Kellies Tango was not horrid and she thoroughly deserves her mark. Jays paso didn't. Simple. No conspiracy. I don't get why Jay fans are upset - he won, despite being the weakest on the night. Don't try and pull Kellie down, because she won the night and performed better.
Why was Craig determined not to give that Paso a 10?
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I can't quite remember Craig's comments after Kellie's "Ooom pah pah" - something like "It was common and filthy and I loved it". That describes Craig for me - he doesn't appreciate gentleness and subtlety. His background is theatre and he likes BIG and LOUD, stuff that people in the back of the theatre can see. That just isn't Jay's style.
The important thing for me is that Jay won.
The important thing for me is that Jay won.
Originally Posted by Bedlam_maid:
“I can't quite remember Craig's comments after Kellie's "Ooom pah pah" - something like "It was common and filthy and I loved it". That describes Craig for me - he doesn't appreciate gentleness and subtlety. His background is theatre and he likes BIG and LOUD, stuff that people in the back of the theatre can see. That just isn't Jay's style. .”
“I can't quite remember Craig's comments after Kellie's "Ooom pah pah" - something like "It was common and filthy and I loved it". That describes Craig for me - he doesn't appreciate gentleness and subtlety. His background is theatre and he likes BIG and LOUD, stuff that people in the back of the theatre can see. That just isn't Jay's style. .”
I think you've actually whacked the drawing pin on the head with a sledge hammer
Originally Posted by Bedlam_maid:
“I can't quite remember Craig's comments after Kellie's "Ooom pah pah" - something like "It was common and filthy and I loved it". That describes Craig for me - he doesn't appreciate gentleness and subtlety. His background is theatre and he likes BIG and LOUD, stuff that people in the back of the theatre can see. That just isn't Jay's style.
The important thing for me is that Jay won.”
“I can't quite remember Craig's comments after Kellie's "Ooom pah pah" - something like "It was common and filthy and I loved it". That describes Craig for me - he doesn't appreciate gentleness and subtlety. His background is theatre and he likes BIG and LOUD, stuff that people in the back of the theatre can see. That just isn't Jay's style.
The important thing for me is that Jay won.”
Oh yes, as MayD says hammer, nail, head.
The idea seems to be that each judge has a particular focus when marking. Obviously they are all concerned with multiple things such as precision and performance but with more focus on certain aspects.
Craig is the fan of big showy performances ("loud" is perhaps a good way to put it), Darcy is about the lines and fluidity (which makes sense given her background), Len is concerned with traditional technique and form (again makes sense for him), and Bruno is about.. erm... falling off his chair?
No Bruno is probably about personality in the performance.
With this set-up the dance needs to provide various elements to get full marks. I.e. it has to be a big performance with personality, fluidity, good lines, but also strong traditional technique and form. This seems like quite a good system but...
The issue is when the judges are not consistent with it. When Len picks up on technical detail with some but not others, for instance. There are other flaws to how they mark such as artificially lowering then raising the average over the series but consistency is the main problem. It also doesn't help when there seems to be personal issues. Again Len is the most obvious for this (not only him though and Craig may be subject to this.. erm Lisa Riley!
). Len seems to get wound up not only when pros lack the traditional approach but also deliberately ignore his "advice" (or rather orders). Artem was like this, Aliona had some moments, and Gleb seems to be the new one. Kevin in contrast can get away with more from him because he is more respectful to him and along with a VW that is far from traditional will also do a text-book Fred and Ginge AS along the way. If he was always traditional maybe it would annoy people less.
As for Craig and Jay's Paso (which I have somewhat strayed away from
), I think it was "big" enough but presumably it was not OTT enough for Craig. If that is his way of seeing it, it is just the way it is. It does raise questions of course such as how Georgia was seen as "big" in her performances in comparison for many high marks. By this logic I would expected him to suggest there was something bland in many of her performances but then that might just be me projecting my opinion. This is the problem when we all have different takes on the dancers and dances.
Craig is the fan of big showy performances ("loud" is perhaps a good way to put it), Darcy is about the lines and fluidity (which makes sense given her background), Len is concerned with traditional technique and form (again makes sense for him), and Bruno is about.. erm... falling off his chair?
