DS Forums

 
 

Adele – as big if not bigger than Elvis, The Beatles and MJ?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-12-2015, 02:29
jonner101
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,153
But like I said earlier, who knows? You probably would have said the same about The Beatles after 3 albums. Hindsight is a marvellous thing. The rest is mere conjecture. Having said that, physiology often dictates that it's much harder for a female to become a legend in any field.
Like I said it was way different back then before the album really meant much at all. I think Adele will be end up being like a female equivalent of a really successful but to my mind boring artist with MOR mass market appeal like 'Phil Collins' and perhaps even 'Elton John' in terms of success but I can't see her being considered a ground breaking music genius in the long run.

Personally I consider Kate Bush as the one female musical legend who will stand the test of time. Amy Winehouse's material is also for me a lot more interesting and raw than Adele.
jonner101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 02-12-2015, 02:59
WellHiddenMark
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not-London
Posts: 1,657
I think she needs a few more chips and cakes before she’s bigger than Elvis, but she definitely has the potential.
WellHiddenMark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 03:26
konebyvax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ignoringtrollsville
Posts: 7,875
As posters keep telling you these comparisons are nonsense. The Beatles complete works were produced in the same time as Adele has produced 3 albums. The history of the band is quite different and it was a different time. The Beatles played lots of covers because they were a working band and covers was what you had to play. But they were the mould breakers (along with Dylan etc) that meant bands/artists were valued because they wrote their own stuff.

The Beatles were teeny boppers during their first albums, they were a cultural phenomenon and lead the first British wave of pop domination in the US. The sales were a consequence of that storm. So no it wasn't about pop and chart sales (not very trustworthy) as many have pointed out to you. It was about novelty and originality and the fact they were so distinctly British.

Apart from the fact that Adele has sold a lot of records, what actually are you saying?
My point is (which you conveniently ignore) if you personally were around at the time of their first 3 albums (you obviously weren't so are basing your opinions on what you have read and more importantly mixing in that all important hindsight) would you have forecasted that they were going to turn out as huge/influential/experimental as they did and secondly even if you did would people of the time have questioned your sanity? No idea about the first bit but most definitely a big fat yes to the second one. I'm not attempting to see into the future (I've made that very clear) but you are (in fact you are claiming to know what will happen in the next 20 odd years whereas you don't really what will happen in the next 24 hours.)

Bizarre thread.
konebyvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 07:22
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
My point is (which you conveniently ignore) if you personally were around at the time of their first 3 albums (you obviously weren't so are basing your opinions on what you have read and more importantly mixing in that all important hindsight) would you have forecasted that they were going to turn out as huge/influential/experimental as they did and secondly even if you did would people of the time have questioned your sanity? No idea about the first bit but most definitely a big fat yes to the second one. I'm not attempting to see into the future (I've made that very clear) but you are (in fact you are claiming to know what will happen in the next 20 odd years whereas you don't really what will happen in the next 24 hours.)

Bizarre thread.
I'm not claiming anything you are.

You are making a stupid point about predicting what impact Adele will have in 20 years after having produced 3 albums in 7 years two of which have sold loads. And comparing that to what people said about The Beatles after three albums.

I was around at the time it so happens. I'm a child of the 50s. All sorts of predictions were made. Many that The Beatles were just a flash. Many hated them particularly amongst the establishment. It was a completely different era which has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions. The last time Britain still could claim to be great, James Bond, Carnaby Street, The White Heat of industry, the breaking down of sexual barriers, the World Cup,and huge optimism about the future.

The Beatles had to prove they were the biggest band in Merseyside before they took the prize of biggest band anywhere else. The excitement they generated in the US was completely unexpected and novel at the time. They were compared to Elvis who's career already had a trajectory. I preferred The Stones at the time as I thought they were cooler. I don't recall all of my friends even having record players let alone showing off our albums to each other but I remember the plastic wigs and The Beatles music being everywhere. Different phenomenon as already said. It didn't take long to appreciate The Beatles influence in their own time - the explosion of British pop bands and singers for example.

As for what happened after. No, I didn't see Wings coming or 'Band on the Run' the influence The Beatles would have on recorded music. That stuff happened at the time but took time to recognise. And their whole career lasted the same length of time as Adele has been in the business. I preferred T.Rex, Roxy Music and Yes early 70s anyway.

Now your turn to answer the question. Apart from selling loads of records what are you saying about Adele? She has been in the business over 7 years what impact has she made? Are you suggesting Adele is as big as the Beatles or not? Which seems to be the point if the thread.

