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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Darcey says Kellie should have won
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Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by bornfree:
“I must be the only person who thinks Kellie was not brilliant and her show dance was nothing to write home to about. IMO it was boring and had nothing memorable just like her.”

No you are not. Her technique aside, I thought it was too schmaltzy, too noisy, even too vulgar at times. Stuff of yesteryear.
It was like a huge colored balloon: one moment it's hovering over your head and you don't see anything else; then it bursts and you are deaf for a couple of seconds; after that you look around and see nothing but bright shreds littering the ground.
I would not return to rewatch it - unlike the routines of some other, less flashy contestants where you keep discovering more nuances every time you watch.
DeltaBlues
23-12-2015
The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.
MayD
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.”

F**k me that's good
Tejas
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.”

*Applauds* Faultless post!!
Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“ They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so..”

Absolutely. The "professional behavior" requirement should be stated in their contracts. They should not speak as private citizens to tabloids and still be called "SCD judges".
Bedlam_maid
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.”

Well said
LaughingSock
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.”

Absolutely well said!

The judges' comments after the show was over really put a damper on my enjoyment of my favorite winning. Yeah, how dare we expect the judges to show a little graciousness. They're supposed to be professionals. Bitching like they're people on this forum and not professionals is just not acceptable.
Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“Absolutely well said!

The judges' comments after the show was over really put a damper on my enjoyment of my favorite winning. Yeah, how dare we expect the judges to show a little graciousness. They're supposed to be professionals. Bitching like they're people on this forum and not professionals is just not acceptable.”

You speak of graciousness and professionalism as incompatible things. I actually see graciousness as part of professionalism. You can say whatever you want in private conversations but not in interviews where you are invited as a SCD judge and in which you represent a program.
LaughingSock
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Olivia_P:
“You speak of graciousness and professionalism as incompatible things. I actually see graciousness as part of professionalism. You can say whatever you want in private conversations but not in interviews where you are invited as a SCD judge and in which you represent a program.”

I think you misread me. I didn't imply that they were incompatible. On the contrary, I wanted both from the judges, and bizarrely enough, the only one we got it from was Bruno.
Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“I think you misread me. I didn't imply that they were incompatible. On the contrary, I wanted both from the judges, and bizarrely enough, the only one we got it from was Bruno.”

My apologies.
My only explanation for unexpected lack of professionalism from Darcey is that her comment was taken out of context. The article that I have read did not quote the interviewer's question, only Darcey's response, and then mentioned that Craig agreed. The headline was even more misleading, it stretched Darcey's opinion further and presented as the opinion of all SCD judges. Some journalism.
LaughingSock
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Olivia_P:
“My apologies.
My only explanation for unexpected lack of professionalism from Darcey is that her comment was taken out of context. The article that I have read did not quote the interviewer's question, only Darcey's response, and then mentioned that Craig agreed. The headline was even more misleading, it stretched Darcey's opinion further and presented as the opinion of all SCD judges. Some journalism.”

No problem!

Huh, interesting. I thought it was the other way around, considering it was Craig who made the comment about the winner not being the best dancer. I thought someone asked Darcey if she agreed and she said yes.

Even if she was misquoted, I would have liked her, Craig and Len to keep comments about who their favorites are, or who they want to win, to themselves. Which they didn't on the show. Especially Len, telling Kellie that he thinks she should win the competition right at the judges table. Show some dignity, Goodman. Nobody's saying you shouldn't think it, but a professional should have a very sturdy brain-to-mouth filter, not one made of tissue paper.
Cadiva
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by LaughingSock:
“No problem!

Huh, interesting. I thought it was the other way around, considering it was Craig who made the comment about the winner not being the best dancer. I thought someone asked Darcey if she agreed and she said yes.

Even if she was misquoted, I would have liked her, Craig and Len to keep comments about who their favorites are, or who they want to win, to themselves. Which they didn't on the show. Especially Len, telling Kellie that he thinks she should win the competition right at the judges table. Show some dignity, Goodman. Nobody's saying you shouldn't think it, but a professional should have a very sturdy brain-to-mouth filter, not one made of tissue paper.”

The quote, as has been said on the thread already, was made by Darcy to a leading question asked by Jeremy Vine on the Red Button commentary after the show. She didn't speak to any newspapers, they've lifted it and twisted it to suit their own agenda.
LaughingSock
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“The quote, as has been said on the thread already, was made by Darcy to a leading question asked by Jeremy Vine on the Red Button commentary after the show. She didn't speak to any newspapers, they've lifted it and twisted it to suit their own agenda.”

Ah, I see.

Still, their behavior on the show itself was disgraceful. I don't know why the tabloids bothered to invent things when their actual behavior was bad enough. (And yes, that includes Darcey cooing to Jay that he's her number one. Yeah, he's mine, too, Darcey, but shut your yap. You're supposed to be a judge, not a fangirl. Fangirl on your own time.)
Monkseal
23-12-2015
I can only imagine and await how much this red button stuff is going to be blown out of all proportion by next series, when the actual footage is no longer available. If the Jay Fans haven't elevated it to Craig spitting on the floor and putting a hex on his entire family I'll be very disappointed.
Cadiva
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I can only imagine and await how much this red button stuff is going to be blown out of all proportion by next series, when the actual footage is no longer available. If the Jay Fans haven't elevated it to Craig spitting on the floor and putting a hex on his entire family I'll be very disappointed.”

