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The 'AM death watch' thread... |
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#1201 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Future EU Scottish Republic
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The detection bandwidth for the digital time information is probably only a few tens of Hertz, so transmitter power could be massively scaled back from whatever it's set at now (claimed to be 2 MW). As an example, the actual radiated power from the time signal at Anthorn in Cumbria is just over 15 kW and probably reaches a couple of thousand km on 60 kHz. The antenna array at Allouis, if that's the site that will eventually be used, will be much more efficient than the 'T' at Anthorn but the frequency is higher and therefore more lossy, so probably 30-50 kW EMRP would do it for the time signal.
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#1202 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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Quote:
The detection bandwidth for the digital time information is probably only a few tens of Hertz, so transmitter power could be massively scaled back from whatever it's set at now (claimed to be 2 MW). As an example, the actual radiated power from the time signal at Anthorn in Cumbria is just over 15 kW and probably reaches a couple of thousand km on 60 kHz. The antenna array at Allouis, if that's the site that will eventually be used, will be much more efficient than the 'T' at Anthorn but the frequency is higher and therefore more lossy, so probably 30-50 kW EMRP would do it for the time signal.
As with 252, doubt if there will be any other bids for the site? |
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#1203 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Essex
Posts: 3,858
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Quote:
It's just not the electric bill but also support of transmitters and masts which is getting expensive.
As with 252, doubt if there will be any other bids for the site? |
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#1204 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,183
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There's now a short announcement just after the half hour on 162 advising of the 26 December closure, that listeners should now use FM and a telephone number for any questions.
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#1205 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Grimsby, United Kingdom
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Quote:
There's now a short announcement just after the half hour on 162 advising of the 26 December closure, that listeners should now use FM and a telephone number for any questions.
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#1206 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,183
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I wonder what time they will turn off the transmitter? Will it be midnight on 25th that goes to 26th?
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#1207 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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A poster on the British DX Club list says that it was announced on France Inter today that 162 would close on December 26.
However this article says that the hourly time signal on 162 will continue and that the Government has authorised the National Frequency Agency to conduct tests from January 1. French article, translates quite well into English. http://www.lalettre.pro/Le-signal-ho...er_a12354.html |
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#1208 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Essex
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If the UK and German time sources can be received in France on the lowe 77khz band, might be if no one takes over the audio 162 might fully close.
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#1209 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,569
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I think the issue is the number of clocks out there designed just to receive 162. You'd have to replace or modify them all.
If I read correctly the figure was estimated at 200k in July 2015, Supposed to be compatible (with a few slight changes) to DCF77, not sure if the clocks will also retune to DCF77 if there is no signal on 162? The clock sets for the UK tuned to MSF Anthorn do not seem to retune to DCF77?. |
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#1210 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 107
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The time signal will remain on the 162 kHz
The National Frequency Agency (ANFR) has been commissioned by the Government to maintain the broadcast of the time signal after the cessation of France Inter on Long Wave in late December. This service is widely used in key sectors of French industry to synchronize more than 200,000 clocks. Some public service undertakings, such as SNCF, Enedis or Aéroports de Paris, but also local authorities, use this signal to synchronize clocks in public places, information panels, public lighting or the synchronization of pay and display machines. This radio-synchronization service on 162 kHz provides a time reference of very high accuracy and reliability. It has the advantage of being better received in indoor spaces than other time signals, such as GPS or mobile phone networks. The Government wish to maintain the broadcasting of these time signals after the termination of France Inter's programmes. In this context, it has mandated ANFR to organize the maintenance of this broadcast as of 1 January 2017. ANFR, in close association with TDF, the CFHM (French Chamber of Watchmaking and Microtechniques) , and the main users of the signal, will carry out tests from early 2017 to adjust the broadcast parameters of the time signal. |
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#1211 |
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,446
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LWexit in France and Ireland, FMexit in Norway but with the odd exception our AM infrastructure here in the UK remains broadly intact.
I wonder if 2017 will bring any announcements of larger scale closures here. |
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#1212 |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8,076
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Quote:
If the UK and German time sources can be received in France on the lowe 77khz band, might be if no one takes over the audio 162 might fully close.
Surely DCF77 Frankfurt is the way forward (for all of us !) |
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#1213 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 350
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It's not clear to me whether the time signal service would be from Allouis and if so whether they would need to use such a powerful transmitter. But they have asked whether any other group wishes to use the frequency.
