Yes, we all definitely know for 100% definite that his as yet unknown entity will definitely 100% stink. We all definitely know this.

For definite.

<eyeroll>

Yes, I think you're right. Opinions have become very polarised of late.

Personally I am really looking forward to a bright and silly Christmas episode. But I can see those who really enjoyed the darkness of (for instance) Heaven Sent wouldn't be so keen.

I suppose for me the interesting part of the Christmas episode will be the ending, and where it leaves River Song. Is it (as has been heavily suggested) her final adventure before heading off to the Library. Will Steve Pemberton make a cameo at the end of the episode?

I do think having a very funny episode with something very sad at the end can actually make the emotional impact even harder.

I think some people just forget that they don't speak for everyone when they decide whether an episode is rubbish or not. :P

I'm wondering how they'll tackle the issue of Doctor Who's probable hiatus next year? I'll be disappointed if the most specific ETA they can give is "The Doctor will return!"

I've been enjoying the darkness of series 9 but am also looking forward to a more light hearted Christmas special. I don't usually take the Christmas specials very seriously anyway and they usually are more frivolous than the main series.

I'm largely indifferent about River. Sometimes she can be good fun, other times she's like a walking catchphrase generator. But I'm looking forward to seeing her interaction with 12 and at least it's been a decent amount of time since she was last in it.

Lol!

If he can do that, then he has just uncovered the holy grail of entertainment. People spend years and millions upon millions to try to do just that...

Or, perhaps, just maybe, you don't like them, so don't understand why others do. Just maybe...

<eyeroll>

The one last year was the best christmas special yet, i'll grant your a christmas carol was pretty awful though, a contender for worst doctor who episode ever.

Some of "the public" do like River. This bit of the public, anyway. And as for that "lesbian lizard woman" - yes, anytime.


I think the clue is in the words "another person". People want different things - let them get on with wanting; doesn't mean they're going to get.

It's fine for people to want different things and say so; why not?

Out of all the Christmas specials that we've had since 2005, there are 3 for me which soar head and shoulders above the rest and are way better than some in series episodes, and out of those three, two are Moffat written one's. They are, namely, A Christmas Carol, and Last Christmas (with my other favourite being the Christmas invasion).

Admittedly he's written some poor or mediocre one's too, but the two of his I mentioned above come into my head as two of my favourite episodes overall in his era.

I strangely have noticed a pattern in which the incarnations first christmas special seem's to me to be their best ( As you can see by my favourites) and then they vary in quality thereafter, but obviously hoping that isn't the case this time.

No ones saying its not fine for people to want different things. I thought I made that quite clear in my post because its always the first thing people jump on ('Do you have a problem with different opinions?!?!?! OMG Fascist...er no, not at all) as if they're dispensing this amazing wisdom that *shock horror* people like different things..,everyone knows this.

My point was is that comparatively DW fans seem to be such a wide ranging and disparate group of people that while people refer to 'DW fans' they are now impossible to categorize and tend to have extreme opposites of opinion to a degree that I dont think ive seen in fans of other shows. While of course when you get millions of people watching anything you will get a wide range of opinions and thats expected with DW it just seems so ludicrously split. With other shows I've watched closely and been a 'fanboy' of (X Files, TWD) in among all the opinons there has seemed to be a general consensus about where the show should improve and what it does well and doesnt. With DW there is nothing approaching that. Hence my examples. That for every ten people cheering that we are getting a 'fun' Xmas special there are another ten moaning about it. Its on too early/its on too late. Its too dark/Its too silly, more two parters now!/enough of the two parters already, etc etc etc.

Which just proves that when some people claim people like RTD and Moffat should 'listen to the fans more' they are talking nonsense because its impossible to please them. And of all the tv shows on earth I think DW fans tend to the trickiest of all.