Oh come on Monk, you can do better than that. A hex isn't enough, surely they'll have wished Craig a permanent role as the pantomime dame on the pier at Blackpool for perpetuity. Or possibly a lifetime's subscription to Sour Grapes and how to Perfect them darling in 13 easy weekly guides?
Monkseal
23-12-2015
I am fondly remembering the days of the Series 5 semi-final, where all the judges were asked who they wanted to be in the final, directly before the bottom 2 was announced and the dance-off held. This crummy red-button stuff could nevah.
teeswolf
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I can only imagine and await how much this red button stuff is going to be blown out of all proportion by next series, when the actual footage is no longer available. If the Jay Fans haven't elevated it to Craig spitting on the floor and putting a hex on his entire family I'll be very disappointed.”

Why would they? Jay won. Seems it's the non Jay fans who can't let this go.
Monkseal
23-12-2015
No it seems mostly seems to be Jay Fans complaining that Craig and Darcey ruined the entire series and should be sacked/sat on until they never express another opinion ever again.
teeswolf
23-12-2015
Not this Jaliona fan. I'm finding the aftermath very amusing. Well not the Aliona leaving bit.
Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“No it seems mostly seems to be Jay Fans complaining that Craig and Darcey ruined the entire series and should be sacked/sat on until they never express another opinion ever again.”

I guess we would never agree on the definition of "professionalism". Mine (for SCD) includes critique without getting personal and shutting up after the program is over. We are speaking about professional situations (like interviews in their roles of SCD judges), not conversations in the pubs.
Monkseal
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Olivia_P:
“I guess we would never agree on the definition of "professionalism". Mine (for SCD) includes critique without getting personal and shutting up after the program is over. We are speaking about professional situations (like interviews in their roles of SCD judges), not conversations in the pubs.”

If your criteria for professionalism on Strictly involves "shutting up after the programme is over" you should probably tell the programme that, given that they were the ones carrying out the interview.
MrEdgarFinchley
23-12-2015
I think the debate has now reached what is technically known as the rhubarb rhubarb phase.
Olivia_P
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“If your criteria for professionalism on Strictly involves "shutting up after the programme is over" you should probably tell the programme that, given that they were the ones carrying out the interview.”

Who "they"? I was speaking about the standards of professional behavior for judges.
Bitterpea
23-12-2015
It surprises me, given how many series the judges have done, that they are unaware that for the public it's more than just the dances we vote for. And the programme encourages that!! If the judges only want the public to vote purely on the dance and their expert opinion, to have no investment in the partnerships etc then the execs would need to do away with things like the VTs and ITT. Don't bother getting to know the couples at all. Have them turn up each week, announce to the audience what they're dancing, couples dance, gold paddles out, run credits...
Fred.
23-12-2015
Originally Posted by DeltaBlues:
“The point is, it's all well and good for us to discuss and debate and argue the merits of the winner and finalists after the event, but the judges should put a sock in it. They've had their say via their scores, when they're asked to mark each dance (not the person); after that it's over to the public and in the final, the public's say IS final!

I've never agreed with the tendency some of the judges have to say beforehand that they think X should get to the final and I don't agree that they should say, hint or intimate afterwards that they think Y should have won rather than Z. Their opportunity to express their opinion is, or should be, done via their judgement of each dance and no further. The whole concept of judging is/should be based on impartiality and lack of bias and given that throughout the show (if not in the final) they have the power to manipulate the result via their scoring and dance off choices, they should at least try to maintain the fiction of impartiality regardless of their private preferences. They get sufficiently financially rewarded to judge, it's not an unreasonable ask for them to behave professionally when doing so.

It shouldn't be beyond any of them to say "it's been a great final, any of them could have won it, we saw some wonderful dances, they all deserved to be here, in the second half Kellie and Georgia made a real fight of it but Jay was as consistent as ever" or similar. Prepare a sound bite for every eventuality - it shouldn't come as a shock with post-show red button coverage that at least one of them will be grabbed for an interview about the final and/or the series. The final should be a celebration of the last three months, it shouldn't leave a sour taste in the mouth thanks to certain judges being mardy grinches.”

Just so! Very sensible.

The Red Button programme always seems so badly prepared.

They'd obviously lined up the finalists in order - Katie first who'd already had time to see her family, then Georgia and Kellie who'd had time during the winners' photos and Anton's chat and finally Jay after he'd seen his family and come round enough to talk.

Why couldn't they have warned the judges that they all be interviewed - not just two! - so they could think about some sensible answers.

Those final Red Button judges' comments were almost only made in passing, but they ended up just giving the tabloid newspapers another stick to bash Strictly.
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