Originally Posted by Brandon_Smith:
“I want Timothy Dalton as Rassilon sighh”
“I want Timothy Dalton as Rassilon sighh”
Me too.
Hybrid Speculation
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Originally Posted by Piipp:
“I was running with the idea that perhaps the Doctor isn't yet the hybrid but will become so, as we have seen happen with others throughout this series. However if he already knows himself to be the hybrid then he must at this point in time already be the hybrid unless he has something planned.
I'm with others on this though; why the sudden conflict with the Time Lords? Okay, they never had the best of relationships prior to the Time War. However, during the 50th special it seemed to me (and probably almost every other viewer) that the Doctor actually loves both his home and his people; he spent the entire episode saving them from the Time War. At the end of the special it was clear that he was searching for his home and it seemed likely that he would spend a long time doing so. Yet now, just two years later, not only has he stumbled upon Gallifrey; the Time Lords have seemingly found the Doctor, caused the death of Clara, and are about to wage war against the man whom saved them; all of this despite the fact that they're supposed to be trapped in a pocket universe. What the Hell Moffat? He literally just pulled his trousers down and took a big dump; not just on his own work in the 50th but on the entire history of the show. It's going to take some good explanations for him to write his way out of this whilst seemingly undoing everything that we learned in this episode, I don't think anything else would suffice (for me at least).”
“I was running with the idea that perhaps the Doctor isn't yet the hybrid but will become so, as we have seen happen with others throughout this series. However if he already knows himself to be the hybrid then he must at this point in time already be the hybrid unless he has something planned.
I'm with others on this though; why the sudden conflict with the Time Lords? Okay, they never had the best of relationships prior to the Time War. However, during the 50th special it seemed to me (and probably almost every other viewer) that the Doctor actually loves both his home and his people; he spent the entire episode saving them from the Time War. At the end of the special it was clear that he was searching for his home and it seemed likely that he would spend a long time doing so. Yet now, just two years later, not only has he stumbled upon Gallifrey; the Time Lords have seemingly found the Doctor, caused the death of Clara, and are about to wage war against the man whom saved them; all of this despite the fact that they're supposed to be trapped in a pocket universe. What the Hell Moffat? He literally just pulled his trousers down and took a big dump; not just on his own work in the 50th but on the entire history of the show. It's going to take some good explanations for him to write his way out of this whilst seemingly undoing everything that we learned in this episode, I don't think anything else would suffice (for me at least).”
Well, the 50th anniversary was careful to show that the Doctor was communicating with the General and the War Council, not Rassilon and the High Council. You only need to go back as far as January 2010 and The End of Time part 2 to see that the Doctor has a real grievance with the President and his original plan for the Time War.
It's hardly taking a dump on history to acknowledge a huge story from 6 years ago.
I would add to that; I believe the majority of Gallifreyans aren't Timelords. They're just the elite in charge. Who appear to spend a lot of time playing politics and power games. Sounds familiar...that was always my take on it.
Originally Posted by MissMonkeyMoo:
“You've taken my quote out of context. What would be the point of the Doctor saving gallifray in the time war as per the 50th anniversary for him to go and then destroy it?”
“You've taken my quote out of context. What would be the point of the Doctor saving gallifray in the time war as per the 50th anniversary for him to go and then destroy it?”
If Gallifrey is really in the far future than for most of history anything the Doctor does there is yet to happen. So as far as the universe is concerned he will become High President and he will stand in it's ruins during the Time War. The trouble with time travel is that sometimes you get prophecies about events you've already experienced.
The major mistake the Daleks made was assuming that they were one of the warrior races rather than humans.
Originally Posted by The_Judge_:
“Susan's child is the hybrid.”
“Susan's child is the hybrid.”
Given that Moffat has supposedly messed about with Who Lore in some way I can't help but think that Susan is involved in some way.
Does Ashidir regenerate, have her mind wiped and start going by the name Susan?
Does she then get sent back in time to go on the run with the first Incarnation of the Doctor?
Where does the Master's Daughter come in to the plot? A throwaway line or something more? Is Ashildr the Master's Daughter?
Even back in the 1600's Ashildr seemed to know more about the Doctor than she should have. Who was feeding her this info? Her Father?
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“Given that Moffat has supposedly messed about with Who Lore in some way I can't help but think that Susan is involved in some way.
Does Ashidir regenerate, have her mind wiped and start going by the name Susan?
Does she then get sent back in time to go on the run with the first Incarnation of the Doctor?
Where does the Master's Daughter come in to the plot? A throwaway line or something more? Is Ashildr the Master's Daughter?
