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The 'AM death watch' thread... |
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#301 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,184
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Quote:
Thurnau is north east of Nuernberg, its signal was in the noise daytime where I was. At night 1422 was the best signal.
The LWs still fill in significant gaps, though probably fewer and fewer listeners - that's something I'd like to see, the actual numbers per slice of the band. I'd go further than your statement: as pubcasters with no ads both orgs could probably shed listeners and wavebands easily. Both do not have as good FM coverage as their Land alternatives - the fmscan.org entries make this very clear. |
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#302 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
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Poland is switching off their 225 longwave transmitter on 1 March 2015.
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#303 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 555
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Quote:
Poland is switching off their 225 longwave transmitter on 1 March 2015.
That means the BBC could put the BBC Radio Four long wave transmitters in Scotland on 225 kHz which was the original plan prior to 1978 (though this never happened). If I remember correctly, they were allocated 198 kHz at the last minute. |
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#304 |
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Join Date: May 2003
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Or just put Westerglen on 225 and leave Burghead on 198. The longwave "SFN" doesn't work. This would increase the distance between the two 198 stations.
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#305 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,114
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Quote:
Poland is switching off their 225 longwave transmitter on 1 March 2015.
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#306 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Or just put Westerglen on 225 and leave Burghead on 198. The longwave "SFN" doesn't work. This would increase the distance between the two 198 stations.
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#307 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,436
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Quote:
That means the BBC could put the BBC Radio Four long wave transmitters in Scotland on 225 kHz which was the original plan prior to 1978 (though this never happened).
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Or just put Westerglen on 225 and leave Burghead on 198. The longwave "SFN" doesn't work. This would increase the distance between the two 198 stations.
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If I remember correctly, they were allocated 198 kHz at the last minute.
It would make a lot of sense to change Westerglen to 225, especially as the cost would be very low. However, I can't see it happening because only DAB is considered to be politically correct...
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#308 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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Quote:
I missed that one. Source please?
http://swldxbulgaria.blogspot.co.uk/...-closures.html |
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#309 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
It would make a lot of sense to change Westerglen to 225, especially as the cost would be very low. However, I can't see it happening because only DAB is considered to be politically correct...
![]() It's an old mode with a limited number of listeners especially in Scotland, I suspect most would continue to listen on 198 KHz anyway unless a lot more money was spent on an advertising campaign. Just not worth it considering the limited life for Long Wave in the UK. |
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#310 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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R4 Westerglen on 225 would SAVE money !
Quote:
The cost is going to be well up in five figures at least. Perhaps not a huge amount but money the BBC could spend better elsewhere.
The capital cost would be low, and there would be no ongoing expenditure. In fact, the change could save money every year because the fill-in transmitters in the 'mush' areas (Aberdeen 1449, Carlisle 1485 and Newcastle 603) would become unnecessary and could be switched off. It would be a very positive example of DQF in action. Quote:
I suspect most would continue to listen on 198 kHz anyway unless a lot more money was spent on an advertising campaign.
Why would any money need to be spent? ![]() By definition, just a few announcements on R4LW would be sufficient, and they would be completely free ! |
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#311 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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I was referring to the costs of the actual change though there could be capital costs involved in changes to the antenna, ATU and transmitter. All those costs mount up and the contractors will not be doing anything for nothing as well as expecting a profit from the work.
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#312 |
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Quote:
Spoke too soon here is the source for those who are interested
http://swldxbulgaria.blogspot.co.uk/...-closures.html When the Polish Radio External Service were considering using the longwave transmitter some years back, as they were having problems with their shortwave transmitters, they said on air in their English service that whilst this was possible it was not a long term solution as the longwave transmitter would be closing down in a few years time. |
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#313 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,114
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Quote:
The source quoted by the DX'er reporting this in open_dx is a post on a private forum for EBU members, no official announcement by Polish Radio as far as I am aware.
When the Polish Radio External Service were considering using the longwave transmitter some years back, as they were having problems with their shortwave transmitters, they said on air in their English service that whilst this was possible it was not a long term solution as the longwave transmitter would be closing down in a few years time. |
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#314 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cumbria
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Until the late eighties, when Radio 1 was allocated 97-99 FM, about half of all radio listening in this country was to AM. Basic cars and older cars 30 years ago were mostly fitted with AM radios and single band pocket radios were still popular.
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#315 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Perthshire
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Quote:
Until the late eighties, when Radio 1 was allocated 97-99 FM, about half of all radio listening in this country was to AM. Basic cars and older cars 30 years ago were mostly fitted with AM radios and single band pocket radios were still popular.