I'll answer it for you. Adele is a different story.
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 09:00
Soupietwist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 781

I was around at the time it so happens. I'm a child of the 50s. All sorts of predictions were made. Many that The Beatles were just a flash. Many hated them particularly amongst the establishment. It was a completely different era which has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.
Amusingly as soon as I said in this thread Shania shifted 40 million copies of one of her albums Konebyvax was more than happy to point out that was a different era!
Soupietwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 10:12
my name is joe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In England
Posts: 4,349
I'm not claiming anything you are.

You are making a stupid point about predicting what impact Adele will have in 20 years after having produced 3 albums in 7 years two of which have sold loads. And comparing that to what people said about The Beatles after three albums.

I was around at the time it so happens. I'm a child of the 50s. All sorts of predictions were made. Many that The Beatles were just a flash. Many hated them particularly amongst the establishment. It was a completely different era which has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions. The last time Britain still could claim to be great, James Bond, Carnaby Street, The White Heat of industry, the breaking down of sexual barriers, the World Cup,and huge optimism about the future.

The Beatles had to prove they were the biggest band in Merseyside before they took the prize of biggest band anywhere else. The excitement they generated in the US was completely unexpected and novel at the time. They were compared to Elvis who's career already had a trajectory. I preferred The Stones at the time as I thought they were cooler. I don't recall all of my friends even having record players let alone showing off our albums to each other but I remember the plastic wigs and The Beatles music being everywhere. Different phenomenon as already said. It didn't take long to appreciate The Beatles influence in their own time - the explosion of British pop bands and singers for example.

As for what happened after. No, I didn't see Wings coming or 'Band on the Run' the influence The Beatles would have on recorded music. That stuff happened at the time but took time to recognise. And their whole career lasted the same length of time as Adele has been in the business. I preferred T.Rex, Roxy Music and Yes early 70s anyway.

Now your turn to answer the question. Apart from selling loads of records what are you saying about Adele? She has been in the business over 7 years what impact has she made? Are you suggesting Adele is as big as the Beatles or not? Which seems to be the point if the thread.

I'll answer it for you. Adele is a different story.
my view on that is that her sales are her impact. She's not counter-cultural or revolutionary in the old sense. But in a quiet way she's turned the industry on it's head. It's not long ago it was widely assumed she couldn't make it in the industry which required a certain look and certain marketing approach (there are articles which resurfaced this week in the US which said exactly that). It makes me laugh now to read posts (another thread) arguing Adele is marketed at people who'll buy anything, whilst at the same time other people argue people who buy Adele's music don't buy any other music.
We have no idea of the numerous number of young people out there who now think maybe they could be a successful singing artist, that maybe it doesn't matter how i look...all i need is my voice. If that's not a revolutionary impact on the mainstream of the last 20 yrs i'm not sure what is.
my name is joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 10:20
Anika Hanson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 14,219
my view on that is that her sales are her impact. She's not counter-cultural or revolutionary in the old sense. But in a quiet way she's turned the industry on it's head. It's not long ago it was widely assumed she couldn't make it in the industry which required a certain look and certain marketing approach (there are articles which resurfaced this week in the US which said exactly that). It makes me laugh now to read posts (another thread) arguing Adele is marketed at people who'll buy anything, whilst at the same time other people argue people who buy Adele's music don't buy any other music.
We have no idea of the numerous number of young people out there who now think maybe they could be a successful singing artist, that maybe it doesn't matter how i look...all i need is my voice. If that's not a revolutionary impact on the mainstream of the last 20 yrs i'm not sure what is.
By that argument we can say any artist that has sold a lot of records, is revolutionary, iconic and has made an impact. Let's hold up Norah Jones, Dido, shania Twain, Susan Boyle and co as icons.
Anika Hanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 10:53
Rocketpop
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 815
Regarding the songwriting/hit maker topic.

