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What I Found Shocking in this Years Apprentice |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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What I Found Shocking in this Years Apprentice
What I found shocking in this years Apprentice was that someone who left school aged 15, with barely any education, was able to compete against and ultimately defeat university educated minds with degrees and MBAs.
It makes me wonder if maybe there are some problems with the British Education System. Yet, nowadays, there seems to be less and less opportunity for people without university degrees in the jobs market. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Once in the work place..common sense and drive often prevail..
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#3 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Quote:
It makes me wonder if maybe there are some problems with the British Education System.
Then you had the poor thing in the hands of Michael Gove who kept changing his mind before the kids had a chance to go through his latest masterplan. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
![]() ![]() No sour grapes on my parts as I wish Joseph well, but I found both finalists equally unimpressive. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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I don't find it 'Shocking', but I do agree.
Full marks for the tabloid-style headline, though
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
Vana had plenty of cultural capital that she used to her advantage in meetings all the time to appear polished, intellectual and most importantly a "good fit" in business. Both her parents are professionals so she's had the benefit of a lifetime absorbing the social graces that grease the wheels so much at this level of business. Joseph didn't have any of those benefits, in fact his family probably advised him (if they gave him any career advice at all!) that working hard and getting a trade behind him is the pinnacle of success. Joseph himself wanted more and saw TA as a means of getting there. He did his research well (not sure if he read the book as a kid or just before the show) and used his own cultural capital in convincing Sugar that he was modelling himself on him. He used what he had the same as the rest of them, except he had a whole lot less to start with so good on him I say. I dont see it as sucking up any more than Vana's "both of my parents are actually architects in New York" to the developer. The more common ground you find, the easier the deal is to seal. How much more intimidating for Joseph and Mergim and Charleine to defend themselves in the boardroom without a lifetime of being groomed for success, and without being the most articulate people in the room because they haven't had a great education. I admire them all for that. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,216
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In my view Joseph's plan wasn't particularly good.
A plumbing franchise? Not new. The green element was dropped during a meeting and replaced by smart technology he'd not even heard of. Not being funny but HIVE anyone? However Vana's plan was flawed due to insufficient funding, and Richard's plan was flawed due to the existing-business-with-brother issue. |
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#9 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
What I found shocking in this years Apprentice was that someone who left school aged 15, with barely any education, was able to compete against and ultimately defeat university educated minds with degrees and MBAs.
It makes me wonder if maybe there are some problems with the British Education System. Yet, nowadays, there seems to be less and less opportunity for people without university degrees in the jobs market. For every "Joseph" there are 10,000 kids who don't get qualifications and it scuppers their life chances. I know a family who are in crisis because their 14 year old son isn't making any effort at school cos he thinks he's gonna make it big as a YouTube star. It is quite right to say that having a degree doesn't mean you necessarily have the skills to be a successful entrepreneur, but Joseph has succeeded despite being kicked out of school not because of it. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 5,866
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Quote:
It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
And it's usually the females who use their "sex" to gain an advantage in this program. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 752
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Quote:
It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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I did not go to University due to family pressures, but did the vocational route at 16 so it was all paid for - this was early' 80's before every FE College became a "University" and A-levels were devalued.
I come across modern graduates who are taught at Uni that they know EVERYTHING, and believe that sincerely when they leave. I work in food, and the number of times I come across people who claim to have skills and Industrial expertise in a particular food product, then clearly don't, and all I get is " Oh- we made it in a kitchen at University". The other problem is graduates do not get much a broad experience base once they start work. There are some companies that give good training, but most just stick them in at the deep end. Unfortunately they then only know "what they know". They only know how to do something exactly like their employer does it - if others in the same industry do things a different way - they are scuppered. As mentioned above - you cannot teach common sense. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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I found it amusing more than shocking. Some people seem to go to university today for subjects that you used to learn on the job or at night school - now it's 'I have a degree in document duplication and file order strategies' In the end I wanted Joseph to win if only because he didn't use all the ridiculous corporate speak that seems to flow to readily out of some graduates mouths these days. It makes them sound, initially, more articulate and intelligent than people like Joseph, but in the end it's all meaningless crap, just there to cover up for the fact that they have nothing worth while to say. Quote:
It's not what you know, its who you know. The final just proves that. Winning by sucking up is a low strategy in my book, and it's always men that do it. Never on this show have I seen a woman compare herself to a young Lord Sugar and try and tug on his heartstrings for an easier ride.
Quote:
That's a rather sexist attitude, don't you remember last year and the diamond scandal. A female used her charms to gain an unfair price, if that's not sucking up I don't know what is.
And it's usually the females who use their "sex" to gain an advantage in this program. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Quote:
That's a rather sexist attitude, don't you remember last year and the diamond scandal. A female used her charms to gain an unfair price, if that's not sucking up I don't know what is.
