Yep.

Because none of the show dances were the usual liftathons, (I personally preferred proper dances but there was no wow moments in the first half) it made the first half so flat and the judge's comments dragged it down further. none of the repeated dances were fantastic and none deserved 10s.

I actually agree with public's choice, as we are likely to pick their most popular dance then they can pick a dance that they believe they can improve on themselves.

It used to be highest ballroom and highest Latin, I'm not sure when they started fiddling with it. It felt fairer that way, well less open to manipulation. Even if they picked their two favourites, not necessarily their two best, they'd likely pick dances that were good, or at worst were good but had an unfortunate mistake. At any rate, it would feel more positive than Saturday did.

And Kellie had one that was danced competently first time round with no obvious mistakes etc (we'll ignore it wasn't in proper Tango hold and completely wrong atmosphere as that was down to TTF, not Kellie) Give them a level the bleeding playing field. Either give them all dances where there were mistakes, or early dances al la Kellie's choice, that could be improved on, not one rule for some and another for the others.

I actually quite liked the showdances this year . Like you, I don't go for liftathons. As I said yesterday, I find Jay's is a grower, Kellie's was fun (what I saw of it, our TV had a breakdown half way through), Katie's was very dramatic. I didn't like Georgia's as much - didn't like the blindfold, and found it was too... normal? Long sections in normal hold etc. But I appreciated the dancing that was going on this year, as opposed to tedious lift, lift, lift. But combining these very dancey showdances with judges choice did feel flat, very true.

Public's choice - that's a good idea! It's likely to be their most popular or best dance - it would have been Jay's jive, Georgia's Charleston for starters, and probably Katie's VW (Kellie's dances have been much on a level for me, I find it hard to pick out one as much better than the others). It's all about the public vote in the final anyway, why not get them involved beforehand and let them pick one of the dances? We couldn't do worse than the judges!

Kellie's would probably be her American Smooth

But say we picked those 4 I can imagine the dances the celebs would choose to improve would be:
Jay- Paso
GG- Samba
Katie- AS or FT
Kellie- maybe Rumba or VW

That would have given a much better final imo

I've never forgotten them picking the dance that put Kimberley in the dance off. Now that was deeply unfair.

But they never level the playing field. There were two week one cha chas (Caroline and Mark) and then two fairly decent dances (Simon's Charleston and Frankie's samba) last year. 2013, two more week one dances and two that were decent - Sophie's VW had been done only a couple of weeks before and had scored 36! It's just silly.

Where is this "not in proper tango hold" thing coming from? It's already been refuted by people over in latin and ballroom questions...

I know it's an obvious point, but with things like Anita's Cheerleader Glebathon, Helen's full West End Production Number Paso Doble, and more or less any of the Blackpool routines going on in the weeks leading up to the final, the showdances don't feel like any sort of spectacle any more. They can gob on all "NOW THAT'S A SHOWDANCE" about Kevin & Kellie doing an average Week 6 Charleston with a glittery train prop behind them, but it's still small beer compared to the big showstopper numbers that happen even in regular weeks now. Especially as the Beeb won't spring for backing dancers for the final because they're too cheap.

It's a shame that the ramping up off the spectacle has left things like this - back in the day one of my favourite showdances was basically just Julian doing the rumba in a silly hat. But they're clearly pushing the pros to try to match the nonsense the show itself is pushing on the pros earlier in the series, and with the lower budgets they're getting, they can't do it.

Put it this way - I think Jay's salsa, Katie's American Smooth and even Georgia's American Smooth from Blackpool all would have made better showdances than what we got.

True, if the judges are selecting them, then they should be selecting to the same criteria - if not that then go lowest/highest scoring dances, just make sure everyone gets the same treatment. It's stuff like this that puts the viewers' backs up, so easy to stop.

Rebuked? How the hell does someone rebuke an opinion? Was refuted the word you were after?

I loved Julian's Showdance and I thought Jill's was something a bit similar to Jay in that it was a medley?

Just a personal thing, but I preferred the Showdance to be the last dance of the competition (and not marked). It seemed to be more of a fitting end somehow rather than okay - now off you go again.

Do like the idea of a public choice - and would be eminently do-able though the Strict,y site and ITT..

Surely the judges just need to cast their minds back to series 6 to remember what happens when they get a cob on - and how it carries over into the next one.

Yes, thank you it was refuted. And whether the hold is correct or not isn't an opinion. I guess you could say the correct hold was executed badly and that would be more of an opinion (and imo would be pretty unfair) but they were indeed at least attempting the correct hold.

'Attempting' sounds like they were at best only partially successful, though - which still means that a perfect score was over-generous?

I didn't mean that was my opinion - just that if you wanted to criticise the hold that's the track you'd need to go down rather than "it was the wrong hold" which is just untrue. To do so, in my opinion, would be really nitpicky and unfair and holding kellie to the standard of a ballroom dance professional.

I do think a perfect score was over-generous btw.

To further clarify my point: my ballroom hold is pretty strong. Katusha demidovas is a trillion times better than mine. We are both attempting the same thing, but one is obviously better than the other. It doesn't mean I'm unsuccessful - just that i can and will improve the longer i dance. A judge at the world championships would say I'd executed it badly but it's unfair to hold me to such a high standard.

Regarding the public choice dance, it's a good idea but wouldn't work unless managed some way or another. What I mean it's that it could be done in a way that anti fans would vote so that their villain got a duff choice. (Like this years judges choices.)
It would have to be some sort of pre selection of suitable dances or that the public chooses and then the couple chooses one out of the op two/three.

The problem with doing it last (which I agree makes more dramatic sense) is that they can't so effectively push the "THE SHOWDANCE REALLY MATTERS!" narrative if there's only 10 minutes of voting after it (although plenty of people seem to have bought it even then so *shrug*).