No Bruno is probably about personality in the performance.With this set-up the dance needs to provide various elements to get full marks. I.e. it has to be a big performance with personality, fluidity, good lines, but also strong traditional technique and form. This seems like quite a good system but...
The issue is when the judges are not consistent with it. When Len picks up on technical detail with some but not others, for instance. There are other flaws to how they mark such as artificially lowering then raising the average over the series but consistency is the main problem. It also doesn't help when there seems to be personal issues. Again Len is the most obvious for this (not only him though and Craig may be subject to this.. erm Lisa Riley!
). Len seems to get wound up not only when pros lack the traditional approach but also deliberately ignore his "advice" (or rather orders). Artem was like this, Aliona had some moments, and Gleb seems to be the new one. Kevin in contrast can get away with more from him because he is more respectful to him and along with a VW that is far from traditional will also do a text-book Fred and Ginge AS along the way. If he was always traditional maybe it would annoy people less.As for Craig and Jay's Paso (which I have somewhat strayed away from
), I think it was "big" enough but presumably it was not OTT enough for Craig. If that is his way of seeing it, it is just the way it is. It does raise questions of course such as how Georgia was seen as "big" in her performances in comparison for many high marks. By this logic I would expected him to suggest there was something bland in many of her performances but then that might just be me projecting my opinion. This is the problem when we all have different takes on the dancers and dances.
[quote=Stephen_101;80836901]Kellies Tango was not horrid and she thoroughly deserves her mark. Jays paso didn't. Simple. No conspiracy. I don't get why Jay fans are upset - he won, despite being the weakest on the night. Don't try and pull Kellie down, because she won the night and performed better.[/QUO
It is not a fact that Kellie's tango was better it is your opinion, in mine Jay's paso was much better.
It is not a fact that Kellie's tango was better it is your opinion, in mine Jay's paso was much better.
Am I the only one to not have a clue who Matthew Bourne is?
I can't even be bothered to Google and look up - I have no real interest in digging up tweets to justify what I saw and what I like.
My views on here are my own - whether they're technically correct, judging on the 'wrong' stuff or just acting on a feeling - I jut post what i feel.
Don't see the point of all this nah, nah, nah - look what Matthew said etc.
I can't even be bothered to Google and look up - I have no real interest in digging up tweets to justify what I saw and what I like.
My views on here are my own - whether they're technically correct, judging on the 'wrong' stuff or just acting on a feeling - I jut post what i feel.
Don't see the point of all this nah, nah, nah - look what Matthew said etc.
Is a 40 really that important though?
Would you rather win the whole thing with no 40 or lose it with multiple 40's?
Is it just the idea that your fave wasn't judged to be ~the best on the night or is it a genuine feeling of it being unfair? I just think it seems to mean a lot more to some fans than it ever does to certain couples. That's the reason they left a definite 40 dance in week 3 and didn't haul it back out again.
Would you rather win the whole thing with no 40 or lose it with multiple 40's?
Is it just the idea that your fave wasn't judged to be ~the best on the night or is it a genuine feeling of it being unfair? I just think it seems to mean a lot more to some fans than it ever does to certain couples. That's the reason they left a definite 40 dance in week 3 and didn't haul it back out again.
Originally Posted by amelia_lee:
“[/b]]
Yes, I left that one off. Because it was after the fact, after he won, while it was happening live and there was no results he was clearly saying that Kellie was storming the final and I highlighted this as people were saying she was not and shouldn't be marked as she was.”
“[/b]]
Yes, I left that one off. Because it was after the fact, after he won, while it was happening live and there was no results he was clearly saying that Kellie was storming the final and I highlighted this as people were saying she was not and shouldn't be marked as she was.”
I think a lot of people thought she shouldn't have been marked as she was. Her showdance wasn't my cup of tea but I understand why she was given 40. Her tango should not have been that highly marked (imo).
Craig loves Kellie's style of dancing so I was not surprised at the marks he gave her.
Originally Posted by Stephen_101:
“Kellies Tango was not horrid and she thoroughly deserves her mark. Jays paso didn't. Simple. No conspiracy. I don't get why Jay fans are upset - he won, despite being the weakest on the night. Don't try and pull Kellie down, because she won the night and performed better.”