I remember a while back reading an interesting interview with the Söderberg sisters (AKA First Aid Kit). Having created mild stir with their first two albums they were signed by a big label in Columbia, having created the outline for their 3 release they were asked to go and work with a known hit maker in the studio. The sisters saw their songs, most notably 'A Long Time Ago' completely rewritten - 3 days of basically having their song identitys destroyed they walked out, thankfully they were allowed to work on the album in their own way. The resulting album 'Stay Gold' is really very good.
Rocketpop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 11:36
weirlandia4eva
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,153
my view on that is that her sales are her impact. She's not counter-cultural or revolutionary in the old sense. But in a quiet way she's turned the industry on it's head. It's not long ago it was widely assumed she couldn't make it in the industry which required a certain look and certain marketing approach (there are articles which resurfaced this week in the US which said exactly that). It makes me laugh now to read posts (another thread) arguing Adele is marketed at people who'll buy anything, whilst at the same time other people argue people who buy Adele's music don't buy any other music.
We have no idea of the numerous number of young people out there who now think maybe they could be a successful singing artist, that maybe it doesn't matter how i look...all i need is my voice. If that's not a revolutionary impact on the mainstream of the last 20 yrs i'm not sure what is.
This ^^^
Look at the Grammy and VMA award shows at the beginning of this decade. You had Lady Gaga and then Nikki Minhaj with their theatrical OTT performances and then along comes Adele. I think it was the 2011 VMAs when beforehand everyone was wondering what Gaga would do to top her grammy performance but after the show it was Adele singing with just a piano accompaniment that got all the raves.
weirlandia4eva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 12:01
Smudged
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,282
my view on that is that her sales are her impact. She's not counter-cultural or revolutionary in the old sense. But in a quiet way she's turned the industry on it's head. It's not long ago it was widely assumed she couldn't make it in the industry which required a certain look and certain marketing approach (there are articles which resurfaced this week in the US which said exactly that).
I don't really see that (yet). I can't see how the industry has changed very much since Adele's been around. I don't see many other artists trying to emulate her approach, except in the case of Sam Smith but I'm not sure if inspiring more artists like him is such a good thing for the industry...
Smudged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 13:23
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
my view on that is that her sales are her impact. She's not counter-cultural or revolutionary in the old sense. But in a quiet way she's turned the industry on it's head. It's not long ago it was widely assumed she couldn't make it in the industry which required a certain look and certain marketing approach (there are articles which resurfaced this week in the US which said exactly that). It makes me laugh now to read posts (another thread) arguing Adele is marketed at people who'll buy anything, whilst at the same time other people argue people who buy Adele's music don't buy any other music.
We have no idea of the numerous number of young people out there who now think maybe they could be a successful singing artist, that maybe it doesn't matter how i look...all i need is my voice. If that's not a revolutionary impact on the mainstream of the last 20 yrs i'm not sure what is.
As the poster below suggests that's an argument that applies to any number of artists really. And many of the young female singers who are trying in the industry are probably as inspired by the increasing numbers of successful females rather than one in particular. Madonna has had an influence on that more than Adele.

A number of number of things you mention about image and the media also apply to Susan Boyle who had a major impact but was relatively short-lived. Youth and good looks being on Adele's side in that respect. But I would agree that it would be great to see more mainstream artists who rely on their music more than exhibitionism and Adele may well be a catalyst for that.

You are right that Adele is not counter-cultural but really all artists play the music biz game. If anything she has been a saviour of the industry, showing records can still be sold by the right kind of artist. She might prove to be a hard artist to clone as well.

For me Adele is a confessional singer (like Amy before her) and her success should have the impact of re-establishing authenticity and simplicity in mainstream popular music, indeed, it may have already.

By that argument we can say any artist that has sold a lot of records, is revolutionary, iconic and has made an impact. Let's hold up Norah Jones, Dido, shania Twain, Susan Boyle and co as icons.
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 14:38
my name is joe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In England
Posts: 4,349
the difference with Susan Boyle or any XF alumni, is there was no sense of that being a career beyond the idea of doing covers or songs given to you on the back of a TV show. It's not the same thing as growing from the modest success of an album into a global star 2 albums later. Had the likes of Norah, Dido, Duffy, Lewis etc managed to sustain a career then you might have to make a case for them but they didn't.

And lets not forget we're talking a different level now to those females. And it's not even a case of her competing alongside her peers, Beyonce etc, she's blowing them out of the water whilst making a fraction of the effort. And she's also quite unlike the queens of ambition from Madonna to Gaga that we've got used to who made themselves happen. It all just seems to have happened to Adele, and i bet she's as bemused by it as many on here, well i know she is.
my name is joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 14:40
my name is joe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In England
Posts: 4,349
I don't really see that (yet). I can't see how the industry has changed very much since Adele's been around. I don't see many other artists trying to emulate her approach, except in the case of Sam Smith but I'm not sure if inspiring more artists like him is such a good thing for the industry...
Adele is no more to blame for the awful Sam Smith than the Beatles are for Oasis
my name is joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 18:48
Smudged
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,282
Adele is no more to blame for the awful Sam Smith than the Beatles are for Oasis
Oh I think they were probably influenced by what has worked for Adele. He even used some of the same songwriters as Adele used on "21" on his album. Not that I would blame Adele, it's just the way the music business works.
Smudged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 19:04
shadesofblack
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,936
Norah Jones, Dido, Shania Twain, Susan Boyle did not sell to young kids or hip hop guys. Their main demographic was middle aged and elderly. They are not ever going to be seen as once in a generation.

The latest in the US (from HDD):
Adele may add even more to the record books, as she looks to move more than 1m in second-week sales. No artist has ever sold over 1m in two consecutive weeks. We’ll be keeping an eye on the numbers every morning until the chart closes. Adele now looks like she may move 7m+ by the end of 2015.

