I've never understood why he was disliked. Even now you are saying he's a wimp - why? He attacked a Slitheen with a chair when he could have run away, thereby saving Jackie's life. He doesn't even like Jackie. Even when fleeing he turned back to take a picture. Later he faced up to one with a baseball bat. In ep1 he escorted Rose to protect her from an internet psycho. He investigated the wheely-bin.

Mickey as brave as Rose if not more so. Her record is not great (eg she tried to desert the Doctor at the end of ep1, but couldn't because the stairs had collapsed and the Tardis was locked). He doesn't have the wanderlust that she has, but that doesn't make him a wimp.

I suspect a lot of viewers disliked him only because the Doctor did, and now the Doctor has realised his mistake they have come around too. It's got nothing to do with changes in Mickey's character or how he's portrayed, because that hasn't changed. It's just social peer pressure.

Talksport? You might as well get your information out of a cat's arse.

It's just a bit of harmless fun...we will just have to agree to disagree

I liked the slapstick in the episode, the whole bit with the port being passed to the left and ducking into the lift.

I don't understand Rose's mum though. She's asking if Rose will be safe. Given that Mrs Tyler was nearly killed by an eight-foot alien in her own home, you'd think by now she'd realise that being with the Doctor in this new world of alien invasions is probably the safest place to be.

I bet Rose's mum sleeps with a nightlight from now on.

I thought Penelope Wilton was very good as Harriet Jones. I'm still not really liking the character Rose's mum, but it may come with time.

Thought Penelope Wilton was one of the best thing about the last two episodes. I hope there is an opportunity to bring her back in a future story.

I dunno if anyone has noticed this yet, havent read the whole thread through yet, but on the who is doctor who site there is a bad wolf reference at the bottom:

Alex

Someone asked how he could remember the details of every planet in a 500 light year radius but not recognise Harriet's name. Maybe it's because, being a time sensitive race, until the Doctor saved the Earth from the Slitheens, the timeline was still in a state of flux so the Doctor couldn't remember something that had technically not happened yet.

Either that or he's not that interested in Earth politics.

Oh well. With the election campaign going the way it is, who can blame him?

The way Tony smiles he could easily be part of the Slitheen family.

I can't imagine that you watched very many episodes of Buffy or Angel if you believe they took themselves too seriously. There was lots of humour in both shows - just about half of anything Xander or Spike said was funny, and who could forget the Angel episode where he was turned into a puppet !! they did also try to tackle some serious subjects (metaphorically) from time to time, but hey, that's adventurous programme-making for you !

Back to topic, I felt Dr Who was a little bit shaky this week and it may have been to do with the striking difference between the CGI and "suit" Slitheens. It might have been wiser to stick with one or the other. As it was it was a bit distracting.

Next week's episode looks like being a corker ! I reckon it'll exterminate Celebrity Wrestling ! (Sorry, really really sorry... I just couldn't resist it).

oh bless he really cares about Rose doesn't he I mean he would of saved just Rose if she had said it and sod the billions of lives on earth So what is going on there? Can't be his daughter as the the Doctor is Assexual but maybe he loves her and cannot bring himself to say it as he is a Time Lord on difficult dangerous missions and its up to her always to go with him or not well one can dream about the Romance of that cant one.

Fantastic!

Even if last night's wasn't to everybody's taste, it still deserved the lion's share of the audience.

Just a thought on the Rose link... on Have I Got News For You this week there was a DW question about people who had appeared on the show. It showed Peter Purvis (from Blue Peter) as William Hartnell's assistant, the character name Steven TYLER! Maybe this is a link, although I must admit a very small one.....

Also thought I might let you know my theory on Bad Wolf.
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the BBC had an idea that CE would only do one series, maybe HE is the Bad Wolf, perhaps explaining the extreme eccentricness (sorry if that is not a word!) of his character, the real Doctor maybe be David Tennant and that could be how they explain the change?

Just a theory...I admit that I am probably way off the mark, but thought I would join in the fun of the debate!

I'll agree with you on this - I always said he had a very difficult job balancing the needs of the new audience with keeping the returning fans happy.

As for Buffy, Angel etc - keep 'em.

Peter Purvis character was Steven Taylor,
not Tyler.

They're different shows, though. I absolutely adored DW when I was young and a teenager, and as an adult equally loved Buffy and Angel. Each show had the power, through suspension of disbelief, to keep you utterly enthralled. I miss Willow, Xander and the rest of the Scoobies, and was giving up on finding a show that could be as entertaining, crisp and which would challenge the stereotypes of what good TV is. RTD and the gang have given me that type of show in the form of the one show from my childhood that I obsessed about - Fantastic

As to WWIII - I thought it was considerably better than Aliens of London, but seen as a whole story, the two episodes have moved the story on. DW2005 is clearly less about the rather complex DW world of the novels, and more concerned with the repercusions on Rose of life in the TARDIS.