“Kellies Tango was not horrid and she thoroughly deserves her mark. Jays paso didn't. Simple. No conspiracy. I don't get why Jay fans are upset - he won, despite being the weakest on the night. Don't try and pull Kellie down, because she won the night and performed better.”
They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.
Originally Posted by amelia_lee:
“[/b]
I noticed that Matthew Bourne's tweet about Jay and Aliona was not quoted by the poster, just the Kellie ones.”
“[/b]
I noticed that Matthew Bourne's tweet about Jay and Aliona was not quoted by the poster, just the Kellie ones.”
Yes, I left that one off. Because it was after the fact, after he won, while it was happening live and there was no results he was clearly saying that Kellie was storming the final and I highlighted this as people were saying she was not and shouldn't be marked as she was.[/quote]
Well clearly Matthew (whoever he is) thought she was storming the final and others like you thought so too.
That really doesn't make it true - quite clearly Jay stormed the final in the publics eyes. There is no right and no wrong on this - just peoples opinions and then it's the result that tells us who stormed.
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
Or perhaps you and others will never accept that it's a matter of opinion, and some simply don't think he was the weakest on the night.
As for Kellie's Tango, I've said it so many times and I'll say it again, she was in completely the wrong hold throughout the dance. I'm baffled at how it got 40 and how so many have ignored this.
Originally Posted by Penny Crayon:
“quite clearly Jay stormed the final in the publics eyes.
There is no right and no wrong on this - just peoples opinions and then it's the result that tells us who stormed.”
“quite clearly Jay stormed the final in the publics eyes.
There is no right and no wrong on this - just peoples opinions and then it's the result that tells us who stormed.”
Sorry for snipping but it is to avoid confusion. The first bit... I don't think you can necessarily presume that Jay stormed (or won) the final in the publics' eyes just because he won the vote. It's possible that many just didn't like Kellie that much, or found her dances too manic, and so on, but certainly at the time I thought she was stealing the show. On reflection I am less sure about that because I think Jay's dances were just less obviously instant yet possibly as strong in their own way. I might still say she ultimately did "win" the final and while I wouldn't have been unhappy to see her win I did want Jay to win. This is because it is about the whole series.
I wouldn't understand the logic of choosing a winner just on the final. For instance, what if all of them except Katie had stumbled all over the place and ended up shouting "f*ck it" and walking off?
With Katie being solid and getting to the end of her dances. Would she (on dance merit) have deserved to win then? Clearly the final performances are important but only part of the bigger picture where they performed for months doing lots of dances. Jay won on that criteria (at least) for me and that could well be the case for most of those that voted. Maybe not, but the truth is we don't know exactly what his voters felt about the final specifically.
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
How is having a different opinion on the quality/authenticity/appeal of Kellie's dances unedifying?
Why should your opinion carry more weight than someone who didn't like them, regardless of whether they are a Jay fan or not?
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
So, when I and others ARGUE cogently that AT LEAST the idea that Kellie was the best on the night is debateable and show you why...
You don't argue the opposite, but insist that it's our 'BELIEF system' than prevents us seeing what? The undeniable TRUTH?
That the opinion of the Almighty God of jazz hands and gurning, is unarguable?
I thinks it's you who have the 'belief system'.
Yep, I'm massively pleased Jay won, by the way.
Originally Posted by Ann_Dancer:
“I think that the point the poster was making was that people have often quoted Matthew Bourne's tweets about Jay, when in fact he also tweets positively about Kellie. He obviously thinks Jay is a good dancer but enjoyed Kellie's performance on the night.
In fact Matthew Bourne just seems to really enjoy watching Strictly and is generous about everyone on the show. He isn't a ballroom dancer and so I wouldn't be guided by his views on technique anyway, but it is nice to see someone who enjoys the show in such good spirit.”
“I think that the point the poster was making was that people have often quoted Matthew Bourne's tweets about Jay, when in fact he also tweets positively about Kellie. He obviously thinks Jay is a good dancer but enjoyed Kellie's performance on the night.