Prior to 1982, very few cars had FM radios - even top end models, and reception was rubbish due to several reasons - lack of RDS so frequent retuning was needed, most (all?) BBC tx's were horizontally polarised and most ILR's had pitifully low powered tx's. ILR's promoted their AM frequency because most potential listeners would be listening to Radio 1 or Radio 2 on AM. Before Radio 2 became an FM only station, the majority of their listeners were still using AM. The reasons were simple. Radio 2 had the best coverage on MW of all the BBC stations - no PLA's or LED lamps in these days to cause interference, and the demographic targeted was very much the 45+ generation who had grown up in the 30's, 40's, 50's and '60's and to whom MW/AM was the way you listened to the radio. Obviously the fact that Radio 1, the most popular station in the country was on MW for most of the time meant that FM didn't really become popular until the late '80's. Radio 1 getting FM, the loss of Radio 2 MW, and the frequency splitting on the ILR's was what kick started FM in this country. |
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#316 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Shropshire
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Quote:
It was a lot more than half who were listening on AM.
Prior to 1982, very few cars had FM radios - even top end models, and reception was rubbish due to several reasons - lack of RDS so frequent retuning was needed, most (all?) BBC tx's were horizontally polarised and most ILR's had pitifully low powered tx's. ILR's promoted their AM frequency because most potential listeners would be listening to Radio 1 or Radio 2 on AM.
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#317 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,277
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When the AM switch off happens and the same broadcast of a station can be heard on both DAB and FM they should either shut the FM station down where there are no opt outs for anything at all or broadcast a brand new BBC local station on FM.
Even on the BBC's where there are opt-outs for sport, they ought to have an entirely different output 24/7/365 on DAB and FM apart from possibly news at the top of the hour. Occasional opt-outs really need to be made a thing of the past come AM switch-off. |
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#318 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 16,967
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Quote:
It was a lot more than half who were listening on AM.
Prior to 1982, very few cars had FM radios - even top end models, and reception was rubbish due to several reasons - lack of RDS so frequent retuning was needed, most (all?) BBC tx's were horizontally polarised and most ILR's had pitifully low powered tx's. ILR's promoted their AM frequency because most potential listeners would be listening to Radio 1 or Radio 2 on AM. Before Radio 2 became an FM only station, the majority of their listeners were still using AM. The reasons were simple. Radio 2 had the best coverage on MW of all the BBC stations - no PLA's or LED lamps in these days to cause interference, and the demographic targeted was very much the 45+ generation who had grown up in the 30's, 40's, 50's and '60's and to whom MW/AM was the way you listened to the radio. Obviously the fact that Radio 1, the most popular station in the country was on MW for most of the time meant that FM didn't really become popular until the late '80's. Radio 1 getting FM, the loss of Radio 2 MW, and the frequency splitting on the ILR's was what kick started FM in this country. I'd say the move of the BBC's music stations and new local stations being FM only in the nineties saw the big shift to FM. |
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#319 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Perthshire
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FM tended to be most popular with Radio 3 listeners in those days, as an entire opera would sound terrible on 1215 khz. .
I lived in Edinburgh in the 70's and 80's and could get Radio Forth and Radio Clyde on FM. Radio Clyde played a lot of 12" singles and sounded better than Forth.....kind of the effect of switching on the "loudness" on hi-fi amp. Both sounded miles better than Radio 1 on MW. Even when Radio 1 was on Radio 2's FM, it was kind of flat sounding compared to the ILR's. May be have been before PCM was used to distribute the signal. I remember the first time I saw the "stereo" light lit on my parents Sanyo Music Centre. Radio Clyde was in stereo from launch at the start of '74. The BBC nationals didn't go stereo until a few months...maybe years later. Radio 2, Radio 3 and Radio 4 held little appeal for a pop mad kid like me so apart from the top 40 on a Sunday, my radio listening was all to R1 on MW, Forth and Clyde on FM. |
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#320 |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8,079
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Quote:
Everything sounds terrible on 1215Khz !
I lived in Edinburgh in the 70's and 80's and could get Radio Forth and Radio Clyde on FM. Radio Clyde played a lot of 12" singles and sounded better than Forth.....kind of the effect of switching on the "loudness" on hi-fi amp. Both sounded miles better than Radio 1 on MW. Even when Radio 1 was on Radio 2's FM, it was kind of flat sounding compared to the ILR's. May be have been before PCM was used to distribute the signal. The IBA didn't allow ILR to apply any processing to FM (other than a limiter) so it's odd there was a difference at all. |
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#321 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,184
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An update on the Polish 225 transmitter from the same person who saw the information in the EBU forum.. A Polish listener contacted them and someone who works for Polish Radio and helped construct the site says he is unaware of any plans.
