising mobile users who travel a lot to Scotland,Wales or Northern Ireland... because the same carriers are present in all markets.
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Old 19-11-2015, 17:55
MTUK1
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you are talking about Vodafone in your post, which owns a carrier in almost every european market... it could be as easy as limiting their roaming to that one Vodafone network locally. Most carriers have this or similar structures...

it will promote EU-wide carriers in the long run or alliances between smaller carriers, which benefits everyone in the long run. That's what the EU is about anyways...

the same way English customers aren't subsidising mobile users who travel a lot to Scotland,Wales or Northern Ireland... because the same carriers are present in all markets.
There is no such thing as a Scottish, Northern Irish,Welsh or English market. And keep convincing yourself that this EU ruling is good. It isn't.
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Old 21-11-2015, 19:13
Yossi
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There is no such thing as a Scottish, Northern Irish,Welsh or English market. And keep convincing yourself that this EU ruling is good. It isn't.
that was my point. The EU is a single market which is artificially fragmented now due to national borders. What rulings like this intend to bring about is a true EU-wide telecommunications market where providers will operate all throughout the EU just like EE/O2/Three/Vodafone do within the UK.

We saw similar movements within the UK with cable markets. Telewest and NTL and before that CW and so on. Each operated in their own market and citizens were able to get different broadband and TV offerings depending on where in England they lived in. Then came the mergers ... and a true BT vs Virgin competition space.

I strongly believe it's a good thing.
Naturally, for eurosceptics it will be like hell freezing over, of course.
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Old 21-11-2015, 19:28
Gigabit
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Costs may go up in the UK as a result of this but they're never going to be as much as a £40+ charge for using your data abroad!
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Old 21-11-2015, 21:04
MTUK1
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Costs may go up in the UK as a result of this but they're never going to be as much as a £40+ charge for using your data abroad!
What about people who don't go abroad?
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Old 21-11-2015, 21:23
Thine Wonk
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Costs may go up in the UK as a result of this but they're never going to be as much as a £40+ charge for using your data abroad!
No but exact a £20 a year increase maybe or increased per minute rates etc

Just don't say I didn't warn you when everyone's bills go up a couple of pounds a month during next year. It won't just be absorbed.
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:11
Gigabit
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I'm not denying that prices will go up, I think they will. What I am saying is, I would rather have a slightly higher monthly bill than have a £400 bill for the one time I use my phone whilst abroad.
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:24
plymouthbloke1974
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Thing is - remember that non UK users visit the UK and roam on our networks. If from the EU we would cross charge the same rate that we pay the EU networks for our customers to roam there. So that would balance out a bit of the cost. Also non EU roamers on our UK networks could be very lucrative profit-wise. So remember we make money the other way too and any regulatory change in the EU, the UK networks could increase the wholesale rate for non EU countries to roam on our networks, rather than pass on to consumers...
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:34
MTUK1
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Thing is - remember that non UK users visit the UK and roam on our networks. If from the EU we would cross charge the same rate that we pay the EU networks for our customers to roam there. So that would balance out a bit of the cost. Also non EU roamers on our UK networks could be very lucrative profit-wise. So remember we make money the other way too and any regulatory change in the EU, the UK networks could increase the wholesale rate for non EU countries to roam on our networks, rather than pass on to consumers...
I think you have far too much faith in the EU.
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:34
MTUK1
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I'm not denying that prices will go up, I think they will. What I am saying is, I would rather have a slightly higher monthly bill than have a £400 bill for the one time I use my phone whilst abroad.
What about people that don't go abroad?
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:52
Gigabit
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What about people that don't go abroad?
What about people that don't make phone calls?
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:55
MTUK1
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What about people that don't make phone calls?
Nice deflection.
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Old 21-11-2015, 23:55
plymouthbloke1974
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I think you have far too much faith in the EU.
In the EU there are wholesale caps. That's what I'm alluding to.... The arrangements are reciprocal...
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Old 22-11-2015, 09:51
Gigabit
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Nice deflection.
But the argument is exactly the same. Why should I subsidise the network for those who make phone calls when I don't?
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