Complaints about the difference between the CGI and the suit Slitheen are valid, but a little bit ungracious. After all, I remember being terrified by the Creature from the Pit in Tom Baker's time, even though it was green bubblewrap!
We know it's not real, but the ride is much more fun if we pretend it is - that's what the kids do after all!

I simply do not like the character. I thought his acting was poor in the first episode, although I think he's improved a liittle with time and I've stated as much.

His character had a point of helping to show why Rose would go off travelling with the Doctor in the first place, i.e. she had nothing much to stick around for.

You obviously like the character, and that's great. I do not.

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as the next person.
And please don't tell me why I would or would not dislike someone - I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind.

There are obviously elements to the show which are designed to appeal to a wide-ranging audience, but as the saying goes, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Each to their own and all that.
Last edited by DenWatts : 24-04-2005 at 15:01

PMSL

I could just see him in cabinet meetings.

I concur with you on this one Mr Watts. I pay homage to you with the gift of the air from my lungs.

Each to their own. There are going to be episodes some will like and not others and vice versa. I was so chuffed when on my way out last night I heard some kids on the train saying to their parents that they were rushing back to watch Who..quite a buzz. I have embraced the return of the series and on the whole have thoroughly enjoyed it thus far but a bit of criticism and healthy debate has never hurt any successful programme.

Reason why Aliens of London and World War Three didn't strike the same chord with me as it did for others was that it was very poorly directed, which was a shame as I really liked the premise of the story and thought the script had great promise. The last two episodes just didn't have the pace and flow as the previous ones did but hey that is just my humble opinion and I appreciate I may be in the minority.

Have to say I am really looking forward to next weeks.

I'm enjoying the series a lot. I can remember as a 6-12 year old, being bored rigid by some of the Troughton/Pertwee episodes ( though I enjoy them now). I can't imagine I would be bored by the 2005 series if I was that age now and it has plenty to enjoy as an adult too. Great performance by Penelope Wilton this week.

The over-the-top comedy with Mickey is a hark back to (rather annoying) Roy Castle in the first feature film? I like the Mickey character and hope he is involved more in future.

Some things that have not worked for me:

In episode one, Rose laughing as she runs across the bridge, just minutes after finding out her boyfriend is probably dead!

Can't understand why they used those CGI running shots in the latest story. They didn't match the live action aliens at all in shape, colour or movement.

I didn't like Rose's mother slapping the Doctor. Doesn't send a good message to kids.

They really need the services of someone who is half competent with a stills camera and Photoshop! The historical photos of the Doctor in episode one and used here:

http://www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/visualdata.shtml

are very badly done. On a more technical note, I never saw a photo from the 1860's taken with a wide angle lens (Charles Dickens pic)! They didn't exist. Nor would it have been possible to photograph people walking, in available light, at night LOL. Exposure times then, even in daylight, were measured in minutes not seconds. Small things, but they add up.

I'm not that bothered about CE leaving. He has been OK but the constant grinning is too much. But the series has always been about much more than the person who plays the Doctor -- obviously
Last edited by rgs_uk : 24-04-2005 at 15:22

I too have heard people say they must get home to see the next episode - I think it's great that the new series is exciting people so much - not only are they watching, they're not afraid to say they are.

I agree with you on the direction - very poor. After the tension and snappiness of the earlier episodes, AOL and WW3 left me disappointed. However, I can see that they would have appealed to many people, which is why I'm glad this new series works on so many levels.

I believe Keith Boak (sp?) has directed three episodes? I only hope that he does a better job next time. Anyone know what the other is?

Really looking forward to Dalek - but I have to admit that I was after seeing AOL.

The other one was 'Rose', so they've all been shown now.

It was actually Lee Purvis from The Star, a well respected source of information, who gave out that figure.

That is an extremely patronising assumption.

Who the hell are you to tell people why other people have been critical of the last two episodes?
Do you really think you are able to put words into other people's mouths?

I gave my reasons earlier in the thread, and I thought they didn't need somebody else to be patronising and translate them into a diffeent meaning on my behalf.

You have your opinion, let other people have theirs and accept that their reasons don't need to be excused and explained away and undermined by yourself to others.

I think some people are being far too defensive of Doctor Who, and do not accept criticism of the show very well.
I didn't think this show would attract the same kind of blind worship as the Big Brother forum.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 24-04-2005 at 16:32