7m just here in the states.

Edit: Dido did the hook for Stan so yeah. She's got that. Lol.
shadesofblack is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 01:32
SummerHeart
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Gay Paree
Posts: 57
All expectations were exceeded: Adele's sensational new album '25' breaks all records and starts with unbelievable 5,7 million copies globally. Never before an album sold so much in a single week, enough for an entry in the Guinness Book of Records!

http://www.mediatraffic.de/
SummerHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 07:19
konebyvax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ignoringtrollsville
Posts: 7,875
SummerHeart, now don't you be bringing your facts into this thread . Far too 'simplistic', apparently. No no, it's all about biased opinions and actually being able to see into the future by way of hindsight in here(yes, it's an entirely new concept but we really must get with the programme)....
konebyvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 07:44
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
SummerHeart, now don't you be bringing your facts into this thread . Far too 'simplistic', apparently. No no, it's all about biased opinions and actually being able to see into the future by way of hindsight in here(yes, it's an entirely new concept but we really must get with the programme)....

Seeing into the future by way of hindsight is called learning from history.
Nothing new about it.
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 08:05
my name is joe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In England
Posts: 4,349
Regarding the songwriting/hit maker topic.

I remember a while back reading an interesting interview with the Söderberg sisters (AKA First Aid Kit). Having created mild stir with their first two albums they were signed by a big label in Columbia, having created the outline for their 3 release they were asked to go and work with a known hit maker in the studio. The sisters saw their songs, most notably 'A Long Time Ago' completely rewritten - 3 days of basically having their song identitys destroyed they walked out, thankfully they were allowed to work on the album in their own way. The resulting album 'Stay Gold' is really very good.
just to say, seeing as you mentioned them, FAK's 3 albums are fantastic, and 'A long time Ago' a masterpiece.
my name is joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 08:26
Rocketpop
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 815
just to say, seeing as you mentioned them, FAK's 3 albums are fantastic, and 'A long time Ago' a masterpiece.
Yeah it's a great song. From the interview it seemed like the label wanted it as a first single and therefore it was being rewritten around a bigger/louder vocal chorus, which the girls weren't happy about. Maybe would have ended up a bit like 'Hello'.
Rocketpop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 08:31
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
All expectations were exceeded: Adele's sensational new album '25' breaks all records and starts with unbelievable 5,7 million copies globally. Never before an album sold so much in a single week, enough for an entry in the Guinness Book of Records!

http://www.mediatraffic.de/
And what's your prediction based on this whether '25' will outsell '21'?
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 10:10
Dopple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 168
I think she needs a few more chips and cakes before she’s bigger than Elvis, but she definitely has the potential.
She's getting there. Some more burgers maybe.
Rumours are Elvis died on the loo holding a quarter pounder...
Dopple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 12:58
Smudged
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,282
SummerHeart, now don't you be bringing your facts into this thread . Far too 'simplistic', apparently. No no, it's all about biased opinions and actually being able to see into the future by way of hindsight in here(yes, it's an entirely new concept but we really must get with the programme)....
The sad thing about your posts is that I know you're not stupid enough to not grasp the concepts we're discussing, you're just blatantly ignoring them because it doesn't fit in with your agenda. It's like the blinkers go on and your inner child comes out when you start discussing your favourite artists.
Smudged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 14:11
Anika Hanson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 14,219
SummerHeart, now don't you be bringing your facts into this thread . Far too 'simplistic', apparently. No no, it's all about biased opinions and actually being able to see into the future by way of hindsight in here(yes, it's an entirely new concept but we really must get with the programme)....
Well you are projecting into the future by saying she is as big as Mj, the Beatles and Elvis. Just as people can't see into the future and claim that she won't have the same impact as they have, you can't go into the future and say that she will have the same level of impact as those artists.
Anika Hanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 17:18
shadesofblack
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,936
Well you are projecting into the future by saying she is as big as Mj, the Beatles and Elvis. Just as people can't see into the future and claim that she won't have the same impact as they have, you can't go into the future and say that she will have the same level of impact as those artists.
The question was is she as big as or bigger than. At this moment her collective work is not, obviously. The others have each had 5 decades and more. That's an insane amount of time. What's interesting is that the other three aren't, and never were, universally loved like the world seems to love Adele at the moment. Old white conservatives disliked all of those guys above.
It's interesting to see where this goes, as its unprecedented. If she stays out of the limelight and quietly releases a quality album every 4 or 5 years and tours for 1 year in 5, the sky's the limit. I think it will be a very long, successful career (stating the obvious).
shadesofblack is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:03.