I say, it's rather scary out there!! Don't leave me all alone just yet, DOT's. I'm nervous if left alone.
This is Most Definitely Not An Appreciation Thread - Part 23
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Originally Posted by franglemand:
“
Kevin came second. Kevin always comes second. Kevin will always come second forever more until he becomes the Ghost of Second Placers past, haunting the studio and whispering "It should have been me! Why did they always wait to the very end to stop voting for me? It isn't fair..."”
“
Kevin came second. Kevin always comes second. Kevin will always come second forever more until he becomes the Ghost of Second Placers past, haunting the studio and whispering "It should have been me! Why did they always wait to the very end to stop voting for me? It isn't fair..."”
Kevin would come second in a one-horse race.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I'm not sure if I'm growing more cynical or the producers are becoming more manipulative but, for me, the show is becoming more and more controlled week on week, year on year. And the issue is once the producers have the taste of power they are very unwilling to let go of it.”
“I'm not sure if I'm growing more cynical or the producers are becoming more manipulative but, for me, the show is becoming more and more controlled week on week, year on year. And the issue is once the producers have the taste of power they are very unwilling to let go of it.”
I agree. The last 2 years it has been blatant, to put it politely...
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“I thought Naga and Pasha got on well too both driven and perfectionists, it's just sad that she didn't have a chance to show she was actually learning to dance and enjoy it, I think she could have had a real journey.
Strictly is a winning formular for the BBC so I can't see them changing it much but I personally would wish the blantent pushing for what they want would back off quite a lot. This final hasn't left the feeling of sour grapes that last years did, I hope they don't think it gives them a mandate to overproduce manufactured storylines.”
“I thought Naga and Pasha got on well too both driven and perfectionists, it's just sad that she didn't have a chance to show she was actually learning to dance and enjoy it, I think she could have had a real journey.
Strictly is a winning formular for the BBC so I can't see them changing it much but I personally would wish the blantent pushing for what they want would back off quite a lot. This final hasn't left the feeling of sour grapes that last years did, I hope they don't think it gives them a mandate to overproduce manufactured storylines.”
I think that is the 'proper' issue for the NDB's - they can take longer to settle in and be comfortable when there isn't actually time. Having a Latin and Ballroom before the first elimination helps, but for the likes of Melvin and Naga they're out before everything has time to gel. Which is a shame. I think this year was one where there really wasn't a bottom of the board as such. Everyone was what would be the traditional lower middle ranking and it made it very crowded with everyone jockeying for the same votes.
I don't think there is an answer as such - but it does show the value of two or three of genuine bottom of the boarders, or older cannon fodder first boots. People like Stephanie Beecham, who would have been aghast to have lasted more than one elimination
. TPTB not having an elimination free week after Will left didn't help, just meant that everyone left a week earlier.It will be interesting to see the cast list this year. I guess they will be going eyeballs out for a female win and we've reworked a few Strictly 'truths' - first winner to be in the dance off twice, only second winner to be lower than fourth on the first leaderboard (although still think that was more to do with the choreography than ability and am still half convinced a deliberate storyline plot. ... a definite Goughing
)
Originally Posted by Wiskas2:
“Kevin would come second in a one-horse race.”
“Kevin would come second in a one-horse race.”
If you see Kevin going to buy a raffle ticket - buy the next one after him. That's the winner.
Originally Posted by deisegirl:
“As if this thread would have been full of unappreciation if Danny had won!”
“As if this thread would have been full of unappreciation if Danny had won!”
Oh, I don't know. We managed well enough last year when Jay won.
There's always something to unappreciate
Originally Posted by perdiedumpling:
“Re Pasha - I think he wants to get the best out of his partners. In less able dancers, that makes for a slightly dull if well-intentioned dance (unless for monstrosities like Carol's "I Think I Love You" Hallowe'en rumba). He's never got the "ah, fcek it, let's go for comedy" memo - which I appreciate. He respects his partners, and I'll bet even those with two left feet will come away knowing a few steps. I'm not sure we could say the same for some of the duffers that last due to comedy routines, like Jeremy Vine.
In fairness, I think Katya got Ed far, with comedy, and taught him some steps, so it's not impossible, but I don't know that comedy routines are something Pasha's comfortable with.
But then I'm one who thought Pasha and Naga got on well, so may be seeing something different to others...”
“Re Pasha - I think he wants to get the best out of his partners. In less able dancers, that makes for a slightly dull if well-intentioned dance (unless for monstrosities like Carol's "I Think I Love You" Hallowe'en rumba). He's never got the "ah, fcek it, let's go for comedy" memo - which I appreciate. He respects his partners, and I'll bet even those with two left feet will come away knowing a few steps. I'm not sure we could say the same for some of the duffers that last due to comedy routines, like Jeremy Vine.
