As I said. Ordinarily I'd agree.

But this is one continuous situation. Not the doctor flitting about through time in his tardis. He was in London. Then not seen anywhere for 50 million years. He was placed in a trap and didn't exit said trap for 50 million years. His Tardis remained in London. So Unit will have made note and know he wasn't off somewhere. Because he can't without the tardis.

The people who placed him in the trap would be long dead. Anyone and everyone he knew would be dead and he can't go back or forward because he doesn't have the tardis.

If it's not that virtual reality and no more then a few hours/days have passed in the real world I'll be extremely surprised.

Given that this was all clearly the creation of a Timelord (I assume the castle was in a pocket universe inside the Timelord device, perhaps with its own internal passage of time), was this the Doctor's punishment for his actions in and around the Timewar?

Unless the trap was sprung by someone from the future that the Doctor eventually finds himself in? Not saying I think this is the case, but could this also not be a possibility?

The Time Lords planted the seeds of the Master's insanity in his childhood retrospectively. Could it not be possible that the trap instigated in Face the Raven was devised by someone who indeed wasn't even born at that specific point?

Exactly this. It really is the only explanation that makes sense. That time within the virtual reality of the dial was massively accelerated, only giving the illusion of normal time to the person trapped within.

I mean, purely logically speaking, no matter what the point of it might be, who would create a trap that potentially takes up to 2 billion years of real time to escape? If you wanted someone locked away for that long, why give them a way out at all?

no , i think the billions of years really did pass , even if he was in a virtual world the sky was real .

my question is - where was he ? he was less than a light year from earth , so then how did he end up on Gallifrey ?

Not saying that you're wrong, but how do you know the sky was real? The Doctor clearly thought it was, but given that at the time he himself was possibly only part of the virtual simulation, he would have done. To him the sky was as real as everything else going on.

Again, you might be right, but the sky could just as easily have been a built in 'clue' within the simulation to help the Doctor understand his predicament and find his way out.

Could be. But the master is only the same age as the doctor. A few thousand years old. Which by time lord standards isn't that long at all. 50 million years however. Is a vast stretch of time even by time lord standards.

All this discussion and speculation etc. And I bet it's not even given a second thought come Saturday.

I bet Moff hasn't addressed it in any way and we're just left to decide for ourselves.

I also don't know why the doctor repeatedly let himself be killed?

He said earlier on that if he ran from one end of the castle to the other he got 82 minutes. So once he knew where room 12 was why did he not just confess something. Stop the creature. Run away then run back. Surely that would have been simpler than repeatedly getting yourself killed and starting all over again.

And why did he not make some for of implement to hit the rock with other than his fist? The shovel at least.

If that is the case it would explain why he just didn't regenerate

Why would the sky be the only real thing in a virtual world?

That makes even less sense.

It was either virtual or it wasn't. I don't think it was a virtual pocket under a real sky.

If I remember correctly he did say he was too injured to regenerate.

Probably that last option. Which, to be fair, is usually what fans will do anyway, even when given supposed definite facts!

For me though, assuming that the dial reality was in fact virtual, and given that from the Doctor's point of view he would have only experienced the few hours of his final run through of events, then in all the ways that matter, the Doctor is both physically and mentally only maybe a day or so older than when he left Earth in Face the Raven.

but the 'clue' wouldn't have helped the first however many times .

I think its real because once he realises what he has to do he also has to know that this is gonna take billions of years , I know he doesn't remember each time , but once he gets to the wall he does realise it .

Missed that bit.

Well at least it was explained.

I could be wrong , but when he picks up the compact case at the end don't we see the castle within it ? the top is open .

the moment he gets the tardis back, he can go back and forward cant he?

I took that as the top was open so as it release him. It closed again as soon as he picked it up.

I could of course be wrong.

But if that's the case and the sky and time passed outside as it did inside the dial. Then Asikdr must have immediately jumped from London to Gallifrey and placed the confession dial in the spot it was in then it remained in the exact same place for millions of years.

So I'll stick with thinking it was all virtual, including the sky.

well there has to be some reality , or there's no stakes , we know the wall was harder than diamond and would have taken billions of years to smash . Or - do you not think that ?

I think the best clue that it was virtual reality - something that I don't think I've seen anyone yet mention - is that whenever the monster 'kills' the doctor, it disappears in a manner not dissimilar to a hologram. It was very clearly computer generated.

Also the fact that the Doctor says, "Tell them I came the long way around", would seem to suggest that the Time Lords planted the Doctor inside hoping that he would make all of his confessions, and then release him, presumably for whatever official punishment is awaiting him on Gallifrey. They would not have expected him to break out of the confession dial by using its fail-safe system.

Well, not the first few times, no, but then I'd have to assume that the clue (if that's what it was) was intended as a relatively long term thing anyway, given the nature of the dial's repetitive reality.

I just don't think anyone, not even a Timelord, could cope with knowing that a task was going to take living the exact same day over and over for 2 billion years, even with the benefit of being replaced each time with a refreshed version of himself, and not just go insane. I mean... 2 billion years? No one could cope with that realization and accept it. Not even the Doctor. Not without some form of subconscious understanding that none of it was real.

Yeah, I didn't think to mention it but that was something else that made me feel like the Doctor was existing inside a simulation too. Not just the way it disappeared but also in how it froze, as if the pause button on a remote control had been pressed. That and the nature of the castle itself just left me feeling that it was all just an artificial construction.

but fake or real this is exactly what the sky confirmed for him .

.

wasn't it full of metal cogs and wheels tho ?

No one could cope with the knowledge, but the doctor only realises what is happening in those final few moments as he is hitting the wall. When he is ' refreshed ' each time he goes back to the point he first came into the castle so each time he lives that day is like the first time he went through it.

Yes but he doesn't have it and if time actually passed. He hasn't had it for 50 million years.

The Doctor didn't have any recollection of living the same day over and over. as I said in my post above, he only works out what's going on in his final few moments as he smashes the wall. He then refreshes each time and goes through the same day, the same processes to get to room 12. the room sequences weren't in order so he couldn't simply just go to it after finding the message on the grave. And s he had no recollections of doing this over and over he wouldn't know that he would need a more substantial tool to break down the diamond wall!