No keep it the same. It's more interesting having half public and half judges votes. I also like the dance off. Why is it some people keep wanting to change things that work well. If you really don't like it don't watch it.
Why not change things?
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Originally Posted by StrictlyEastend:
“I don't agree, it is fine for me at the moment. I fear that a shake up could damage the show.
”
“I don't agree, it is fine for me at the moment. I fear that a shake up could damage the show.
”
I would agree - this is not really as big an issue as some would like to make out (outside of the Twitterari, the newspapers quoting the Twitterarti, the newspaper comments section and a few online forums/blogs (where those who have a gripe will tend to post, whilst those who are happy tend to remain quiet).
He who shouts loudest isn’t always the most knowledgeable
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“He who shouts loudest isn’t always the most knowledgeable”
“He who shouts loudest isn’t always the most knowledgeable”
That's Terry's capital letters for you
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“And?
I recall that, prior to the DO being introduced, at least one contender went whilst a duffer/comdey contestant remained. And I thought that the DO was introduced to try to negate that happening (i.e. give any bottom-placed contender a second bite). Agreed it has not always worked out, especially when TWO contenders are in the DO by way of the lack of public votes. But it catches the single contender scenario.
As for Pixie, well that will simply rumble on and on and on. As will Helen George. It's happened. Let's move on.”
“And?
I recall that, prior to the DO being introduced, at least one contender went whilst a duffer/comdey contestant remained. And I thought that the DO was introduced to try to negate that happening (i.e. give any bottom-placed contender a second bite). Agreed it has not always worked out, especially when TWO contenders are in the DO by way of the lack of public votes. But it catches the single contender scenario.
As for Pixie, well that will simply rumble on and on and on. As will Helen George. It's happened. Let's move on.”
In Series 9, before the dance-off was re-introduced, every single contestant eliminated was either bottom of the leaderboard or second from bottom when they went out. Whyever it was reintroduced, it was nothing to do with giving any of the contenders a second bite at the cherry - they didn't need one.
All these people saying The X Factor died due to constant changes - I'd say it died more because every week saw a new SCANDAL! or FIX! claim (regardless of merit) and people tired of it. If the tabloid and middlebrow start latching on to doing that with Strictly re the dance off as they have been doing this series AND former pros keep on saying the show is rigged AND they keep on flagrantly ignoring their own rules like they did with Jamelia vs Peter, then good luck to it...
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“So we go back to how it was prior to the dance-off being introduced, with the risk that a more competent dancer or three will be voted off in favour of a comedy/joke/less-able dancer.”
“So we go back to how it was prior to the dance-off being introduced, with the risk that a more competent dancer or three will be voted off in favour of a comedy/joke/less-able dancer.”
Yes please. It worked well Series 1-4 and Series 8 (for me, anyway). Arguably the most competent female dancer (Kara) won a series in which no dance-off was in place.
Series 8 and 9 had no dance-off, and neither series is notable for eliminating contenders way before their time (someone may have to fill me in on series 1-4). Sure, series 8 was notable for how long Ann Widdecombe stayed in, but the public vote buoyed her way above the bottom two right up until she was eliminated, so it's not like having a dance-off would have got rid of her earlier (in fact, it would've given people more incentive to vote knowing she'd be doomed otherwise).
Perplexed as to what pre-dance-off universe with contenders dropping left, right and centre everyone else seems to remember.
The dance-off is a nice idea in theory for storylining/dramatic purposes (it'd be very good for people to make comebacks, or people just to go out and give it their all) but it very rarely adds much dramatic interest. Because we've already had scores from the judges, you can usually tell which way it'll go beforehand.
Perplexed as to what pre-dance-off universe with contenders dropping left, right and centre everyone else seems to remember.
The dance-off is a nice idea in theory for storylining/dramatic purposes (it'd be very good for people to make comebacks, or people just to go out and give it their all) but it very rarely adds much dramatic interest. Because we've already had scores from the judges, you can usually tell which way it'll go beforehand.
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“In Series 9, before the dance-off was re-introduced, every single contestant eliminated was either bottom of the leaderboard or second from bottom when they went out. Whyever it was reintroduced, it was nothing to do with giving any of the contenders a second bite at the cherry - they didn't need one.