Even back in the 1600's Ashildr seemed to know more about the Doctor than she should have. Who was feeding her this info? Her Father?”
“Given that Moffat has supposedly messed about with Who Lore in some way I can't help but think that Susan is involved in some way.
Does Ashidir regenerate, have her mind wiped and start going by the name Susan?
Does she then get sent back in time to go on the run with the first Incarnation of the Doctor?
Where does the Master's Daughter come in to the plot? A throwaway line or something more? Is Ashildr the Master's Daughter?
Even back in the 1600's Ashildr seemed to know more about the Doctor than she should have. Who was feeding her this info? Her Father?”
Oh wow, which story would I tolerate - the Doctor confirming he is half-human or that Susan could be the Masters Daughter - lol I think theres so much misdirection here from the BBC Doctor Who team and they love it!
Here's a few other observations:
Evil Veil dead lady from the Doctors nightmare past was actually a robot made of cog wheels - so obviously it's one of the clockwork droids (!)
The music which played (superb music by the way) when the Doctor dived into the lake around the castle was the same music playing in the Mummy on the Orient express, when Clara wakes up to find herself rescued on a mysterious planet, after the Doctor rescued her from Gus.
The Doctor retreats to his mind palace but clearly can only survive if he is thinking about the Clara, he misses her a lot.
Veil - this sounds like Vale - clearly the Valeyard somehow got split off from the Doctor and is left on Gallifrey and built this elaborate ploy to make him lost it (either that - or I'm sure it's the Rani (are we allowed to mention her name on the forum again?))
12's answer, well it was in room ... 12
The Doctor looks great in his purple velvet jacket, clearly he is regressing back into Pertwee, this entire series goes back to the Timelords forcing him to regenerate and choose that face as punishment, he's on a revenge mission
The sisters of Karn when they created the War Doctor clearly constructed the Hybrid Doctor, they've been waiting for him .....
In Deep Breath, when 12 rises to the floor level to confront the lead robot, he picks some flowers out of a vase and sniffs them deeply, just like he did in that room last night, clearly there is a link.
The Docotr has been asleep since episode 1 and this entire series has been a sleep induced nightmare since Davros captured him
Oh wait, this is the wrong thread, I should be posting in that one about important opinions ....
Seriously though, your guess is as good as mine Corwin, bring it on ......
Check out this
Doctor Who: The Hybrid - Series 9 Finale BBC TV Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NJN5Ru4RA
Proves that the Doctor is part Dalek
and
Doctor Who: The Hybrid - Series 9 Finale BBC TV Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NJN5Ru4RA
Proves that the Doctor is part Dalek
and
Spoiler
Originally Posted by Piipp:
“I was running with the idea that perhaps the Doctor isn't yet the hybrid but will become so, as we have seen happen with others throughout this series. However if he already knows himself to be the hybrid then he must at this point in time already be the hybrid unless he has something planned.
I'm with others on this though; why the sudden conflict with the Time Lords? Okay, they never had the best of relationships prior to the Time War. However, during the 50th special it seemed to me (and probably almost every other viewer) that the Doctor actually loves both his home and his people; he spent the entire episode saving them from the Time War. At the end of the special it was clear that he was searching for his home and it seemed likely that he would spend a long time doing so. Yet now, just two years later, not only has he stumbled upon Gallifrey; the Time Lords have seemingly found the Doctor, caused the death of Clara, and are about to wage war against the man whom saved them; all of this despite the fact that they're supposed to be trapped in a pocket universe. What the Hell Moffat? He literally just pulled his trousers down and took a big dump; not just on his own work in the 50th but on the entire history of the show. It's going to take some good explanations for him to write his way out of this whilst seemingly undoing everything that we learned in this episode, I don't think anything else would suffice (for me at least).”
“I was running with the idea that perhaps the Doctor isn't yet the hybrid but will become so, as we have seen happen with others throughout this series. However if he already knows himself to be the hybrid then he must at this point in time already be the hybrid unless he has something planned.
I'm with others on this though; why the sudden conflict with the Time Lords? Okay, they never had the best of relationships prior to the Time War. However, during the 50th special it seemed to me (and probably almost every other viewer) that the Doctor actually loves both his home and his people; he spent the entire episode saving them from the Time War. At the end of the special it was clear that he was searching for his home and it seemed likely that he would spend a long time doing so. Yet now, just two years later, not only has he stumbled upon Gallifrey; the Time Lords have seemingly found the Doctor, caused the death of Clara, and are about to wage war against the man whom saved them; all of this despite the fact that they're supposed to be trapped in a pocket universe. What the Hell Moffat? He literally just pulled his trousers down and took a big dump; not just on his own work in the 50th but on the entire history of the show. It's going to take some good explanations for him to write his way out of this whilst seemingly undoing everything that we learned in this episode, I don't think anything else would suffice (for me at least).”
