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  • Strictly Come Dancing
How does Jay rank in the annals of Strictly champions?
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Slayer2012
20-12-2015
Here are the stats regarding where Jay places among the champions:

1 Alesha Dixon Series 5 36.5
2 Kara Tointon Series 8 35.7
=3 Harry Judd Series 9 35.6
=3 Abbey Clancy Series 11 35.6
5 Caroline Flack Series 12 35.1
6 Tom Chambers Series 6 34.5
7 Jay McGuiness Series 13 34.0
8 Jill Halfpenny Series 2 33.7
=9 Louis Smith Series 10 33.5
=9 Mark Ramprakash Series 4 33.5
11 Natasha Kaplinsky Series 1 33.0
12 Darren Gough Series 3 31.2
13 Chris Hollins Series 7 30.9

Only Harry Judd of the male celebrity champions figures in the top 5 for score average, with 4 of the bottom 5 placings made of male celebrity champions, which would indicate more male celebrity champions tend to win on personality and charisma over dance ability than female celebrities.
LaughingSock
20-12-2015
After the final, I'm not sure I can trust this year's scores, really. (Actually, I'd been thinking this earlier than that, but the final clinched it.)
edy10
20-12-2015
I personally think that in terms of technical ability he is the best male winner ever. I am not taking these averages seriously because some of those winners (including my Lovely Abbey ) were overmarked.
shrinkingviolet
20-12-2015
I think Jay had memorable dances but isn't a particularly memorable dancer a lot of the time...or won't be for me when I start looking back on past winners. I think overall he'll be remembered as the best male winner who did the defining version of the jive for the show in future (rip Jill's jive) but I dont think he will be named first in many people's list of favourite winners overall.

I may be completely wrong on that, but idk...that's how I think I see it.
roseblue1
20-12-2015
I think he is most probably the best male ever...yes he made mistakes but when he got it right he was brilliant.
amelia_lee
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by edy10:
“I personally think that in terms of technical ability he is the best male winner ever. I am not taking these averages seriously because some of those winners (including my Lovely Abbey ) were overmarked.”

BIB, I think potential wise he was, but for me he seemed like untapped talent.
Except one stand out dance with his jive and a great tango, he could have been really extraordinary.
He had amazing feet, great rhythm and fluid and lyrical arms, but for me it never produced the kind of dances he had the ability to. Having a look at Harry on the Christmas special, he outstrips his ballroom easily, even having years off.
cantos
20-12-2015
I think Jay actually averaged less than Georgia, Kellie and Helen.
TerryM22
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by Slayer2012:
“Here are the stats regarding where Jay places among the champions:

1 Alesha Dixon Series 5 36.5
2 Kara Tointon Series 8 35.7
=3 Harry Judd Series 9 35.6
=3 Abbey Clancy Series 11 35.6
5 Caroline Flack Series 12 35.1
6 Tom Chambers Series 6 34.5
7 Jay McGuiness Series 13 34.0
8 Jill Halfpenny Series 2 33.7
=9 Louis Smith Series 10 33.5
=9 Mark Ramprakash Series 4 33.5
11 Natasha Kaplinsky Series 1 33.0
12 Darren Gough Series 3 31.2
13 Chris Hollins Series 7 30.9

Only Harry Judd of the male celebrity champions figures in the top 5 for score average, with 4 of the bottom 5 placings made of male celebrity champions, which would indicate more male celebrity champions tend to win on personality and charisma over dance ability than female celebrities.”



In the annuls of Strictly Champions I don't think that he is up there with the best of them.
j4Rose
20-12-2015
I wasn't a fan of his dancing, but it's ridiculous that people like Tom, Abbey and Caroline are above him. It shows how meaningless the scores are.
cantos
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by edy10:
“I personally think that in terms of technical ability he is the best male winner ever. I am not taking these averages seriously because some of those winners (including my Lovely Abbey ) were overmarked.”

Harry Judd was miles better than Jay and considering Mark Ramprakash was a sportsman and with no dance training I would list him above Jay as well.
Monkseal
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by cantos:
“I think Jay actually averaged less than Georgia, Kellie and Helen.”

His average was the same as Kellie's by the end and higher than Georgia and Helen's
Sabbatical
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by amelia_lee:
“BIB, I think potential wise he was, but for me he seemed like untapped talent.
Except one stand out dance with his jive and a great tango, he could have been really extraordinary.
He had amazing feet, great rhythm and fluid and lyrical arms, but for me it never produced the kind of dances he had the ability to. Having a look at Harry on the Christmas special, he outstrips his ballroom easily, even having years off.”

Sort of between two camps here. Personally, my favourite winner so far. I found him massively engaging. But also have the untapped potential feeling - there was more that didn't quite come out. Would be nice to think we might see the extra in whatever he does next.

Hands down the most endearing winner ever, though, imo.
cantos
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“I wasn't a fan of his dancing, but it's ridiculous that people like Tom, Abbey and Caroline are above him. It shows how meaningless the scores are.”

Seriously? or is this a wind up.
catspaw
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“After the final, I'm not sure I can trust this year's scores, really. (Actually, I'd been thinking this earlier than that, but the final clinched it.)”