All these people saying The X Factor died due to constant changes - I'd say it died more because every week saw a new SCANDAL! or FIX! claim (regardless of merit) and people tired of it. If the tabloid and middlebrow start latching on to doing that with Strictly re the dance off as they have been doing this series AND former pros keep on saying the show is rigged AND they keep on flagrantly ignoring their own rules like they did with Jamelia vs Peter, then good luck to it...”
“In Series 9, before the dance-off was re-introduced, every single contestant eliminated was either bottom of the leaderboard or second from bottom when they went out. Whyever it was reintroduced, it was nothing to do with giving any of the contenders a second bite at the cherry - they didn't need one.
All these people saying The X Factor died due to constant changes - I'd say it died more because every week saw a new SCANDAL! or FIX! claim (regardless of merit) and people tired of it. If the tabloid and middlebrow start latching on to doing that with Strictly re the dance off as they have been doing this series AND former pros keep on saying the show is rigged AND they keep on flagrantly ignoring their own rules like they did with Jamelia vs Peter, then good luck to it...”
SCD has no fix, and the judges have been fair, " All" evidence supports that, please do not believe tabloids who have broken the law on hacking.
Originally Posted by mad_madge_morri:
“The program needs shaking up a bit, it seemed a bit flat this year.
Let's keep the judges but just for their opinions, giving them no say who should stay or who should go and simply eliminate the couple who score the least public votes.”
“The program needs shaking up a bit, it seemed a bit flat this year.
Let's keep the judges but just for their opinions, giving them no say who should stay or who should go and simply eliminate the couple who score the least public votes.”
How could that improve things?
Your memory is short - you have forgotten Gabbygate, the too-early exits of DJ Spoony, Jimmy Mistry, Martina Hinggis and several very worthy contestants.
So you want a Strictly made up of publicly adored characters like Russell Grant, John Sergeant, Ann Widdicombe, so that they could imitate the useless Chris Parker and get to the Final on the basis of publicity alone?
Well, others don't and I have a slight suspicion "we others" might just be in the majority. Otherwise, just rename the competition Strictly Bonkers, cut out the expensive dancing pros and just have Generation Game type slapstick. That would entertain the kiddies a lot. but it wouldn't beat X Factor.
As long as X FActor is around, the dancing stays.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“I'm saying nothing ....
”
“I'm saying nothing ....
”
but at least you're saying nothing in wee letters < thumbup >
Originally Posted by A.D.P:
“SCD has no fix, and the judges have been fair, " All" evidence supports that, please do not believe tabloids who have broken the law on hacking.”
“SCD has no fix, and the judges have been fair, " All" evidence supports that, please do not believe tabloids who have broken the law on hacking.”
I didn't say it *is* fixed, but if that becomes the public perception (and with X Factor soon on the way out, there'll be no chance for "well at least it's better than ol' FIX FACTOR" defences) then they're in trouble. This is why they got rid of the dance-off the first time they ditched it, because slowly over the course of Series 5 to 7 the public got more and more fractious and fed up with the "judges favourites" and them constantly saving them until it became untenable for them to continue with the dance-off and they had to ditch it before the series was even over. We're not there again, but this could be the start of us getting there...
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I didn't say it *is* fixed, but if that becomes the public perception (and with X Factor soon on the way out, there'll be no chance for "well at least it's better than ol' FIX FACTOR" defences) then they're in trouble. This is why they got rid of the dance-off the first time they ditched it, because slowly over the course of Series 5 to 7 the public got more and more fractious and fed up with the "judges favourites" and them constantly saving them it became untenable for them to continue with the dance-off and they had to ditch it before the series was even over. We're not there again, but this could be the start of us getting there...”
“I didn't say it *is* fixed, but if that becomes the public perception (and with X Factor soon on the way out, there'll be no chance for "well at least it's better than ol' FIX FACTOR" defences) then they're in trouble. This is why they got rid of the dance-off the first time they ditched it, because slowly over the course of Series 5 to 7 the public got more and more fractious and fed up with the "judges favourites" and them constantly saving them it became untenable for them to continue with the dance-off and they had to ditch it before the series was even over. We're not there again, but this could be the start of us getting there...”