I love River. I love Vastra and Jenny. I love Strax. I love Clara to bits. I love Capaldi. I love Moffat. I loved RTD. I loved Matt Smith. I loved Amy Pond. I loved Tennant. I loved Donna. I loved Martha. I loved Rose. I loved Eccleston. I loved McGann. All the genuine feelings I had at the time. I might reassess my love in light of my new interests, but loved loved loved them all. I only got into Who in 1996 but I can now safely say that I love just about all of the Classic Doctors and companions in some way, even the wildly unpopular ones, because they're part of one of the best and best-loved TV shows ever made. Yes, it's been dull, yes it's been wobbly and repetitive, yes it's been hysterical and melodramatic, but it's always been Doctor Who and I wouldn't rewrite it. Not one line. Even "The Twin Dilemma".

I love this post.

I like that, amos. It is what it is. I like the debates, but love Doctor Who. Warts and all. (No offence, Shockeye.) If it was brilliant to everybody all the time it would mean a) it's impossibly unique in TV history and b) no point in looking at this place and other forums!

It's inevitable. There's nothing quite like DW. Most genre shows are not all that old and were written with a very tight specification as to tone, lead characters, setting and basic arc. They are designed with a very narrow target audience in mind. It's no wonder the audience share a lot of the same tastes in things - the producers had a fairly specific set of types of people they were aiming at and sold them an easy to grasp idea of what to expect from their show.

Compare that to Doctor Who. What is it, exactly? A family show? A children's show? Young adults cult show? Suitable for old fans of the classic stuff? All of these things.
Is it science fiction? Fantasy? Adventure? Action? A brain teaser? Comedy? Tragic? Sentimental? Hard nosed? A fun lead in to Saturday night on the telly? All of that too.

Who is the lead hero? 20s daft guy? 30s chick magnet? 50s grumpy bloke? What's his personality type?

What is the setting? Changes all the time.

How old is the fanbase? All ages. Some have been watching it since the sixties or seventies when the show was a rather different beast. Some have picked it up in the last few years after it was restarted with a very different, modern, design.

Is the show about the Doctor? It didn't used to be. It used to be about random places he landed. These days it's about him. When it's not all about him and how bloomin' important he is, it's about the companions. It never used to be about the companions. We used to see the show through the eyes of the companions, but it was rarely all that much *about* them. Now it is.

No wonder there's never a consensus. Nothing else has been or attempts to be so many different things.

I have to agree with all of this x 1000 and more. Its true. There really is no other show with such a diverse fan base. And thats definitely a good thing.

Lovely post... but would you rewrite Fear Her?

'Night Terrors' was pretty close...

I've never understood why people are sitting in front of the TV on Christmas day anyway. It was never allowed on in our house. It's a social occasion. I've always considered it rude and anti-social when you're a guest and people are sitting watching TV.

I will be watching when I have peace and quiet with everyone in bed as I usually do.

Well, clearly those highly rated Morecambe and Wise specials were watched by someone!

Nope, I'd re-draw it, Chloe Webber style!

Without all the Olympic Games crap, Fear Her would probably have been a tolerable episode. Certainly not one of the better ones IMO, but OK.
It was that nonsense that just made it irretrievably awful IMO.

What about In the Forest of the Night? surely defending that is a bit of a task for anyone.

That lovely reveal shot near the beginning of London overgrown is better than the entirety of Fear Her.

I'd say they were both naff episodes but for completely opposite reasons. Bore her had a decent concept (the idea of drawings coming alive sounded great to me and imagined they could be animated beautifully) but zero budget. Forest of the Night seemed to have a decent budget and at least looked impressive but not a great concept.

If I had my way I would take the budget from Forest and put it into Bore her then at least there might be one decent episode out of the pair of them.

I am the guest - at my son's house - and they put DW on for me as I'm a fan and they're not. How to tell them, when they think they're doing something nice for me, that I'd rather wait and watch alone rather than against a background of chatter?

Especially when the Xmas special is cringingly awful and I have to convince them that the series is so much better.