Personally I think Craig has been a judge for so long I think he has got to a point where he only considers giving top marks to his friends and Kellie was a friend whereas Jay wasn't. Perhaps he needs to go just like Len. The judging panel is looking tired.

This is ridiculous

I don't even go on the App thread

And CRH isn't some dancing God you know

Not everyone buys into what some non Jay fans think either, or rather fans of others perhaps?

No amount of you sneering and saying 'ooh the judges tho', will change anything either.

And of course people vote for their favourite

You be happy, or not, I don't actually care.

I missed this. A very good point illustrating how people can be selective in who and what they listen to. Basically for many of us, a person is a good critic when we agree with them. I.e. We tend to respect people who are a reflection of our own opinions and reinforce them.

Craig specifically said 'Sometimes the best dancer doesn't win' - he didn't qualify it with 'on the night' he made rather a point of saying that Jay had won the hearts and minds of viewers early on.

It was quite clear on the red button interview.

Yes, I agree.
The other week he was well respected and his thoughts were held up by Jay fans, so I thought, as they seem to be ignored now, it worth mentioning, especially as some are keen to say that she didn't deserve her place on the leaderboard.


Yes I saw that.

In saying that though he didn't say tonight, but he didn't not say it. So it can be open to interpret how you wish really.
On the night he obviously saw Kellie as the best he gave her two tens and a nine, he gave Jay an eight and two nines. He would look idiotic if he said that Jay was the best dancer of the night, not to mention how many people would pull him up on it on why he marked him so low if he thought him the best.

He gives critiques, he gives scores, going by those things, I don't believe Craig did think Jay the best dancer, on the night or the series. I don't see that it matters. Everyone has different preferences, my own has ebbed and flowed through the series between the final three and landed on Kellie on the final night.

He said nice words about him, even if he doesn't believe him the best dancer. He got the trophy, you can't have it all.

Honestly the only way Craig would have ever awarded Jay a ten is if he'd performed the Jive and even then I have serious doubts that would happen.

The simple answer is that Craig just didn't care for Jay's style of dancing. He's made that clear most of the way through and Aliona has said that she felt that Jay put the the right amount of expression relative to each dance making it clear they weren't going to go all big smiles and jazz hands unless the dance called for it so a ten from Craig would not be forthcoming.

As a Jay fan I wish it were otherwise and it'd be nice if there was some give and take with Craig but as soon as he started outright saying he was overlooking one of Georgia's mistakes you knew showy-ness trumps any mistakes with him hence Kellie's scores. That's fine, we know the judges scores don't always reflect the best dances but rather the show's narrative and their personal favorites hence why Jay's jive which they concede is one of the best dances on the show ever doesn't get a 40 either. (oh well)

What did irk me is this massive love-in for Kellie in the final. Perhaps it's my faulty memory but I can't remember when judges have brought up a contestant having a packed schedule. The impression I've always got is that the celebs know what they are signing up for and if they find it tough to train between their other work commitments it's their tough luck. Likewise the comments after the show are rather bothersome.

I don't expect Craig or anyone else to lie about who they felt should win but usually in any kind of competition there's a sense of a fair play. You shake hands at the end or say "well the best man won" which is usually a politest possible to avoid saying you disagree but there's nothing you can do about it. Craig could have easily said something along the lines of "his dancing wasn't my style but obviously it appealed to the public".

All this does is basically stoke fires on both sides of the debate that there's something wrong with the show. People who don't care for Jay as a winner will forever more use those scores as some form of proof "Kellie wuz robbed" and Jay fans will continue to think that the show was working against him. It also strangely retroactively makes Kellie seem like a contender to win when I don't think was ever really the case. I mean people talk about Jay living off the good will of one good dance with that jive whereas I think you could make the argument with Kellie, hers just happened to be at the final.

That is along the lines of what he actually said.

Jay could have got 40 for the jive, had he danced it in the final. Craig really loved that dance, you can't blame him not getting 40 for his jive on anyone but him and Aliona. They could have gone for it and got the big score.

He told Georgia he was going to forgive her because there had been a problem with her outfit. They never knock marks off for problems with outfits, ever. Jill's jive still got 40 despite her getting caught in her dress. Mark was even allowed to start his whole dance again when his mic got snagged in Karen. It's nothing to do with Georgia getting some sort of special dispensation to make mistakes, and certainly nothing to do with Kellie's scores.

Close but not quite. His wording was much more deliberate and implied the public who voted for Jay did so for reasons other than disagreeing with him over whether Jay was the best of the finalist.

I know I'll probably get accused of wearing a tin foil hat (and I kind of feel like I'm wearing one for typing this) but I personally don't believe the choice not to dance the Jive was Jay and Aliona's. The way they announced they wouldn't and gave their reasons in various interviews were a bit odd and certainly Tess's comments seemed to suggest there was an issue with the bosses for even suggesting they should have.

Putting that aside though the judges did had an opportunity to give the jive a 40 the first time. Now we're left with the bizarre reality that a dance those same judges have hailed as the best dance of the series and one of the best dances in the show ever doesn't get full marks. I'm not blaming anyone for that, like I said the show has a narrative and it doesn't include anyone getting a 40 in week 3. I understand and accept that. Still I still have a sneaking suspicion had they performed it Len and Darcy would have upped their scores but Craig's would have remained constant...but we'll never know for sure.

I may not agree with everything you are saying but fair enough and Craig can score as he wishes. A comment above mentions how much he is focused on the "performance" value, even if it means ignoring mistakes. As with anyone he also has a specific notion of what performance means. So be it.

Not that it really matters but more out of interest, the BIB, I checked and both Kara and Alesha did receive 10s from Craig (in the final once each). Both times Len prevented the 40. So it's true they won without 40s but not without a 10 from Craig (or the others) among their scores. Does anyone know if there has been a winner who actually didn't receive a 10 from Craig?

