Yes, those powers applied right from the start. A high frequency is good for melting a city but avoiding too much overspill, whereas a lower frequency goes further and Long Wave goes on forever.

That's why Capital used 557 from Lots Road before the high power Saffron Green 1548 site was ready, and why Laser, Caroline and Spectrum also used 558.

Yet 1548 is one of the border blasters, stretching well in to France. Is this simply because it's clear channel? Lyca 1458 (or whatever it's called these days) is the same.

Saffron Green is highly directional 4-mast array to avoid interference with other high power stations on the same frequencies, e.g. Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool, so it goes a long way.

That was on 236 kHz and was also the frequency that Lord Haw Haw was on as it was Radio Luxembourg studio he used - it was not in fact Germany Calling, but Luxembourg!

With the lower AM frequencies the mast needs to be taller and more expensive to maintain.
But can't see Global keeping the expensive 4 mast Safron Green site with Gold and LBC News going for long, as most London listeners (Gold down to 279k and LBC News down to 254k) will have moved to stereo digital? (but can't find any figures for platform use?).

Apart from Crowbourgh and Orfordness 1296 all UK AM stations used groundwave only, Marnach used Skywave on 1440 to give a powerful signal (with a bit of fading) into the UK for Radio Luxembourg at night, and a German groundwave signal during the day.

So sad to hear of it's demise, but was only being kept alive by the CRI progammes which have found a new London home on Spectrum 558 and DAB. RTL gold hits German service is closing and I expect the German CRI programmes will now be SW and web only?

I think that 208 may continue -

I read that the one mast (1 of 4) which was for the UK beam had been disconnected and the Marnach residents said the interference had stopped. So 208 was to plod on maybe a year or two.

No, all the transmitters there are being demolished as far as I can tell. The article I posted said that the governemtn would buy the site. The first antenna has been demolished already - was not aware until now of which one it was.

The others are coming down and the signal will go off on 31 December 2015.

No - the point is that AM is being discontinued in Germany - the primary target of this transmitter. So there is no point keeping it's people won't be using the waveband any more.

Not sure about that... I haven't got my Pawley copy to hand, but I'm fairly certain that Joyce bradocast from the Norden transmitter which was highly directional on medium wave. After the war the BBC used the same transmitter (with the beam altered I seem to recall) for its European transmissions for quite a while.

Pawley also mentions that Luxembourg was off the air for the war, but that one of the engineers in 1940 had the presence of mind secretly to bury an entire set of spare valves for the station just before the Germans arrived. When they demanded that the station be silenced, he suggested that they simply shot out all the valves, which they duly did. As a result the station was put back on the air when the Allies arrived in just a few hours....

But we digress....

My am radio is obsolete. I can only get three stations: Talk Sport, 5 Live, and Radio 4.

Even those have bad interference, hissing sounds, buzzing, etc. Terrible.

Which frequency was Norden on during the war? I know that Lord Haw Haw used Radio Luxembourg STUDIO because it was mentioned on a documentary about the history of Radio Luxembourg which was on the station the day before it ended in 1992.

I assumed it was the Junglinster transmitter on long wave which did serve the UK during the day that was used for Lord Haw Haw. He could of course still have used the studio in Luxembourg even if it was from Norden I assume.

I remember a mention of the Monaco SW site, which is still in use
http://www.twr.org/news_and_blogs/20...ng-from-monaco

On the subject of low frequencies the 666 kHz transmitter at Pearce's Hill, near Exeter, was heard many miles from its intended recpection area, especially during daylight hours. Many listeners in rural Devon and beyond had to manage without a local service when it was switched off.
DevonAir & Gemini AM/Westward Radio/ Classic Gold & lastly Gold did very well with listener numbers, the last published set of RAJARS (before the transmitters were swithed off) were excellent for an AM service.

I found an old post of mine which described this 4 years ago.
Classic Gold was franchised by GWR to UBC about 2000 to get round competition laws.
GCAP were looking at merging Capital Gold and Life, but when competition laws were reduced about 2007, brought back Classic Gold to merge with Capital Gold as Gold, the South Devon AM transmitters had to go. GCAP could have franchised these to someone else, but for some reason did not, Gold remained on DAB in South Devon.
Likewise some Midlands stations are now under franchise to Orion Media to overcome competition laws

There's a bit about Norden here

http://www.pust-norden.de/dan_ww2_gb.htm

although it simply says 100 kW directed at Central England using - eventually - 658 kHz. Of course in those days where channels were clear and most radios were connected to impressive aerials it would have been possible to receive that frequency in many parts of England both by day and night.

Also mention here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestdeutscher_Rundfunk

As you say, maybe the Luxembourg studios were used but I think Norden was the transmitter....

By the wonders of electronic retrieval systems I've been re-united virtually with my beloved Pawley (BBC Engineering 1922 - 1972) and he says in his section on Post War Reconstruction:

"To improve the coverage of the European Service on medium waves in north-west Germany and Berlin, it was proposed to use the 120-kW Telefunken transmitter located at Osterloog, near Norden. The Germans had erected this station during the war to broadcast the voice of ‘Lord Haw Haw’ for the benefit of British listeners. It relied on propagation over the sea path to the UK and used a directional aerial system with two 492-ft mast radiators and eight 394-ft reflector masts. W. E. C. Varley visited Norden in August 1946 to assess the usefulness of the station for External Services with the aerial system modified to provide maximum gain on a bearing of 110° ETN. It was hired from the Allied Control Commission Germany and on 1 September 1946 it began to radiate German programmes in the European Service on 658 kHz and continued to do so until 15 March 1950 when the channel ceased to be available under the Copenhagen Plan. Norden took over 1295 kHz when Ottringham was taken out of service on 15 February 1953 and it continued to use this channel until 1 April 1962 when the hiring of Norden was terminated because of the need for economy."