In fairness, I think Katya got Ed far, with comedy, and taught him some steps, so it's not impossible, but I don't know that comedy routines are something Pasha's comfortable with.
But then I'm one who thought Pasha and Naga got on well, so may be seeing something different to others...”
Think Pasha is similar to Aliona in that. Let's be honest Aliona would never have gone out first with Tony and possibly Gregg if she'd gone for full on comedy with them. I always like that she tried to teach them the dance. Of course Natalie and Katya have the balance just right, but I think Pasha and Aliona have different personalities and making someone a comedy turn just doesn't seem to be in their nature.
Originally Posted by Toasted Toad:
“Well, at least TPTB appear to have listened in one respect, which is to make the judges' choices some of the best dances rather than some of the worst, thus making the final a more up-beat affair.
If I were a Louise fan, I would have been furious at the way she was sabotaged, though, with judge's choice.
That's one of the reasons I think it perfectly fair for viewers to choose to base their vote on the series of the whole rather than just the final night - one or more couples can be affected by poor dance choice (Jay and Georgia last year other notable examples)
"One night only" viewers will also be far more subject to judges' pimping efforts, as they will not have seen the judges adopt their favourites several weeks, or even months, back.
And finally, this is a competition that has gone on for 3 months, not one night. The final is culmination and celebration (the latter aspect missing last year) of their achievements. However, people might want to vote for the person who has given them the most pleasure over 3 months, for whatever reason, not just on one night.
This year, although Danny was the best dancer, he did not do himself justice in the final, but, unlike Jay last year, he evidently did not have enough goodwill accumulated from the previous 3 months to make up for it. At least he finished on a high - that samba. Wow!”
“Well, at least TPTB appear to have listened in one respect, which is to make the judges' choices some of the best dances rather than some of the worst, thus making the final a more up-beat affair.
If I were a Louise fan, I would have been furious at the way she was sabotaged, though, with judge's choice.
That's one of the reasons I think it perfectly fair for viewers to choose to base their vote on the series of the whole rather than just the final night - one or more couples can be affected by poor dance choice (Jay and Georgia last year other notable examples)
"One night only" viewers will also be far more subject to judges' pimping efforts, as they will not have seen the judges adopt their favourites several weeks, or even months, back.
And finally, this is a competition that has gone on for 3 months, not one night. The final is culmination and celebration (the latter aspect missing last year) of their achievements. However, people might want to vote for the person who has given them the most pleasure over 3 months, for whatever reason, not just on one night.
This year, although Danny was the best dancer, he did not do himself justice in the final, but, unlike Jay last year, he evidently did not have enough goodwill accumulated from the previous 3 months to make up for it. At least he finished on a high - that samba. Wow!”
The irony being that if the judges had gone for "early dances we desperately wanted to give a 10 to" last year they would have got their damn Jive!
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“The irony being that if the judges had gone for "early dances we desperately wanted to give a 10 to" last year they would have got their damn Jive!”
“The irony being that if the judges had gone for "early dances we desperately wanted to give a 10 to" last year they would have got their damn Jive!”
As long as I never have to see a week one tango in the final again, I'm happy
Did feel for Louise, though. Rotten pick for her on every level.
Am still a bit baffled by how she can have such a floppy core after 4 months, though
Originally Posted by aggs:
“I think that is the 'proper' issue for the NDB's - they can take longer to settle in and be comfortable when there isn't actually time. Having a Latin and Ballroom before the first elimination helps, but for the likes of Melvin and Naga they're out before everything has time to gel. Which is a shame. I think this year was one where there really wasn't a bottom of the board as such. Everyone was what would be the traditional lower middle ranking and it made it very crowded with everyone jockeying for the same votes.
I don't think there is an answer as such - but it does show the value of two or three of genuine bottom of the boarders, or older cannon fodder first boots. People like Stephanie Beecham, who would have been aghast to have lasted more than one elimination. TPTB not having an elimination free week after Will left didn't help, just meant that everyone left a week earlier.
It will be interesting to see the cast list this year. I guess they will be going eyeballs out for a female win and we've reworked a few Strictly 'truths' - first winner to be in the dance off twice, only second winner to be lower than fourth on the first leaderboard (although still think that was more to do with the choreography than ability and am still half convinced a deliberate storyline plot. ... a definite Goughing)”
“I think that is the 'proper' issue for the NDB's - they can take longer to settle in and be comfortable when there isn't actually time. Having a Latin and Ballroom before the first elimination helps, but for the likes of Melvin and Naga they're out before everything has time to gel. Which is a shame. I think this year was one where there really wasn't a bottom of the board as such. Everyone was what would be the traditional lower middle ranking and it made it very crowded with everyone jockeying for the same votes.