There are ATs for other couples so the same could be said about those fans and their thinking. in other words, they also would have been capable of 'group think.' No bubble was pricked but more the judges had an agenda on sat night (imo)

I get what you're saying but still - that jive got 37 and that effing tango got 40.

Worraloadofoldshit.

Lol at effing Tango 😀😀😀😅

Because he's entitled to an opinion?


And he also said this too: https://twitter.com/Mattbourne1/stat...38094601543680

For those who can't be arsed to read it:



Quite, considering they missed Matthew Bourne's other Tweet off the list.


So why choose to not post his other Tweet in which he said Jay & Aliona were worthy winners of a great final? Or didn't that fit into the "worth mentioning" element where he praised Jay's victory just the same as he praised Kellie's efforts earlier?

The result of Jay not being able to act at all convincingly is a lack of story , emotion or expression in what he does. That should deny him a 40 most of the time. Dancing by numbers isn't a 40 - or they could do it in silence.

Marking on SCD is designed to produce the right total for the leaderboard. When its obvious that something isn't a 40, or as good as something being given a 40, one judge has to give a 9 - they can't each give 9 3/4. Craig tends to get the role of making the total match the dance by knocking off the necessary mark. Bruno sometimes does too on dramatic impact, while Len tends to penalise anything that doesn't have enough set moves, and often doesn't like anything story telling.

Strangely enough I see Kellie as a dancer that does things by numbers and has no art. Foot here, bend there, wide smile, get 10s. I'd love someone with proper dance knowledge to tell me how she apparently dances well technically, with acting skills, but leaves so many people totally underwhelmed.

See, this is something I never really agreed was a problem for Jay.

Jay acted and created a story well enough, I think he generally (not always) had the appropriate level of expression for each dance. He certainly seemed to channel Vince Vega in the jive, the Rumba was also another dance were he played the part well and even got commented on it. Same with the salsa and the charleston where he smiled and had expressions to match the lyrics and the story. In this context 'acting' was just his nicer term for gurning hence why I don't believe even if Jay and Aliona had done the jive in the final it would have gotten a ten from Craig.


The problem is it doesn't seem to work like that.

As said on here before early in the series all judges seem to grade on a curve except none of them ever go too high so as to ruin the series sense of progression - it's a fine if self imposed line they walk. Same with when the get more generous with the ten paddles in Blackpool - is there something about Blackpool where everyone gets magically better than the week before? Of course not but it's special and treated as such by the judges scores. Most viewers know and accept this but it breaks the credibility more than a little and shows they don't really give the dances what they deserve.

Darcey's comment after the Jive spelt it out clearly. 'As it's week 3, a nine.' As others have said, the week shouldn't matter when it comes to the scores.

I mean it could just be that Jay doesn't have the facial features to be as expressive as others. His mouth is naturally smaller than Kellie and Peter's and probably Georgia's. (That's not a criticism of anyone.) His eyes don't seem as big as all of them too. I do think it was a shame that Craig didn't give a ten when he gave two to Kellie (whose dances I didn't like, especially the Tango. Her frenzied and over the top performances never did anything for me. Her semi-final dances were my favourites for the decrease of face-pulling.) However, that is his prerogative, he can score whatever he likes; the six for Anita, the four for Katie. He knows that a ten from him means more than the other three, so is deliberately stingy with them.

I think that Craig might be a fan of the late Carmen Miranda and that he judges in terms of that - ie has someone been able to dance as vivaciously as that and could they, too,do it with a pile of fruit on the head, to a mariachi band.

So why choose to not post his other Tweet in which he said Jay & Aliona were worthy winners of a great final? Or didn't that fit into the "worth mentioning" element where he praised Jay's victory just the same as he praised Kellie's efforts earlier?[/quote]

I noticed that Matthew Bourne's tweet about Jay and Aliona was not quoted by the poster, just the Kellie ones.

[quote=thenetworkbabe;80835840]The result of Jay not being able to act at all convincingly is a lack of story , emotion or expression in what he does. That should deny him a 40 most of the time. Dancing by numbers isn't a 40 - or they could do it in silence.

I have to disagree with this. Jay won because the public thought he did act convincingly, emoted and expressed wonderfully. Why else would he have won? The public’s not stupid. They know what they saw/felt when Jay danced.

Over the weeks I’ve watched many of the world’s top dancers on Youtube doing a selection of dances. They emote and express through their body actions. Their dancing tells the story not their faces.

I think that the point the poster was making was that people have often quoted Matthew Bourne's tweets about Jay, when in fact he also tweets positively about Kellie. He obviously thinks Jay is a good dancer but enjoyed Kellie's performance on the night.

In fact Matthew Bourne just seems to really enjoy watching Strictly and is generous about everyone on the show. He isn't a ballroom dancer and so I wouldn't be guided by his views on technique anyway, but it is nice to see someone who enjoys the show in such good spirit.

I noticed that Matthew Bourne's tweet about Jay and Aliona was not quoted by the poster, just the Kellie ones.[/quote]

Yes, I left that one off. Because it was after the fact, after he won, while it was happening live and there was no results he was clearly saying that Kellie was storming the final and I highlighted this as people were saying she was not and shouldn't be marked as she was.

[quote=celloplayer;80836547]
They could do it to 5, 6, 7, 8 by Steps

Totally agree. I do think that the judges show favouritism to certain dancers, and was obvious with Kellie this year. I think this alienates the viewers, especially when they undermark as we have seen this season.
If you look at the digital spy "who did you like best" themes, they have nearly all been for Jay and Aliona, so in the end, the people decide and in fact they did.
Congratulations to Aliona and Jay.