In fact Matthew Bourne just seems to really enjoy watching Strictly and is generous about everyone on the show. He isn't a ballroom dancer and so I wouldn't be guided by his views on technique anyway, but it is nice to see someone who enjoys the show in such good spirit.”
Yes he has posted about most of the contestants throughout the show but as the poster was using his Tweets to highlight some praise for Kellie, it was a little bit disingenuous to ignore the one which also said Jay was a worthy winner.
Originally Posted by Aurora13:
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
“They will never accept he was the weakest on the night. If his performances had been delivered by anyone but Jay it would be a different matter of course. It's unedifying seeing people want to run down Kellie / Cliftons / Judges just to justify their own belief system. As you say Jay won you'd think that would be enough.”
Oddly enough because this mysterious "they" are quite entitled to have a different opinion based on what "they" like to see in a routine. He was at the bottom of the Judge's leaderboard because they preferred the other two but, as he won, quite clearly the public thought otherwise.
The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.
Originally Posted by The_Bonobo:
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.”
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.
”
What a good post. I agree .
The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.
Originally Posted by The_Bonobo:
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.”
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.
”
Exactly. I mean I'd never heard of The Wanted, let alone any of its members. I hate boy bands - my musical tastes most definitely don't embrace them. I was just drawn in by Jay because he lopes around like a typical big bloke off the dance floor and then morphs into this wonderful dancer on it. I happen to prefer his lyrical style over the wham bang thank you mam stuff that some of the others produce. It's not blind bias, just an opinion .......to which I'm entitled and which is as valid as those who take the opposite view.
Originally Posted by Littlegreen42:
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
Neither were theirs.
Originally Posted by Littlegreen42:
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
IYO but as you went OTT in support of Anita's jumping around to music I would query the weight we should give it
Originally Posted by The_Bonobo:
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.”
“The idea that there is or was some blind bias towards Jay doesn't really make sense. There will always be a minority who lose perspective but I am talking in general. If it was someone like David Beckham going into the show with lots of super-fans already in place, maybe I could buy it. But Jay was arguably one of the less well recognized members of a band that many would have only known as "the guys who are not One Direction". Clearly most of the fans he has acquired have become so based on his dancing over the series (including one that for many is perhaps the best dance the show has seen), with perhaps a feeling that he is also a decent and nice guy. Is that not how it is supposed to work, and completely reasonable?
Some think Kellie deserves credit for her final performances, some think Jay deserves credit for his performances over the series as a whole. Both of these seem fair enough to me. Also if some think Jay deserves more credit (from the judges especially) for what he did in the final, what's so wrong in that? If they have become a fan based on his dancing it is surely understandable that they might have a higher opinion of his final dances than some other's opinions. The idea that they are just incapable of seeing things honestly due to some OTT bias towards someone many (if not most) had hardly heard of at the start seems unlikely.
”
Explains it perfectly.
Some judge the overall result on the Final, some on the series overall - but we decide on our 'favourite'.
The judges prefer different things - Craig likes the theatrical, Darcey mostly likes the lyrical.
I prefer Jay as, to me, he conveys emotion with his dancing and most of his dances stand watching again - there's something more to see each time.
I also really liked Georgia and would have been happy if she'd won - enthusiastic in her Charleston and by the end such a good ballroom dancer. Kellie, to me, performs rather than dances and her Final dances were too similar in tone - but credit to her for such a good performance.
Do I prefer Jay because I want to mother him - nope he's 25 and not a child, because I fancy him - nope not at all, except I appreciate his dancing, because I'm a fan of the Wanted - nope not keen on boy bands
He seems a nice bloke and I know he's done a lot of practical help for children's charities (Giving his Olympic Torch to a local charity to fund-raise - if in the extremely unlikely event I'd ever had a Torch, I'd never be able to let go of it!).
Originally Posted by Littlegreen42:
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
“The only two dances that deserved 40 in the final were Kellie's showdance and Georgia's Charleston. The rest were good but not perfect.”
If we choose to be picky, none of them was perfect; nothing ever really is. So, if you're going to award 40s for Kellie lagging a bit behind at the end and Georgia going a bit out of synch here and there, then I'd have thought Jay "deserved" a 40 just as much as them.
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