From Pawley again, here's the bit about Radio Luxembourg:

"One of the stations that were liberated was Radio Luxembourg, which was almost undamaged, and operated under the control of PWD/SHAEF from September 1944. Asa Briggs notes (quoting F. Barnouw, quoting ‘Yank’ 11.5.45) that an engineer of Radio Luxembourg had encouraged the Germans to shoot holes in the transmitting valves to divert them from more ambitious schemes of destruction. After liberation he dug up a set of valves that he had buried four years ear1ier [34]."

Hitlers Airwaves, Bergmeier and Lotz, Chapter 4, Fighting Great Britain on Medium Wave

"The powerful 165kw Luxembourg transmitter at Junglinster was the most important in terms of boosting English language broadcasts. First used by the Wehrmacht as a black station against France it was taken over by the RRG(German Broadcasting Company) in November 1940 and integrated into its European network."

"Apart from the regional Reichsender Berlin and the national Deutschlandsender regional stations in Germany and all stations in occupied territories were compelled to give priority to DES (Die Deutschland Europasender, German European Service) material fed by landline from Berlin. The English language news for example went out over Calais, Breslau, Cologne, Luxembourg and the shortwave station DXX (8 April 1943) and later over Calais, Luxembourg, Friesland and the shortwave station DXQ (30 August 1944)."

And following the news were Joyce's commentaries, Radio Luxembourg by Philip Nichols

"Joyce was appointed Head commentator in the English editorial department of the German Broadcasting Stations in Europe. Most of his broadcasts were made in Charlotteburg, Berlin and relayed by assorted transmitters all over Europe. On 12 July 1943 his Views on the News followed the official German news and was announced 'Germany Calling. Here are the stations Calais One 514 metres, Calais Two 301.6 metres, Koln 456 metres, Breslau 316 metres, Luxembourg 1293 metres and the shortwave transmitter DXX 41.27 metres."

1440kHz actually used both day and night antennas combined to give 1,200,000 watts for a european transmission of the English Service every night;each mast had a 600kW tx unit individually, during the day the Germany day aerial at 600kW was used, and just before 18.00UK/19.00CET every evening a short switching break would connect up both antennas for the full power, it had a massive pan european reach from the Canaries to Moscow, from the UK to middle east coast and top of Scandinavia to Malta;it got everywhere

Thanks MikeBr, seems Pawley was in error!! Apologies to Jimbo therefore.

That confirms what I thought for over 20 years thank you.

Strange but none of these frequencies are in use from the countries concerned EXCEPT what is now 234 kHz. All the others not even the frequencies are used in France or Germany. Not sure about 7270 k\Hz I'm afraid.

So it will have been the RAdio Luxembourg signal that UK listeners will have heard - at least outside the south and east.

As for 1440 kHz at Marnach, I am aware of the other big station on that frequency, Riadh in Saudi Arabia. Out of curiosity, when Radio Luxembourg did use 1200 kW, How far into Africa did it get? How far into Saudi Arabia did it get? Could it be heard underneath the Riadh transmitter at night at any time? And did it ever get any further east than Moscow and if so, how far? Did it get south of Saudi Arabia at all? Also, did it ever get received in North America before 2200 EST in the middle of winter?! (Remember, the signal went on until 0300 UK time each night!)?

BTW are we absolutely sure that the German oldies station "Die Besten Hits Aller Zeiten" itself is actually closing and when? Also, what is to replace it on 88.9, 93.3 and 97 FM in Luxembourg, and any other frequencies it is on? 92.5 carries the Luxembourgish service and I think the German service may be on this transmitter overnight. 88.9 carries a sister service during the day "Die Besten Hits im Besten Mix". Is this also closing? and what will replace that one?

If this goes that will also be the end of an era.

Thanks

I recall In mid winter Luxembourg's 208 german service offering perfect daytime reception in an HGV driving around Hamburg, some 300 miles from Luxembourg. There was no fading yet I doubt it was a ground wave. Perhaps there was some sort of ionosphere even at midday, enough to scatter the signal back to ground?

The German wiki seems to say RTL radio Besten Hits will continue on FM, Sat and internet, but originate from Germany rather than Luxembourg.

Guess the German CRI programming will continue on SW and internet?, unless they get another German terrestrial relay like the English CRI service has with Spectrum 558 and DAB?

Looks like Crowbrough became available, then Orfordness for 1296. Had a site with no houses nearby and 1296 was still a clear channel at night into Europe. Shame no other international broadcaster was interested in 1296 and 648 from Orfordness when the BBC and one Dutch station stopped using them, (like CRI German to replace 1440 in the evenings?) but the transmission cost must have been high?

With further apologies to jimbo.....

I can see where my confusion lies in this now. I read Pawley as a 13 year old as soon as it was published, knowing then even less about wars than I do now. I'd always taken it to mean that the Germans shot the valves out at Luxembourg in 1940 and that the engineer dug them up four years later. But of course the Germans wouldn't have done that, they'd have wanted to capture the station in working order and use it. They would have shot the valves out in 1944 as they were being driven out, but the engineer had incredible foresight to take action in 1940 to lessen the damage.

So that being the case of course I now understand that Luxembourg was on the air during the war with propaganda, whereas I'd assumed hitherto that it had been silenced in 1940.

A paragraph in here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce

confirms that the broadcasts were made from a whole network of transmitters, and exonerates Pawley in that Joyce broadcast from both Luxembourg studios and German studios.

Sorry for confusing the issue!

Separately, @MikeBr, I'd really like to pick your brains about Crowborough 1962 - 1982 and how the move to Orfordness was done. Can I PM you or are you happy to "talk" in a separate thread..... I have a feeling that you're the person who's going to have the answers.....