There have always been good and bad Time Lords. For all we know an ally of Rassilon trapped the Doctor, while other factions are friendly to the Doctor. I mean, someone who likes the Doctor must've been responsible for his new regenerations, right?
Originally Posted by WonderWorld:
“Check out this
Doctor Who: The Hybrid - Series 9 Finale BBC TV Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NJN5Ru4RA
Proves that the Doctor is part Dalek
and
”
“Check out this
Doctor Who: The Hybrid - Series 9 Finale BBC TV Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NJN5Ru4RA
Proves that the Doctor is part Dalek
and
Spoiler
That trailer is fan made. Not official at all.
Originally Posted by DS9:
“That trailer is fan made. Not official at all.”
“That trailer is fan made. Not official at all.
”
It looked official to me.
Shame its not. But it bring up good points.
That the Doctor has tampered with the Dalek DNA. The lightning bolt and The Witch's Familiar plus in the episode Into the Dalek he linked himself with Rusty.
I'll buy a hat and eat it if Ashildr isn't the hybrid. The 'Me' pun is exactly the sort of misdirection Moffat would pull, and remember the Janus in Face the Raven could see that Mayor Me had some nefarious plan in her future but couldn't see what it was.
Between the two main theories (Ashildr or The Doctor being the hybrid) I favour The Doctor. At least then it's taking some established in Doctor Who lore and resolving it.
Ashildr would just be another one and done season arc. Plus Rufus Hound is running around being all immortal so it's not like Ashidlr is even unique.
Ashildr would just be another one and done season arc. Plus Rufus Hound is running around being all immortal so it's not like Ashidlr is even unique.
I guess the key is whether the Hybrid is Half Dalek/Half Time Lord or something else.
As has been pointed out, we've already had a Dalek/Human hybrid (Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks). And we've had humans being turned into Daleks a number of times - firstly in Revelation of the Daleks (way back in 1985). And then again in Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways (2005) and Asylum of the Daleks (poor Clara back in 2012).
We've also already had a Time Lord/Human hybrid (the Doctor/Donna in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End).
In Big Finish, Susan has a son (played by Paul McGann's son) so he would be (at the very least) a Gallifreyan/human hybrid.
Then there is River, who is human but with Time Lord DNA.
So the only thing that would be new would be a Dalek/Time Lord hybrid.
If it is Me/Ashildr then does that mean she became the hybrid by whatever the Doctor did to give her immortality?
Then again I guess it could be the Doctor or Missy. But Clara's bound to be involved somehow.
As has been pointed out, we've already had a Dalek/Human hybrid (Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks). And we've had humans being turned into Daleks a number of times - firstly in Revelation of the Daleks (way back in 1985). And then again in Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways (2005) and Asylum of the Daleks (poor Clara back in 2012).
We've also already had a Time Lord/Human hybrid (the Doctor/Donna in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End).
In Big Finish, Susan has a son (played by Paul McGann's son) so he would be (at the very least) a Gallifreyan/human hybrid.
Then there is River, who is human but with Time Lord DNA.
So the only thing that would be new would be a Dalek/Time Lord hybrid.
If it is Me/Ashildr then does that mean she became the hybrid by whatever the Doctor did to give her immortality?
Then again I guess it could be the Doctor or Missy. But Clara's bound to be involved somehow.
I don't get why people are assuming the Timelords are behind all the Doctor's troubles lately. I don't see any motive for them for that. He saved Gallifrey and the War Council, at least, knew that (but not the High Council, as the 50th made clear).
I think the person behind it is Missy.
A long time ago (series 8) she seemed to think Clara was her's ("My Clara"). Maybe her plan was to get the Doctor to become emotionally dependent on Clara, only for Clara to die. This would exact revenge on the Doctor, but It wouldn't be enough, she'd have to let the Doctor know she was responsible for Clara's death (and was responsible for keeping them together in series 8 (the Doctor suspected "someone" was behind keeping him together with Clara back then)). Build Clara up for her death to weaken the Doctor's resolve.
But revenge alone wouldn't be enough for Missy.
IIRC, the Master always wanted to rule Gallifrey. So I think all this is also part of a larger plot for Missy to become president by tricking the Timelords into blaming the Doctor for all Gallifrey's woes.
Maybe the shock will be that Missy succeeds. And/or that they were involved together in some way in creating the hybrid. And we find out why the Doctor left Gallifrey.
I think the person behind it is Missy.
