Their ideas seem absolute turkeys

Yes. I don't think either is worth it sadly.

They're definitely not the best, but I wouldn't say they were the worst either; Alex and Helene would easily take the cake on that count. And even if we're just talking final twos, I'd say that Stella and Chris were also worse.

Luisa v Leah seemed the last big occasion final

I don't know about worst finalists, but definitely worst winner this show has had (and before any of you mention Mark Wright, he was better than Joseph by a country mile).

Literally, Joseph had:
poor managerial skills (showcased by how he picked and utilised his team)
a bland company logo
a god-awful laughably poor advert
a subpar pitch

And yet, Lord Sugar still hired him anyway, just because both he and clearly Karen liked him as a person more than they did Vana. So basically Vana may as well not have bothered because she was doomed all along.

Yeah that was the last final when both candidates were big characters

Last year had Mark who was unlikable and Bianca who was quite dull

More money at risk with Vana, and he had to pick one of them . He's taken a dull project , rather than one that would actually cost him more than a tiny 250k , and might not work. Its the classic critique of why British business has failed - low risk, low investment, low return.

And there's an argument that, if she's viable, Vana now has the profile to get more money elsewhere - as Luisa did. Joseph needs more help.

In show history terms, he's taken another safe winner who wants to do what he's doing now, although Joe was nearer the people who got turned down before. There's not much difference between a plumber, and a dance school, or restaurant, or shop.

Yes, in a world without Simon, Lee, Claire, Tom P, Ricky, Luisa, Bianca or Mark W.

Alas, we live not in such a world.

LOL at thinking that page 3 model Luisa was a good finalist

On that point, Selina probably should have made the final for you (mind you, Selina and Luisa are at on twitter).

Gives me at least something to smile about it tonight.

I really enjoyed the series, but yes, I think these were the worst two finalists across all series.
I'm not saying that they were particularly bad, it's just that neither of them really convinced me with their business plans or impressed me in any way.

Its obviously not about them but about the business ideas sugar can steal. Vans would have been good but she would have the only voice in the building, so she should go solo. A few years ago the Nile file guy wouldn't have made it past week 1 without sugar reading his plan. He was a stuttering mess (without being rude)

Simon was very suitable for that series's job. Claire has been very successful. Tom came with an original invention and the ability to make more - which trimphed over his poor show performance and dud final plan, and has proved lucratve. . Luisa has been very successful at what she's done, and did very well on task . Bianca seems to have set up her company anyway. Ricky and Mark were dull but at least came with a plan to do more of what they were doing , that they could express in English and didn't have to junk.

Vana had a possibly good proposal but for the wrong risk adverse, cheapskate, investor, She would have gone at the interview stage most series as her needs exceeded his wallet more clearly than most. . Joe 's plan vanished at the interview stage, and he ended up just waffling about going national , andbasically offering to employ a few more plumbers and vans. Lord Sugar has turned down similar expansion offiers in the past - and turned down an almost identical final offer from Charliene this series.

Problem was she only got there because Neil completely blew it with his stupid idea of people selling their own house.

Sugs even gave him chances (like Richard) to basically say something else and he would be in the final - he could have said "Monkey Tennis" and he would have been chosen - but the idiot stuck to his unworkable idea and he got canned.

Luisa's idea of a warehouse to supply bakeries and cake comapnies was just as stupid - if you know the market- as the bakery market is shrinking due to the likes of supermarkets. The existing suppliers to bakeries and cake makers are contracting and taking each other over.

To succeed you would have to have a massive warehouse full of products - which would cost millions to stock.

Her final product "Baker's toolkit" was more aimed at the home baking market, which is dominated in the UK by 2 companies, both huge, multinational conglomerates and totally ruthless. She would be wiped out in a matter of weeks.

Joe won because Vana lost (and perhaps because Richard had blown his own foot off in the interview round). Joseph's idea was all over the place but should still make money once Lord Sugar's sorted it out for him.

Vana lost because £250,000 was not enough for what she wanted to do but, crucially, Vana did not realise this until Claude and Mike pointed it out in the interview round, and even now I'm not sure she really believed them so much as saw it as another box to be ticked in her final presentation. So Vana was not doomed all along but only for a week or so.

Actually, the opposite is true. Tom's nail file was not in his business plan, which involved visiting offices to measure people for bespoke chairs, which Lord Sugar hated.

Was anything said about Vana's name for the app? Play date was already taken, which no one in the interview brought up, she changed it to Date Play

Woeful candidates. Joseph is a tiny fish and I couldn't ever see myself investing (especially as he doesn't know of Smart technology).

Vana seems credible, but her idea is just nonsense.

Turkeys are useful this time of year. These two candidates ideas aren't.

Joseph will be okay with his business, maybe get larger, but I still can't stop laughing at his franchise idea and his selling the secret to his success... I imagine the start up pack is a wrench, an estimate book and key tips like "plumbing is something everyone needs".

A one stop shop online for all trade plumbing supplies would've been a million times better even if you know it probably already exists. .

Basically, the options were:

1. Set fire to £250k
2. Invest £250k and get back £285k

I thought these candidates were all pretty poor this year, very few stood out. Richard was the only one who seemed to shine during the process, and even then he looked to be playing a game on some of the tasks.

A shame his business idea was fatally flawed, else he would have walked the final IMO.

In the end, the problem was not Richard's plan but his stubborn refusal to sell his shares in the other firm, despite what seemed like five minutes of begging and pleading from a Lord Sugar apparently desperate to get him into the final.

Well, only once in ELEVEN series has Lord Sugar hired a female when there was a male finalist.

Apparently Lord Sugar likes having his butt kissed, because that was all Joseph had going for him.

Apparently Lord Sugar likes having his butt kissed, because that was all Joseph had going for him.[/quote]

One in eight series, since the other three series had all-women finals. Women have won four of the eleven series so far.

And what Joseph had going for him was the massive hole in the centre of Vana's financial projections.

nope I don't think these finalists were as good as the finalists within the 2 previous series

You think that Bianca and Luisa were better

(or Mark for that matter, but I will let that one go)