I don't think there is an answer as such - but it does show the value of two or three of genuine bottom of the boarders, or older cannon fodder first boots. People like Stephanie Beecham, who would have been aghast to have lasted more than one elimination
. TPTB not having an elimination free week after Will left didn't help, just meant that everyone left a week earlier.It will be interesting to see the cast list this year. I guess they will be going eyeballs out for a female win and we've reworked a few Strictly 'truths' - first winner to be in the dance off twice, only second winner to be lower than fourth on the first leaderboard (although still think that was more to do with the choreography than ability and am still half convinced a deliberate storyline plot. ... a definite Goughing
)”
Yep. I think that's spot on. We do need a couple of hopeless cases to give the others enough time to find their feet. I suppose Ed and Lesley might have been earmarked for that role, but they flipping well went and entertained us instead.
An elimination free week would at least let us have a Cloudier showdance, too
Originally Posted by aggs:
“As long as I never have to see a week one tango in the final again, I'm happy
Did feel for Louise, though. Rotten pick for her on every level.
Am still a bit baffled by how she can have such a floppy core after 4 months, though”
“As long as I never have to see a week one tango in the final again, I'm happy
Did feel for Louise, though. Rotten pick for her on every level.
Am still a bit baffled by how she can have such a floppy core after 4 months, though
”
Yep 3 months of pimping and protection to be thrown under the bus in the first dance of the final
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I'm not sure if I'm growing more cynical or the producers are becoming more manipulative but, for me, the show is becoming more and more controlled week on week, year on year. And the issue is once the producers have the taste of power they are very unwilling to let go of it.”
“I'm not sure if I'm growing more cynical or the producers are becoming more manipulative but, for me, the show is becoming more and more controlled week on week, year on year. And the issue is once the producers have the taste of power they are very unwilling to let go of it.”
It's definitely the producers. They manipulated everything this year, from the music choices to the dances they would be performing and judges scoring just so they could get the final three that they wanted. I would say it's about blackpool week when it got really obvious on what celebs they wanted gone and in which order.
Louise was hung out to dry with her cha cha but as she won the cha cha challenge maybe the judges thought she would be brilliant dancing around in her knickers in the final. Couple that with a poor choice of showdance and she was toast.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.
Deeply unappreciating the fact that I had a lovely dream last night where Danny won and the Cliftons were weeping and crying into each other's arms. Then I woke up in a nightmare where Ore had actually won and nobody would shut up about it.
Originally Posted by Christian Cage:
“It's definitely the producers. They manipulated everything this year, from the music choices to the dances they would be performing and judges scoring just so they could get the final three that they wanted. I would say it's about blackpool week when it got really obvious on what celebs they wanted gone and in which order.”
“It's definitely the producers. They manipulated everything this year, from the music choices to the dances they would be performing and judges scoring just so they could get the final three that they wanted. I would say it's about blackpool week when it got really obvious on what celebs they wanted gone and in which order.”
I stopped watching it a few weeks ago because of this. I watched the dances on YT and the final announcement and gave the rest a miss.
I actually really liked Ore but couldn't stand the manipulation.
Having seen the final, he deserved it but I think he won on the casual viewer vote. I still think Danny had the biggest following into and throughout the final, but his was a fraction of the following Jay had last year.
I'm happy with the result as I could never really get on board with Danny (although the VW QS and Samba were awesome)
Originally Posted by smude:
“Louise was hung out to dry with her cha cha but as she won the cha cha challenge maybe the judges thought she would be brilliant dancing around in her knickers in the final. Couple that with a poor choice of showdance and she was toast.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.”
“Louise was hung out to dry with her cha cha but as she won the cha cha challenge maybe the judges thought she would be brilliant dancing around in her knickers in the final. Couple that with a poor choice of showdance and she was toast.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.”
I think you're right about the showdances mattering this year (they don't always), but these three were closely matched and the dance choices probably did clinch/lose a lot votes.
BIB. Pssst! Caroline
Watching the clips of this years contestants last night , I felt that Laura would have gone further in the competition if she had a partner who showcased her more rather than self promotion
Originally Posted by aggs:
“As long as I never have to see a week one tango in the final again, I'm happy
Did feel for Louise, though. Rotten pick for her on every level.
Am still a bit baffled by how she can have such a floppy core after 4 months, though”
“As long as I never have to see a week one tango in the final again, I'm happy
Did feel for Louise, though. Rotten pick for her on every level.