Yes, I think they'll have to get rid of the dance off for next year. Plus whoever wins on Saturday, people will say it was always fixed for them to win and the papers will run with it all they can (it's not hard to write it all now: Jay - ringer; Georgia - ringer; Katie - year of Anton; Kellie - Kevin is producers' favourite/Eastenders = BBC employee). I think Ola's interviews at the time of Jameliagate (though I don't think Ola ever intended any slight at Peter) has created a head of steam that they've not exactly had before, added to the slump in XF putting all the interest on Strictly and the BBC under government pressure. I can't see how they make the fix claims go away other than get rid of the dance off.
(Or have complete fairness in who is allowed to do the show in the first place, and who gets what songs and costumes, but I don't know how complete fairness could ever really be achieved.)
So the dance off goes, and the first time that someone's favourite fails to win sufficient votes and gets booted, the cries of "fix" will happen again.
The truth seems to be that it's all hunky-dory when a favourite couple goes through or wins, but when they don't people quickly change their opinion and call it a fix.
The truth seems to be that it's all hunky-dory when a favourite couple goes through or wins, but when they don't people quickly change their opinion and call it a fix.
The dance off is just a filler to allow them the pretence of a "Sunday" show
The reason it was introduced was to prevent any "shock" eliminations when a contender came bottom of the vote and went earlier than they should have. However - I don't think any real potential winners were ever kicked out because there was no dance off there to save them - and in 13 series - only one comedy contestant/ duffer has actually made the final - and that was Chris Parker in series 1. Yes Julian Clary got there in season 2 but he did have a bit of a journey and produced a beautiful show dance with Erin.
IMHO, it's allowed the judges to save unpopular judges pets (eg Lisa Snowdon), and produce dubious evictions like the time they booted Gabby Logan out over the wimpy Penny Lancaster - because Rod Stewart was down to sing on the show the next week, and the very first dance off was slotted in simply to get judges/ producers pet Emma Bunton through to the semi final.
If a couple is popular enough - they can get to the final without going anywhere near the dance off - it was clear that the producers wanted Chris and Ola out - but the public kept them out of the judges clutches the whole series, and voted them for the win. Likewise duffers/ comedy contestants get kept in past their sell by date because they pick up an element of a sympathy vote when they get scathing comments/ low marks - you'd think the judges (particularly Craig) would have got that after almost 13 years?
I think now that they have come out and said firmly that they are to judge the dance off only on what happens in the DO, and not refer to past glories, or future potential - it's a lot fairer, and in the weeks when they have a choice of dances - the couples should be asked to do their lowest scored dance - which would have prevented an "Austinwasrobbed" situation - Brendan admitted that he and Lisa had concentrated on the ballroom dance that week - and hardly did anything to the Latin so in the dance off they had a huge advantage over Erin and Austin who had worked on both dances equally!
Jameliagate week apart - this year I think the judges HAVE chosen correctly in the dance offs, but it's a shame that they chose to make idiots of themselves that particular week with Ola's fix allegations coming the week that they couldn't have made it more clear that they were fixing to keep Peter in!
The reason it was introduced was to prevent any "shock" eliminations when a contender came bottom of the vote and went earlier than they should have. However - I don't think any real potential winners were ever kicked out because there was no dance off there to save them - and in 13 series - only one comedy contestant/ duffer has actually made the final - and that was Chris Parker in series 1. Yes Julian Clary got there in season 2 but he did have a bit of a journey and produced a beautiful show dance with Erin.
IMHO, it's allowed the judges to save unpopular judges pets (eg Lisa Snowdon), and produce dubious evictions like the time they booted Gabby Logan out over the wimpy Penny Lancaster - because Rod Stewart was down to sing on the show the next week, and the very first dance off was slotted in simply to get judges/ producers pet Emma Bunton through to the semi final.
If a couple is popular enough - they can get to the final without going anywhere near the dance off - it was clear that the producers wanted Chris and Ola out - but the public kept them out of the judges clutches the whole series, and voted them for the win. Likewise duffers/ comedy contestants get kept in past their sell by date because they pick up an element of a sympathy vote when they get scathing comments/ low marks - you'd think the judges (particularly Craig) would have got that after almost 13 years?