CSA website today (google translate of French) "The frequency 162 kHz belongs to the wide wave range and allows to cover with a single transmitter a large part of the metropolitan territory. However, the quality of listening is not comparable to that of FM: the sound broadcast in large waves is monophonic whereas it is often stereophonic in FM. In order to determine whether the Commission should initiate the procedures necessary to appeal the 162 kHz frequency, it decided to issue a call for expressions of interest for the broadcast of a radio service on the 162 kHz frequency. Responses are expected no later than 16 January 2017." http://www.csa.fr/Espace-juridique/D...tion-d-interet |
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#1214 |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8,076
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Refreshing to hear an official body mandating stereo (even for a speech station like France Inter). When most commercial UK DAB music broadcasters are happy with mono.
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#1215 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Forget reception of MSF60 from Anthorn in France, it's useless enough here in Hampshire !
Surely DCF77 Frankfurt is the way forward (for all of us !) |
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#1216 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
Refreshing to hear an official body mandating stereo (even for a speech station like France Inter). When most commercial UK DAB music broadcasters are happy with mono.
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#1217 |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8,076
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Quote:
Just as Rugby was in much of the UK before Anthorn took over.
I bet Anthorn overall serves fewer people properly, compared with Rugby. I'm sure you get a great signal in Western Scotland, but you might have noticed, not many others live there, it's all about population, and not land mass |
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#1218 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: South Notts (Waltham TV TX)
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Rugby covered the urban conurbations of the south east and midlands very well.
I bet Anthorn overall serves fewer people properly, compared with Rugby. I'm sure you get a great signal in Western Scotland, but you might have noticed, not many others live there, it's all about population, and not land mass |
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#1219 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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Quote:
Forget reception of MSF60 from Anthorn in France, it's useless enough here in Hampshire !
Surely DCF77 Frankfurt is the way forward (for all of us !) All radio controlled clocks now are either MSF60, DSF77, DAB or web NTP. There does not seem to any on 162khz, so if there are just 200k clocks or devices if no radio station takes over 162 and the transmitter closes, power could be initally reduced and notice could be given to replace the existing 162 only controlled clocks or let them freerun?. |
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#1220 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,183
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There's some detailed information on the time signal service here which google translates quite well
http://tvignaud.pagesperso-orange.fr...ouis-heure.htm There's many more pages on the history of Allouis linked from here however the way it's set up on Chrome for translate to work on individual pages you have to click, copy link address and then paste it in another tab. http://tvignaud.pagesperso-orange.fr...fr-allouis.htm and some photos http://tvignaud.pagesperso-orange.fr.../18allouis.htm |
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#1221 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,455
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Quote:
Doing a quick check on the web (also need a new kitchen wall clock) Precision had a multi station travel radio but now discontinied and they just has MSF sets (maybe down to costs and also found a review saying it had a complicated menu) There were clocks being sold in the middle east for 162khz due to its range, but also discontinued.
All radio controlled clocks now are either MSF60, DSF77, DAB or web NTP. There does not seem to any on 162khz, so if there are just 200k clocks or devices if no radio station takes over 162 and the transmitter closes, power could be initally reduced and notice could be given to replace the existing 162 only controlled clocks or let them freerun?. |
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#1222 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Future EU Scottish Republic
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Odd, there is still audio on 162 kHz Allouis. Listening to the morning news just now.
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#1223 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Odd, there is still audio on 162 kHz Allouis. Listening to the morning news just now.
They also took their weekly Tuesday morning maintenance break at 0005 UK time to 055 leading some to assume that they had pulled the plug. Here is the closure announcement on a Piano Crystal set made by Duvivier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuQRUEwEapQ Updated announcement on their website, says FM coverage is 97% of France by territory. https://www.franceinter.fr/info/fin-...r-france-inter |
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#1224 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 73
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Apologies if I've missed mention of this but 1395kHz from Albania seems to have gone. Although used most recently by TWR this was the old Radio Tirana frequency for updates on latest Marxist-Leninist successes.
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#1225 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Grimsby, United Kingdom
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Apologies if I've missed mention of this but 1395kHz from Albania seems to have gone. Although used most recently by TWR this was the old Radio Tirana frequency for updates on latest Marxist-Leninist successes.
TWR Europe has stopped using 1395 kHz Albania relay and the following replacing transmissions have been added via other sites: Polish 2045-2115 mtwtf.s 1467 kHz Roumoules, France 25 degrees Hungarian 2000-2045 Mon-Fri & 2000-2025 Sat/Sun 1548 kHz Grigoriopol, Moldova Romanian 2030-2100 daily 999 kHz Grigoriopol, Moldova. So it's more of a frequency change if anything, and it frees up the Dutch LPAM stations from having to go off air in the evening. I read the 1395 TX was in very bad condition. |
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