A long time ago (series 8) she seemed to think Clara was her's ("My Clara"). Maybe her plan was to get the Doctor to become emotionally dependent on Clara, only for Clara to die. This would exact revenge on the Doctor, but It wouldn't be enough, she'd have to let the Doctor know she was responsible for Clara's death (and was responsible for keeping them together in series 8 (the Doctor suspected "someone" was behind keeping him together with Clara back then)). Build Clara up for her death to weaken the Doctor's resolve.
But revenge alone wouldn't be enough for Missy.
IIRC, the Master always wanted to rule Gallifrey. So I think all this is also part of a larger plot for Missy to become president by tricking the Timelords into blaming the Doctor for all Gallifrey's woes.
Maybe the shock will be that Missy succeeds. And/or that they were involved together in some way in creating the hybrid. And we find out why the Doctor left Gallifrey.
Very interesting theory, GDK. Yeah, considering Missy's connection with Clara, the fact that she had access to the Confession Dial *and* the fact that we're back on Gallifrey, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see La Gomez in this episode. And I'm wondering who's ships we see in the trailer; maybe Missy has drummed up some alien support with promises of power, conquest and all that megalomania jazz....
Originally Posted by GDK:
“A long time ago (series 8) she seemed to think Clara was her's ("My Clara"). Maybe her plan was to get the Doctor to become emotionally dependent on Clara, only for Clara to die. This would exact revenge on the Doctor, but It wouldn't be enough, she'd have to let the Doctor know she was responsible for Clara's death (and was responsible for keeping them together in series 8 (the Doctor suspected "someone" was behind keeping him together with Clara back then)). Build Clara up for her death to weaken the Doctor's resolve.”
“A long time ago (series 8) she seemed to think Clara was her's ("My Clara"). Maybe her plan was to get the Doctor to become emotionally dependent on Clara, only for Clara to die. This would exact revenge on the Doctor, but It wouldn't be enough, she'd have to let the Doctor know she was responsible for Clara's death (and was responsible for keeping them together in series 8 (the Doctor suspected "someone" was behind keeping him together with Clara back then)). Build Clara up for her death to weaken the Doctor's resolve.”
Interesting GDK. That would explain the painting of Clara in the puzzle. Why would the puzzle makers go to the trouble of creating an Oil Painiting if it wasnt to hurt him by reminding him of her? It also confirms that Clara is part this plot. Interesting.
Missy was "left" with the Daleks on Skaro in Ep2 right? I guess the one and only way she could get out of it alive was to tell them that she could trap the Doctor, yada yada, and hand the Daleks the Timleords along with Capaldis'/Claras' death.
So, Missy concocts a plan, she goes back to Gallifrey using her secret shortcut she used to escape in the first place. She convinces the timelords that the prophecy is true, there is a Hybrid and that the Doctor knows where it is and is guarding it, the timelords construct the complex mental prison to lure him and unwittingly Capaldi confirms what Missy told them by unwittingly revealing his confessions that seem to support Missys' claims.
Before falling into the prison, Clara inadvertently dies, which paradoxically drives Capaldi to force himself all the way out of the "prison" onto Galifrey, and he arrives thinking the Timelords are to blame (not knowing of Missys' involvement). He is bitter, angry and determined to prove a point to those whom he believes to have put him through the frustrations and caused Claras' death. The Timelords try to wipe out Doctor now believing the prophecy and execute him as he reveals himself to be the Hybrid i.e. potential source of their downfall.
Meanwhile Missy takes over Gallifrey and hands it to the Daleks in exchange for her life (so she believes). The Daleks run amok, don't believe in sharing power, Missy has a last minute change of heart and tries to save the Doctor at the last minute thus ending up in the firing line herself.
Oh and somehow Ashildr is wrapped up in this, feeling guilty for what she done, surrounded by loads of alieans and alien tech, she finds a way to help the Doctor out and she somehow fixes it all and becomes the Doctors new best friend and make amends for her role in Claras death (oh and somehow loses her immortality at the cost of donating her life forces to "save" all the galifreyans from the Daleks).
Or maybe they all just have a cup of tea in the park and wake up and everything was a dream.
So, Missy concocts a plan, she goes back to Gallifrey using her secret shortcut she used to escape in the first place. She convinces the timelords that the prophecy is true, there is a Hybrid and that the Doctor knows where it is and is guarding it, the timelords construct the complex mental prison to lure him and unwittingly Capaldi confirms what Missy told them by unwittingly revealing his confessions that seem to support Missys' claims.