I think now that they have come out and said firmly that they are to judge the dance off only on what happens in the DO, and not refer to past glories, or future potential - it's a lot fairer, and in the weeks when they have a choice of dances - the couples should be asked to do their lowest scored dance - which would have prevented an "Austinwasrobbed" situation - Brendan admitted that he and Lisa had concentrated on the ballroom dance that week - and hardly did anything to the Latin so in the dance off they had a huge advantage over Erin and Austin who had worked on both dances equally!
Jameliagate week apart - this year I think the judges HAVE chosen correctly in the dance offs, but it's a shame that they chose to make idiots of themselves that particular week with Ola's fix allegations coming the week that they couldn't have made it more clear that they were fixing to keep Peter in!
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“The dance off is just a filler to allow them the pretence of a "Sunday" show
The reason it was introduced was to prevent any "shock" eliminations when a contender came bottom of the vote and went earlier than they should have. However - I don't think any real potential winners were ever kicked out because there was no dance off there to save them - and in 13 series - only one comedy contestant/ duffer has actually made the final - and that was Chris Parker in series 1. Yes Julian Clary got there in season 2 but he did have a bit of a journey and produced a beautiful show dance with Erin.
IMHO, it's allowed the judges to save unpopular judges pets (eg Lisa Snowdon), and produce dubious evictions like the time they booted Gabby Logan out over the wimpy Penny Lancaster - because Rod Stewart was down to sing on the show the next week, and the very first dance off was slotted in simply to get judges/ producers pet Emma Bunton through to the semi final.
If a couple is popular enough - they can get to the final without going anywhere near the dance off - it was clear that the producers wanted Chris and Ola out - but the public kept them out of the judges clutches the whole series, and voted them for the win. Likewise duffers/ comedy contestants get kept in past their sell by date because they pick up an element of a sympathy vote when they get scathing comments/ low marks - you'd think the judges (particularly Craig) would have got that after almost 13 years?
I think now that they have come out and said firmly that they are to judge the dance off only on what happens in the DO, and not refer to past glories, or future potential - it's a lot fairer, and in the weeks when they have a choice of dances - the couples should be asked to do their lowest scored dance - which would have prevented an "Austinwasrobbed" situation - Brendan admitted that he and Lisa had concentrated on the ballroom dance that week - and hardly did anything to the Latin so in the dance off they had a huge advantage over Erin and Austin who had worked on both dances equally!
Jameliagate week apart - this year I think the judges HAVE chosen correctly in the dance offs, but it's a shame that they chose to make idiots of themselves that particular week with Ola's fix allegations coming the week that they couldn't have made it more clear that they were fixing to keep Peter in!”
“The dance off is just a filler to allow them the pretence of a "Sunday" show
The reason it was introduced was to prevent any "shock" eliminations when a contender came bottom of the vote and went earlier than they should have. However - I don't think any real potential winners were ever kicked out because there was no dance off there to save them - and in 13 series - only one comedy contestant/ duffer has actually made the final - and that was Chris Parker in series 1. Yes Julian Clary got there in season 2 but he did have a bit of a journey and produced a beautiful show dance with Erin.
IMHO, it's allowed the judges to save unpopular judges pets (eg Lisa Snowdon), and produce dubious evictions like the time they booted Gabby Logan out over the wimpy Penny Lancaster - because Rod Stewart was down to sing on the show the next week, and the very first dance off was slotted in simply to get judges/ producers pet Emma Bunton through to the semi final.
If a couple is popular enough - they can get to the final without going anywhere near the dance off - it was clear that the producers wanted Chris and Ola out - but the public kept them out of the judges clutches the whole series, and voted them for the win. Likewise duffers/ comedy contestants get kept in past their sell by date because they pick up an element of a sympathy vote when they get scathing comments/ low marks - you'd think the judges (particularly Craig) would have got that after almost 13 years?
I think now that they have come out and said firmly that they are to judge the dance off only on what happens in the DO, and not refer to past glories, or future potential - it's a lot fairer, and in the weeks when they have a choice of dances - the couples should be asked to do their lowest scored dance - which would have prevented an "Austinwasrobbed" situation - Brendan admitted that he and Lisa had concentrated on the ballroom dance that week - and hardly did anything to the Latin so in the dance off they had a huge advantage over Erin and Austin who had worked on both dances equally!