Am still a bit baffled by how she can have such a floppy core after 4 months, though
”
She looked as uncomfortable and self conscious as she did the first time round. Seemed odd to give her the lowest impact dance when there had been such a concerted push behind her over the last 2 weeks. No way that dance could compete with the second coming of Gene Kelly and that sadly botched quickstep.
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“Think Pasha is similar to Aliona in that. Let's be honest Aliona would never have gone out first with Tony and possibly Gregg if she'd gone for full on comedy with them. I always like that she tried to teach them the dance. Of course Natalie and Katya have the balance just right, but I think Pasha and Aliona have different personalities and making someone a comedy turn just doesn't seem to be in their nature.”
“Think Pasha is similar to Aliona in that. Let's be honest Aliona would never have gone out first with Tony and possibly Gregg if she'd gone for full on comedy with them. I always like that she tried to teach them the dance. Of course Natalie and Katya have the balance just right, but I think Pasha and Aliona have different personalities and making someone a comedy turn just doesn't seem to be in their nature.”
To be honest, I think Gregg was hampered more by being Gregg than anything Aliona may have/not done and Tony Jacklin by giving the almost septuagenarian a Charleston first Latin dance out
I do wonder, sometimes, if the celebs (and possibly some pro's with outside interests) sign up on the understanding that they aren't there for the long haul.
Originally Posted by Christian Cage:
“It's definitely the producers. They manipulated everything this year, from the music choices to the dances they would be performing and judges scoring just so they could get the final three that they wanted. I would say it's about blackpool week when it got really obvious on what celebs they wanted gone and in which order.”
“It's definitely the producers. They manipulated everything this year, from the music choices to the dances they would be performing and judges scoring just so they could get the final three that they wanted. I would say it's about blackpool week when it got really obvious on what celebs they wanted gone and in which order.”
The thing is last year they didn't really get a grip on it resulting in them bringing out the big guns for the final which made it a horrible bit fascinating affair as it was obviously Jay v TPTB at that point. Admittedly, he and Aliona didn't help themselves to an extent but the final was anything but a joyful affair.
They started gunning for Danny and Oti much earlier on - they gave Ore the opportunity to respond to the dance before rumours and even addressed them on the main show but didn't do the same with Danny. The ITT panels one after the other dismissed him as 'too good'. The marking started to become skewed, sometimes actually in his favour, which made him looked as much overmarked as undermarked (the big mistake they made with Jay is allowed him to generate a sympathy vote). But all this meant is by the time the final came around they'd already cut him off at the knees so could, thankfully, make it a happier affair.
Now I see it I don't know if I love Strictly enough anymore to follow next year. Once producers get the taste of power that's it and I can just see the manipulation growing. I've just about accepted it on The X Factor as I see the commercial purpose for pushing certain acts and it's fascinating to see if it can be carried off. But Strictly up to last year always represented fairness... or maybe I was too wet behind the ears to accept the truth.
Originally Posted by smude:
“Louise was hung out to dry with her cha cha but as she won the cha cha challenge maybe the judges thought she would be brilliant dancing around in her knickers in the final. Couple that with a poor choice of showdance and she was toast.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.”
“Louise was hung out to dry with her cha cha but as she won the cha cha challenge maybe the judges thought she would be brilliant dancing around in her knickers in the final. Couple that with a poor choice of showdance and she was toast.
Don't do contemporary in the final Kevin and Oti. Only person to get away with it was Jay.
Joanne pitched it right with two showdances and a crowd pleasing jive. Credit to her [said through gritted teeth]
I loved Oti and Danny's showdance but maybe too angst for the final and the casual viewer.”
Think TTFs show-dance was particularly uninspired. Almost a straight steal form Karen's show-dance for Mark, with a bit of their Mr&Mrs usual barefoot contempowaft done in front of a slow song guest artist, all that was missing was the snake move round TTF's leg.
However, good balance between the three dances for style.
Loved Oti's show-dance choreography. Wondering if some of the glittery ticker-tape was left on the dance floor causing the slips in their QS. Thought their Samba needed an 11 paddle. Better than last time.
Again, good balance of dance styles.
Thought the blatant bigging up of the AS with Gene Kelly's widow in the audience set the scene for their remaining dances. Especially when they followed up with a mix of Tom Chambers & Natalie G's show-dance AS, finishing off with a tired Jive.
So 2 AS plus a Jive seems to be a winning combo.
Watched some old clips on Youtube of Brendan and Sophie Elis Bextor - from 2013 and she was truly amazing! My fave celebrity to ever dance on the Strictly Dance Floor! 