Before falling into the prison, Clara inadvertently dies, which paradoxically drives Capaldi to force himself all the way out of the "prison" onto Galifrey, and he arrives thinking the Timelords are to blame (not knowing of Missys' involvement). He is bitter, angry and determined to prove a point to those whom he believes to have put him through the frustrations and caused Claras' death. The Timelords try to wipe out Doctor now believing the prophecy and execute him as he reveals himself to be the Hybrid i.e. potential source of their downfall.
Meanwhile Missy takes over Gallifrey and hands it to the Daleks in exchange for her life (so she believes). The Daleks run amok, don't believe in sharing power, Missy has a last minute change of heart and tries to save the Doctor at the last minute thus ending up in the firing line herself.
Oh and somehow Ashildr is wrapped up in this, feeling guilty for what she done, surrounded by loads of alieans and alien tech, she finds a way to help the Doctor out and she somehow fixes it all and becomes the Doctors new best friend and make amends for her role in Claras death (oh and somehow loses her immortality at the cost of donating her life forces to "save" all the galifreyans from the Daleks).
Or maybe they all just have a cup of tea in the park and wake up and everything was a dream.
Originally Posted by PeronessDS:
“Interesting GDK. That would explain the painting of Clara in the puzzle. Why would the puzzle makers go to the trouble of creating an Oil Painiting if it wasnt to hurt him by reminding him of her? It also confirms that Clara is part this plot. Interesting.”
“Interesting GDK. That would explain the painting of Clara in the puzzle. Why would the puzzle makers go to the trouble of creating an Oil Painiting if it wasnt to hurt him by reminding him of her? It also confirms that Clara is part this plot. Interesting.”
The painting was created by the doctor. He was sent into his own confession dial and if he confessed as to what was on the dual he would be set free. The prison was of his own making, hence the painting of clara and the old woman who died covered in a veil. Who sent him into the dial is another matter.
Matt Smith threatened the Cybermen with regeneration, saying that if they tried to convert him, he would regenerate and burn out all the implants.
Could the Timelord's solution to Ashildr being immortal be to lock her in some kind of chamber that can forcibly regenerate people, perhaps something intended for sick Timelords who can't do it on their own. The plan is to 'burn' the immortality technology out of her by regenerating her. This leaves her a normal human again who can age and die. Or be killed.
Could the Timelord's solution to Ashildr being immortal be to lock her in some kind of chamber that can forcibly regenerate people, perhaps something intended for sick Timelords who can't do it on their own. The plan is to 'burn' the immortality technology out of her by regenerating her. This leaves her a normal human again who can age and die. Or be killed.
Originally Posted by Isambard Brunel:
“Matt Smith threatened the Cybermen with regeneration, saying that if they tried to convert him, he would regenerate and burn out all the implants.
Could the Timelord's solution to Ashildr being immortal be to lock her in some kind of chamber that can forcibly regenerate people, perhaps something intended for sick Timelords who can't do it on their own. The plan is to 'burn' the immortality technology out of her by regenerating her. This leaves her a normal human again who can age and die. Or be killed.”
“Matt Smith threatened the Cybermen with regeneration, saying that if they tried to convert him, he would regenerate and burn out all the implants.
Could the Timelord's solution to Ashildr being immortal be to lock her in some kind of chamber that can forcibly regenerate people, perhaps something intended for sick Timelords who can't do it on their own. The plan is to 'burn' the immortality technology out of her by regenerating her. This leaves her a normal human again who can age and die. Or be killed.”
If they wanted her dead the could just lop her head off or obliterate every atom, no need to faff with regeneration tech. They may want to make her human again, undoing The Doctors mistake in creating her in the first place.
Maybe...they give her regeneration energy so that a pre-Missy Master can eat her and get a new set of regenerations from her unique human/mire/timelord physiology. Me's female persuasion could influence his regeneration and make the Master, Missy. Then her gnawed bones are ground into a paste that they sell as anti-wrinkle cream to the old crones on Karn.
Is Missy a Me/Timelord Hybrid?
One key point in this is the Dr's confession dial. IF the episodes are in sequential order, Me/ashildr is not the hybrid. The first two episodes of the series showed that the doctor had sent his confession dial to missy and this was before he had met Ashildr and made her immortal. However, what if the first two episodes should really go at the end of the series? What if we really start at episode three? Then we'd have the correct sequence of events for ashildr to be the hybrid, clara dies and the Dr goes to gallifray. After whatever happens in the final episode he then goes off for three weeks in mourning - not for himself as was implied in the opening episode - but for Clara. Could that be why he also sent the confession dial to missy rather than clara? I know it would mess with our heads a bit, but it would be quite refreshing if we haven't seen everything in order - after all, that's how the Dr's life actually is!
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