The scoring I think was brought in in Series 7 for two reasons :

a) Tom fans whining he never got a perfect score, which he would have got if they'd scored his the series before
b) Them wanting to make the Chris vs Ricky final look less like a walkover. Ricky's still scored higher, but it gave them an excuse to throw 10s at a guy who didn't really "deserve" them because there's no rules for showdances

I wonder if some dances they would have chosen were not allowed because of backing dancers? Most of them would have been improved without the backing dancers.
Anything would be better than judges choice to improve. Judges fave, public fave, top ballroom and latin? As others have said it should be a celebration not an opportunityto show the poorest dances or two piss poor judges to push their agenda. I would love to hear Craigs half arsed explanation for his 9 for Jay's paso as compared to an average tango from KK.

Hi thanks for the reply,

I really didn't like it I don't like watching Kellie dance anything, I can appreciate she can do some things technically very well,

However she always seems ungainly for me, that tango had technically some very good points, that slow section was really lovely but at other points her legs were about 2 feet apart, it was spoiled for me by the short dress that accentuated her very odd, even for the tango legs.

Also Kevin buts that's a different story.

I was really wondering if the lindyhop was danced well even though I didn't appreciate it at all?

Ah no we do, do appreciation in here, apparently I am now thread monitor making sure it doesnt turn into an annexe of an appreciation thread, which I must say at times this year it has

I never really dislike anyone, with a few notable exceptions, that Widdecome woman for her sheer inhumanity, and Peter Andre for his sleaze that infects everything around him, once the show is over.

I could support any of the final 4 winning they all had a story, but quite honestly I have no wish to see Kellie dance ever again in my life and I was wondering if I was being unfair about the lindyhop?

I was visiting family over the weekend so it's been difficult to post. We did watch the final, well I say 'watch', the telly was on. But it's difficult to get the full experience with a two-yer-old singing 'The Wheels On The Bus' over and over again and the debacle over the missing fries from the Gourmet Burger Kitchen, Waterloo (yes, you were told we'd put your unhelpfulness and lack of service all over social media!) and the general hub-bub of a family gathering. Having got home and now heard the judges' comments I've decided it was just as well I couldn't hear. I'd have ended up putting my foot through a telly that isn't my own.

I agree with you about the comments to Katie. They acted as though she had no right to be there. Wasn't it them who put her through last week? Is my short term memory better than the judges'? Well, yes, of course it is.

I'm sick to bloody death of bloody Cliftons. They're dancing (sic), doing Choreography Corner, demonstrating dances, farting about during the music reveal, doing links, reminiscing about their times together in Blackpool, and now the dad's peeled potato head is shining from the audience. And even with judgey over praise and marking they can't get a win for any of them. Aliona's won twice! Yes, I know they keep giving the Clifton wimmin no-hopers, but I'm taking my logic from the judges.

What is interesting to me was the difference in my reaction to Anton and Kevin in the finals

Kevin mugging to the camera in the tango and saying , " hell yeah" I think it was , was nauseating to me,

Anton went past the front camera equally showboating swinging his leg out and saying something, and it made me smile.

I just thought Anton was having the time of his life.

I haven't been a fan of Aton over the last few years having found him lazy and ungenerous to his partners, so I wonder whether I would be able to feel the same about Kevin.

At the moment hand the producers and good old Len seem to have made that an impossibility

IF the Clifton mob have to be on next year, can it be Jo just to see if she is better with a celeb and if not she can do choreography corner.

However if Kevin has to be on he really has to have a no hoper. Preferably elderly so we don't get frantic and bad.

I actually wouldn't have minded if Katie/Anton had been given a 10 for a dance with a few glitches how bonkers is that?
They looked slightly stunned to even be there, knew they didn't have a snowballs chance of finishing anywhere other than 4th and we're having a hoot.

For the judges had to trample over that by insinuating they shouldn't be there - yeah, well, you've only yourselves to blame with that one. The public gave you a choice. You chose. Live with it - was just mean spirited.

I know me too, you know that last showdance I had a feeling was Anton throwing everything at it and it was bonkers and joyful, why spoil the mood being mean.

Actually I haven't rewatch end but was Darcey included in the general down fest. I know I was cross with Bruno at one point but I can't remember Darcy ?

If so boooo

If not you go girl.

If we're being totally frank, the judges (to a lesser or greater extent) were absolute arses for the whole of the final.

It's supposed to be a celebration of the best dancers of the series. If they could be magnanimous to the hobbit, surely it wouldn't have killed them to temper their comments with regard to Katie and Jay. But no, they had to blether on as though they'd got chronic indigestion and then sat on a bunch of holly.

In fact, with that in mind, I have the following advice for Len and Craig in particular (please don't click if you're offended by extreme swearing)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56R0TCJXfzQ

Bib so true. I just don't get it. Jay was obviously popular with the public and very likely was going to win. I am not saying they should have over scored him, but up to the final Jay was the guy with the highest score average, so they obviously rate him as the best dancer, and even with the over scoring on the final Kellie only managed to equal him. (Without counting the quickstephaton in which Jay was one point above Kellie, so in the strictest sense, Jay still was above her.)

So, I just don't get why the sudden the best dancer didn't win thing on the night. By going only the judges standard the best dancer throughout the series actually won.
I just don't get why they couldn't be more positive.

The whole thing was mean spirited (unless you were Kellie). Hardly bright and sparkly and fun, was it?

I think if they'd had their VW first, they would have got a 10.

They usually throw 10s around like confetti in the final. I wouldn't have begrudged - in fact enjoyed - seeing them get a 10.