Made me sad to see just how dull & crap Ore really is... No wow factor, 2x Gene Kelly routines and the widow in the fecking audience... How much more Manipulation do they need?
Made me sad to see just how dull & crap Ore really is... No wow factor, 2x Gene Kelly routines and the widow in the fecking audience... How much more Manipulation do they need?
Originally Posted by MorticiaA:
“She looked as uncomfortable and self conscious as she did the first time round. Seemed odd to give her the lowest impact dance when there had been such a concerted push behind her over the last 2 weeks. No way that dance could compete with the second coming of Gene Kelly and that sadly botched quickstep.”
“She looked as uncomfortable and self conscious as she did the first time round. Seemed odd to give her the lowest impact dance when there had been such a concerted push behind her over the last 2 weeks. No way that dance could compete with the second coming of Gene Kelly and that sadly botched quickstep.”
I think it shows that when TPTB have a storyboard, it is a thing that happens - whether it does or not. The cha cha was supposed to be her breakthrough dance - so it that is what it was, regardless of the actual fact it wasn't - either in week 3 or the challenge (when at least she had a more traditional outfit and looked less like she was dying inside). If she had to have a 'breakthrough' Latin - then redo the Charleston. It's not like the make up was excessive and couldn't have been adapted.
(I think Louise and Ore's 'Strictly Journeys' have to be 2 of the most heavily sign posted ever. On here, clever peeps had nailed Louise's storyline from the minute she put on Vicky Giggles first creation and it was still being promoted by Zoe on ITT on Friday, and Ore had control of the NDB from week 3)
Originally Posted by Barney06:
“Watching the clips of this years contestants last night , I felt that Laura would have gone further in the competition if she had a partner who showcased her more rather than self promotion”
“Watching the clips of this years contestants last night , I felt that Laura would have gone further in the competition if she had a partner who showcased her more rather than self promotion”
I think Laura was hindered by many things, but the ankle injury was the clincher. There just isn't the time to recover and no dance is easy on the ankles so once the bye has been deployed it's just dead dancer limping, really.
Originally Posted by Toasted Toad:
“Well, at least TPTB appear to have listened in one respect, which is to make the judges' choices some of the best dances rather than some of the worst, thus making the final a more up-beat affair.
If I were a Louise fan, I would have been furious at the way she was sabotaged, though, with judge's choice.
That's one of the reasons I think it perfectly fair for viewers to choose to base their vote on the series of the whole rather than just the final night - one or more couples can be affected by poor dance choice (Jay and Georgia last year other notable examples)
"One night only" viewers will also be far more subject to judges' pimping efforts, as they will not have seen the judges adopt their favourites several weeks, or even months, back.
And finally, this is a competition that has gone on for 3 months, not one night. The final is culmination and celebration (the latter aspect missing last year) of their achievements. However, people might want to vote for the person who has given them the most pleasure over 3 months, for whatever reason, not just on one night.
This year, although Danny was the best dancer, he did not do himself justice in the final, but, unlike Jay last year, he evidently did not have enough goodwill accumulated from the previous 3 months to make up for it. At least he finished on a high - that samba. Wow!”
“Well, at least TPTB appear to have listened in one respect, which is to make the judges' choices some of the best dances rather than some of the worst, thus making the final a more up-beat affair.
If I were a Louise fan, I would have been furious at the way she was sabotaged, though, with judge's choice.
That's one of the reasons I think it perfectly fair for viewers to choose to base their vote on the series of the whole rather than just the final night - one or more couples can be affected by poor dance choice (Jay and Georgia last year other notable examples)
"One night only" viewers will also be far more subject to judges' pimping efforts, as they will not have seen the judges adopt their favourites several weeks, or even months, back.
And finally, this is a competition that has gone on for 3 months, not one night. The final is culmination and celebration (the latter aspect missing last year) of their achievements. However, people might want to vote for the person who has given them the most pleasure over 3 months, for whatever reason, not just on one night.
This year, although Danny was the best dancer, he did not do himself justice in the final, but, unlike Jay last year, he evidently did not have enough goodwill accumulated from the previous 3 months to make up for it. At least he finished on a high - that samba. Wow!”
Maybe but..I am not a "one night only" viewer. I am a watch every titbit and morsel I can find viewer. I watch all the live shows, sometimes on catch up but I always watch. I also rewatch individual dances and judges critiques several times. I watch ITT every episode. And I STILL don't know who the judge's favourite is supposed to be, neither individualy or collectively. From these boards I was led to believe it was Kevin and Louise. But through the series I have seen no real evidence of any "adoption" by a judge or judges.
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