And it's usually the females who use their "sex" to gain an advantage in this program. "Women use sex to get what you want, Men, however, cannot use sex to get what we want...as sex IS what we want " |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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It's not so much about degrees anymore, like it was say 10-15 years ago. Nowadays there are people who take on Diploma courses, short courses, specialist courses related to a specific field of their interest they wish to excel in and take it from there to make money. I've seen Sage Certified, MS Excel/VBA certified people with no degrees or educational background except these very courses and go on with experience to make a lot of money.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
Posts: 5,866
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^^Yes this year with the glasses salesman who just happened to overhear that they needed glasses. He starts at €200, they batter they're eyelashes and he drops it to €40 (or something). This practice should be stopped and the purchase nulled and void.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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I remember having to teach the Uni lecturers how things actually work, was fun explaining how a mag tape drive (the swirly thing you always see in movies) works and how that a program that selects records on a criteria cannot know how many will be written until the query has been ran.....and then you meet the resultant people straight out of uni and you can see over the first few months the reality tearing holes in their fragile little bubble of knowledge.
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#18 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
I found it amusing more than shocking. Some people seem to go to university today for subjects that you used to learn on the job or at night school - now it's 'I have a degree in document duplication and file order strategies'
Nowadays in order to go into - well, basically any job, they want you to have a degree in that particular exact thing, and if you don't - "well, didn't you plan for that before you did your degree if you were looking to work in this field?" is the attitude. I was recently unemployed for a short while and tried to get a job in my local library only to be told without a four-year degree in librarianship I wasn't getting through the door. Seriously?? And good luck finding a night school to get some qualifications outside of a big city. That is, it's not that stupid degrees are giving people useless over-specified qualifications off the bat; in my experience, its that the jobs - for whatever reason - are demanding them and so the courses are created. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,486
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Quote:
It is still recovering from not realising when Tony Blair said he would send more people to University that he would do it by making A Levels much easier.
Then you had the poor thing in the hands of Michael Gove who kept changing his mind before the kids had a chance to go through his latest masterplan. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Rebel County
Posts: 17,761
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Quote:
What I found shocking in this years Apprentice was that someone who left school aged 15, with barely any education, was able to compete against and ultimately defeat university educated minds with degrees and MBAs.
It makes me wonder if maybe there are some problems with the British Education System. Yet, nowadays, there seems to be less and less opportunity for people without university degrees in the jobs market. I don't think there's a flaw in the education system on that front, for every clever idea there has to be a lot of worker drones making it.
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#21 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
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When did he say he'd make A levels easier? the desire to have at least 50% of people going to University is a good one.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 5,866
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^^ Quite often entrepreneur's have dropped out of higher education. I personally think it's to do with education now has to follow such strict guidelines that it doesn't allow for "free thinking" hence why a lot of students lack any "common sense or street smarts" it's beaten out of them. Education like the driving test is not about learning anymore, but about passing exams.
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#23 |
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kent but ex Sarf London
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Quote:
^^ Quite often entrepreneur's have dropped out of higher education. I personally think it's to do with education now has to follow such strict guidelines that it doesn't allow for "free thinking" hence why a lot of students lack any "common sense or street smarts" it's beaten out of them. Education like the driving test is not about learning anymore, but about passing exams.
Common sense, thinking on your feet and being able to adapt are far more important than what you've been taught imo and Joseph had those qualities in spades. Personally, I think its brilliant that someone has shown that you can still make something of yourself, despite a bad start in life |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Rebel County
Posts: 17,761
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Quote:
^^ Quite often entrepreneur's have dropped out of higher education. I personally think it's to do with education now has to follow such strict guidelines that it doesn't allow for "free thinking" hence why a lot of students lack any "common sense or street smarts" it's beaten out of them. Education like the driving test is not about learning anymore, but about passing exams.
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#25 |
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Quote:
Joseph didn't know any of them beforehand
Vana had plenty of cultural capital that she used to her advantage in meetings all the time to appear polished, intellectual and most importantly a "good fit" in business. Both her parents are professionals so she's had the benefit of a lifetime absorbing the social graces that grease the wheels so much at this level of business. Joseph didn't have any of those benefits, in fact his family probably advised him (if they gave him any career advice at all!) that working hard and getting a trade behind him is the pinnacle of success. Joseph himself wanted more and saw TA as a means of getting there. He did his research well (not sure if he read the book as a kid or just before the show) and used his own cultural capital in convincing Sugar that he was modelling himself on him. He used what he had the same as the rest of them, except he had a whole lot less to start with so good on him I say. I dont see it as sucking up any more than Vana's "both of my parents are actually architects in New York" to the developer. The more common ground you find, the easier the deal is to seal. How much more intimidating for Joseph and Mergim and Charleine to defend themselves in the boardroom without a lifetime of being groomed for success, and without being the most articulate people in the room because they haven't had a great education. I admire them all for that. |
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Vana had plenty of cultural capital that she used to her advantage in meetings all the time to appear polished, intellectual and most importantly a "good fit" in business. Both her parents are professionals so she's had the benefit of a lifetime absorbing the social graces that grease the wheels so much at this level of business.