"It turns out to broadcast on the long waves for the 1st program is 40-50% cheaper than FM, the reason is that the LW transmitter is wholly owned by the Polish Radio and FM transmitters are leased from a private company. 3 months ago marked the 15th anniversary of the station in Soltsy Kujwalski. The general director of the Polish Radio said that more than 40% of the audience listen to Polish Radio 1 on longwave, the transmitter has 10-15 years more life in it. In 2012 there were proposals to close it because of financial problems, many letters objecting to this were received, several were read out on air." (Amended Google translation from Russian) |
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#322 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SE Lincolnshire
Posts: 76
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Quote:
When the AM switch off happens and the same broadcast of a station can be heard on both DAB and FM they should either shut the FM station down where there are no opt outs for anything at all or broadcast a brand new BBC local station on FM.
Even on the BBC's where there are opt-outs for sport, they ought to have an entirely different output 24/7/365 on DAB and FM apart from possibly news at the top of the hour. Occasional opt-outs really need to be made a thing of the past come AM switch-off. |
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#323 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 16,967
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Quote:
Everything sounds terrible on 1215Khz !
I lived in Edinburgh in the 70's and 80's and could get Radio Forth and Radio Clyde on FM. Radio Clyde played a lot of 12" singles and sounded better than Forth.....kind of the effect of switching on the "loudness" on hi-fi amp. Both sounded miles better than Radio 1 on MW. Even when Radio 1 was on Radio 2's FM, it was kind of flat sounding compared to the ILR's. May be have been before PCM was used to distribute the signal. I remember the first time I saw the "stereo" light lit on my parents Sanyo Music Centre. Radio Clyde was in stereo from launch at the start of '74. The BBC nationals didn't go stereo until a few months...maybe years later. Radio 2, Radio 3 and Radio 4 held little appeal for a pop mad kid like me so apart from the top 40 on a Sunday, my radio listening was all to R1 on MW, Forth and Clyde on FM. |
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#324 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,114
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Quote:
Everything sounds terrible on 1215Khz !
I lived in Edinburgh in the 70's and 80's and could get Radio Forth and Radio Clyde on FM. Radio Clyde played a lot of 12" singles and sounded better than Forth.....kind of the effect of switching on the "loudness" on hi-fi amp. Both sounded miles better than Radio 1 on MW. Even when Radio 1 was on Radio 2's FM, it was kind of flat sounding compared to the ILR's. May be have been before PCM was used to distribute the signal. I remember the first time I saw the "stereo" light lit on my parents Sanyo Music Centre. Radio Clyde was in stereo from launch at the start of '74. The BBC nationals didn't go stereo until a few months...maybe years later. Radio 2, Radio 3 and Radio 4 held little appeal for a pop mad kid like me so apart from the top 40 on a Sunday, my radio listening was all to R1 on MW, Forth and Clyde on FM. Many but not all transmitters were in stereo by the time of the frequency changes in 1978.. There are still a couple in Scotland today that are in Mono for Radio Scotland and Radio Nan Gaidheal. |
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#325 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,572
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Quote:
An update on the Polish 225 transmitter from the same person who saw the information in the EBU forum.. A Polish listener contacted them and someone who works for Polish Radio and helped construct the site says he is unaware of any plans.
"It turns out to broadcast on the long waves for the 1st program is 40-50% cheaper than FM, the reason is that the LW transmitter is wholly owned by the Polish Radio and FM transmitters are leased from a private company. 3 months ago marked the 15th anniversary of the station in Soltsy Kujwalski. The general director of the Polish Radio said that more than 40% of the audience listen to Polish Radio 1 on longwave, the transmitter has 10-15 years more life in it. In 2012 there were proposals to close it because of financial problems, many letters objecting to this were received, several were read out on air." (Amended Google translation from Russian) Overall LW operating costs tend to be more than FM and maintenance of old transmitters and masts can take up a lot of extra costs which perhaps some in Polish radio are not taking into account? Poland is also rolling out DAB+ and internet whose operating costs are much lower than FM or AM? From 2013 when SW was cut http://swling.com/blog/2013/10/polis...ons-shortwave/ Quote:
Polish Radio is now heavily promoting its DAB+ transmissions, so they are even advising listeners of their external service to listen on digital radios.
From http://www.wohnort.org/dab/poland.htmlQuote:
Future Sites: Shutting down 225 will help pay for the DAB+ rollout but probably has a lot of opposition?
Gdańsk, Kielce, Kraków, Szczecin, Wrocław (1st August 2014) Łódż, Opole, Poznań (1st October 2014) Bydgoszcz, Koszalin, Olsztyn, Zielona Góra (1st January 2015) Białystok, Lublin, Rzeszów (1st April 2015) Glzycko, Kalisz, Płock, Siedice (1st July 2016) Pozostałe (1st December 2020) |
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