Same here. I think the marks have been bizarre, almost random, in other years as well but this year even more so. The final marks were a farce as far as I'm concerned. A table of average overall scores is fine, but I'm not sure they mean much when it comes to whom people find the most memorable. Not for this voter anyway.
Skyrah
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by shrinkingviolet:
“I think Jay had memorable dances but isn't a particularly memorable dancer a lot of the time...or won't be for me when I start looking back on past winners. I think overall he'll be remembered as the best male winner who did the defining version of the jive for the show in future (rip Jill's jive) but I dont think he will be named first in many people's list of favourite winners overall.

I may be completely wrong on that, but idk...that's how I think I see it.”

Jay only had one memorable dance, maybe two if you count the Charleston too. The rest were were mediocre at best.
j4Rose
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by cantos:
“Seriously? or is this a wind up.”

What? I think his routines were often dull, but he's certainly a better dancer than those three.
Frank Mag
20-12-2015
I think he ranks in the top 2 male winners Harry Judd being the other as for all time no,Kara for me.
cantos
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by Skyrah:
“Jay only had one memorable dance, maybe two if you count the Charleston too. The rest were were mediocre at best.”

I think the Jive was the only stand out dance for me of his.

However this year my week on week favourite dance was spread over more contestants than normal, Jay, Helen,Peter,Anita, Kellie, Katie and Georgia all performed dances that I rated the best on a given week.
LaughingSock
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by Skyrah:
“Jay only had one memorable dance, maybe two if you count the Charleston too. The rest were were mediocre at best.”

Jive, rumba, tango, Charleston... taken from the final, I'd add the paso to that as well.
shrinkingviolet
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by Skyrah:
“Jay only had one memorable dance, maybe two if you count the Charleston too. The rest were were mediocre at best.”

Jive, tango and Charleston are definitely potentially memorable. The Charleston would've been a definite 40 if not for the mistake.
davegold
20-12-2015
Jay had a lot of artistic technique but to my eye he never fully mastered ballroom technique, particularly in hold. Darcy and Bruno both said that his artistic use of hands was the best seen from a male celeb and it seemed that way to me.

I think it is easier for women to get higher marks on Strictly than men (the women may have better, technically correct footwork, but lots of decent male celebs struggle with leading and hold). Scoring statistics prove that point for me, rather than proving the top men were poor because they scored less. For example, I liked Katie but I don't think she could have got to the semi-final if she had been a male celeb that had to lead.
Fred.
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“Jive, rumba, tango, Charleston... taken from the final, I'd add the paso to that as well.”

I'd add the first Waltz too - very early on, but good.

(Not counting the judges' marking as in this Series it's been odd - not fixed, just odd.)

But I do think Strictly is harder for the men.

I really liked Georgia, and her later ballroom was lovely. But when she went wrong, Giovanni could not only whip her round and back into position, but also keep her going for a second or two while she got her bearings. (All credit to Georgia to pick up the dance so well afterwards and Giovanni for quick thinking.)

When Jay went wrong there was nothing Aliona could do. In fact Aliona said on the first ITT she bruised her arm trying to shift Jay in early training. When Jay went wrong in the FT, he really had to lead as Aliona couldn't even start to put him back into position

Then men generally have to lead - or give the impression of leading. In the various 'athons' the male Celebrities have to lead in reality.

You can see male Pros sometimes pushing their celebrity into position in ballroom.

Then male Celebrities also need to do at least some lifts to impress - not only need strength, but also balance and technique.

Though women - to quote Ginger Rodgers - have to dance it all backwards and in high heels.

Remember in the early years people often said only men would win as women would be more likely to vote.

This hasn't happened as there's been as many female as male winners till today - so women have voted for all types - and many men do vote.

Think in Jay's case the public voted for his dancing over the whole series. At his best in the dances above - he was better than anyone else in this series. These dances stand watching again.

Georgia's Charleston and Helen's Waltz were in the same league.

At his very best - Jay's jive - better than anyone ever in Strictly.

Even better than Jill's Jive and Alesha's CCC - which were my previous favourites.
jlighthi
20-12-2015
I think Helen, Georgia and Kellie were better than Jay
Fudd
20-12-2015
Originally Posted by jlighthi:
“I think Helen, Georgia and Kellie were better than Jay”

I'd say Georgia was stronger at Ballroom that Jay but the latter was better at Latin. I wouldn't agree with either Kellie or Helen.

In terms of winner I think it's ridiculous he's below Caroline, Abbey and Tom in terms of judges marks. I'd say he's probably on a par with Harry - like Georgia, Harry was stronger in Ballroom but Jay has the upper hand in Latin.
CatO9Tales
20-12-2015
Quote:
“Jay had a lot of artistic technique but to my eye he never fully mastered ballroom technique, particularly in hold. Darcy and Bruno both said that his artistic use of hands was the best seen from a male celeb and it seemed that way to me. ”

I pretty much agree with this.

Jay is a fabulous, fabulous dancer but ballroom is not his "A" game, which is why he split the judges. Darcey and Bruno loved him, Len was ambivalent because he wants to see the ballroom factor and Craig wants "performance" (eeugh!)

I'm with Darcey and Bruno - and I'd have voted for Jay until the cows came home ....
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