Jameliagate week apart - this year I think the judges HAVE chosen correctly in the dance offs, but it's a shame that they chose to make idiots of themselves that particular week with Ola's fix allegations coming the week that they couldn't have made it more clear that they were fixing to keep Peter in!”
There is no " pretence" on a Sunday show, we have all known for years it's recorded on Saturday, hence the popular spookier thread, what would the Sunday show sound like if they said tonight or last night, in fact they try to only say Saturday night.
The costs are prohibitive for a Sunday show and to get back the celebrities and dancers on their only day off, would be stupid, Aldo cameramen, producers, judges ( some go to the USA son Sunday) hair wardrobe, make up, lighting, sound etc etc, it's a non starter.
The results can't go out live as XF is on, and also there are set changes prop changes, covered by VTs in the live show, and guest performers are recorders earlier like Kylie at 6 pm last week..
The results show gets 10 million viewers, so it does well is popular, there is no pretence, note ITT on Tuesday's is recorded on Monday is that a pretence? The Christmas show was recorded a while back and not live on Christmas Day, is that a pretence?
There has been NO FIX at all this or any series, some are too gullible to tabloid press reports. Yes there are loyal supporters of each celebrity and their upset when they go. But this " proven untrue" fix claim is damaging the reputations of fine performers and will put off good celebrities performing next year, which is the tabloids intend to damage SCD and therefore damage the BBC, every thread opened on this subject here plays into the newspapers campaign, pity a few can't actually see that.
I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.
A Devil's Advocate take on the show's perceived popularity
High viewing numbers does not necessarily mean that everyone is deliriously happy with the show. Lots of DSers (legitimately) criticise the VTs, Tess/Zoe's sacharin uber-jolly style, wardrobe, the music, the Sunday 'live' show cojones, etc etc
I doubt (m)any will turn off despite the things that irritate us so high viewing figures does not automatically mean everything is perfect.
You get lots of rubber neckers at motorway accidents but it doesn't mean everyone likes them does it?
High viewing numbers does not necessarily mean that everyone is deliriously happy with the show. Lots of DSers (legitimately) criticise the VTs, Tess/Zoe's sacharin uber-jolly style, wardrobe, the music, the Sunday 'live' show cojones, etc etc
I doubt (m)any will turn off despite the things that irritate us so high viewing figures does not automatically mean everything is perfect.
You get lots of rubber neckers at motorway accidents but it doesn't mean everyone likes them does it?
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
It's only manipulation if there is intent to manipulate. There is no evidence for that. Otherwise it's simply (bad) luck of the draw.
I agree that the producers should draw back from musical choices which seem to be totally inappropriate for the dance (but maybe intended to offer the younger viewer some connection with "modern" music).
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“It's only manipulation if there is intent to manipulate. There is no evidence for that. Otherwise it's simply (bad) luck of the draw.
I agree that the producers should draw back from musical choices which seem to be totally inappropriate for the dance (but maybe intended to offer the younger viewer some connection with "modern" music).”
“It's only manipulation if there is intent to manipulate. There is no evidence for that. Otherwise it's simply (bad) luck of the draw.
I agree that the producers should draw back from musical choices which seem to be totally inappropriate for the dance (but maybe intended to offer the younger viewer some connection with "modern" music).”
I doubt many of the younger viewers watch Strictly because TOTP isn't available
Originally Posted by MayD:
“I doubt many of the younger viewers watch Strictly because TOTP isn't available”
“I doubt many of the younger viewers watch Strictly because TOTP isn't available
”
"But if Strictly dances have music that is relevant to them, then they are more likely to watch" seems to be the adage from the producers. It surely can't be because the producers believe that the music in question actually suits the dance.
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
Duplicate post
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
“I'm not bothered about the dance off staying or going. What I think does need to stop is the pros having little say over music or themeing. That's the biggest manipulation imo. At least if we know they choose everything it's fair. It must be frustrating if the pro goes out on a week where they were given awful music or themeing.
The show always worked fine with the pro dancers choosing everything. Don't see why it couldn't still.”
If they were going to change one thing this is the one I would vote for. The pros are just that- professional dancers - so they have a deep understanding of what music works and what doesn't. They should make that decision.
I'm ok with the DO as long as the judges aren't blatantly biased the way they were with Jamelia and Peter.
Perhaps less props too? If we are having a spring clean?
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