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Weather Watching - Enthusiasts Thread
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blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“OK then, I must be lying...

Why do you have reason to disbelieve? Without knowing the exact location of myself, you can't know for sure. There are all sorts of different situations that could cause the frost on my windscreen.”

Purely factual.

The only situation that could cause ice on your windscreen are an air temperature at or below 0C, where any water deposits freeze, and I have serious doubts as to whether that happened.

Not sure what part of the North West you are, but I've looked at several stations in that area, and the typical mimima overnight, was about 7 or 8 degrees.
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Purely factual.

The only situation that could cause ice on your windscreen are an air temperature at or below 0C, where any water deposits freeze, and I have serious doubts as to whether that happened.

Not sure what part of the North West you are, but I've looked at several stations in that area, and the typical mimima overnight, was about 7 or 8 degrees.”

Our garage is always a few degrees colder than outside, which probably helps. It wasn't fully frozen but it was enough that I had to scrape it off.
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“Our garage is always a few degrees colder than outside, which probably helps. It wasn't fully frozen but it was enough that I had to scrape it off.”

Sorry, but

Unless you've got some special refrigeration unit in there, your garage is not going to have an air temperature below freezing, while outside is several degrees above.
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Sorry, but

Unless you've got some special refrigeration unit in there, your garage is not going to have an air temperature below freezing, while outside is several degrees above.”

I don't know but put it this way, it can be cold enough in there that you can see your breath sometimes when you can't outside.
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“I don't know but put it this way, it can be cold enough in there that you can see your breath sometimes when you can't outside.”

Maybe it's haunted
mushymanrob
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“Our garage is always a few degrees colder than outside, which probably helps. It wasn't fully frozen but it was enough that I had to scrape it off.”

you had a frost on your windscreen in the garage?... c'mon.... do you know what frost is?..
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“you had a frost on your windscreen in the garage?... c'mon.... do you know what frost is?.. ”

Yes, the roof of our garage is notoriously awful, I've patched it up the best I can until we can get it fixed properly, so it does leak a bit. We'd taken the car to be washed last night as well so it's possible it was still wet in places going into the garage.
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“you had a frost on your windscreen in the garage?... c'mon.... do you know what frost is?.. ”

If people are going to make stuff up, this thread is not the place to do it. The facts are available to everyone and they will very quickly be found out, especially among posters who are meterologically knowledgeable.

The 6am temperatures in the North West can be seen here The lowest I can see is a 6C.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
Come on guys, give the fella a break! He's referring to yesterday, 22nd, and minimum air temperatures in Northern Ireland where he is were as low as 1.0 deg C in Castlederg (near Omagh) and 3.8 deg C Lough Fea near Cookstown. Both these are low enough to produce a ground frost in clear skies/low wind speeds as it was, including car roofs open to the air.

Leaving aside the indoors-outdoors-garage banter on this page, what he originally wrote yesterday i.e. :

Originally Posted by 1manonthebog:
“Currently 14c here in N.I and cloudy. I got up this morning to a temp of 4c and frost on the windscreen, it was certainly a shock to the system, first frost of the season.”

... is perfectly feasible, in fact highly likely in parts of N.I. yesterday morning. For comparison, my own minima this morning (we seem to be running a day behind the NW!) were: air 7.3C; grass 2.6 C - and the grass needs cutting which tends to keep it a bit on the high side.

Note to self: Cut the blooming grass this afternoon!
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Come on guys, give the fella a break! He's referring to yesterday, 22nd, and minimum air temperatures in Northern Ireland where he is were as low as 1.0 deg C in Castlederg (near Omagh) and 3.8 deg C Lough Fea near Cookstown. Both these are low enough to produce a ground frost in clear skies/low wind speeds as it was, including car roofs open to the air.

Leaving aside the indoors-outdoors-garage banter on this page, what he originally wrote i.e. :



... is perfectly feasible, in fact highly likely in parts of N.I. yesterday morning. For comparison, my own minima this morning (we seem to be running a day behind the NW!) were: air 7.3C; grass 2.6 C - and the grass needs cutting which tends to keep it a bit on the high side.

Note to self: Cut the blooming grass this afternoon! ”

Except we were referring to the poster Nakatomi, not the poster, One man on the bog.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Except we were referring to the poster Nakatomi, not the poster, One man on the bog.”

Have to confess I didn't analyze every post on this page so may have missed that, but... both you and mushymanrob appear to have cast doubt on what onemanontheblog said (on the previous page) and that's who I'm supporting.

I'll have a look at Nakatomi's claims shortly...
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Both you and mushymanrob cast doubt on what onemanontheblog said.

I'll have a look at Nakatomi's claims shortly... ”

I don't agree with his claims either. Not with +4C.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“I don't agree with his claims either. Not with +4C.”

Differences between grass and air minimum temperatures can be way more than 4 deg C, it all depends on the exact site and night time conditions, more so than than what region of the country it's in. And the ground minima are taken at 5 cm, so the actual surface (including car roofs if there's no wind) can be lower.

There were some good examples last night in widely varying locations:

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weath...mph&CEL=C&UD=0 (ground)

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weath...mph&CEL=C&UD=0 (air)

High Wycombe - air min 8 C, ground minimum 0 C
Kenley - air min 7, ground 1.
Thorney Island - air min 7, ground 1.
Even Heathrow - air min. 9, ground 4.
and Lerwick - air min 7, ground 1.

I sometimes see differences as high as some of those even here in my walled back garden (when the grass is shorter than it is now!). But it's impossible to confirm or refute Nakatomi's claim as it depends on exact location and site, whether he was in a clear skies area late in the night, and there aren't many stations in the North West who report grass minima.
Ads
23-09-2016
Beautiful warm, sunny day in London today. 22 degrees tomorrow which isn't bad at all for late September.
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Differences between grass and air minimum temperatures can be way more than 4 deg C, it all depends on the exact site and night time conditions, more so than than what region of the country it's in. And the ground minima are taken at 5 cm, so the actual surface (including car roofs if there's no wind) can be lower.

There were some good examples last night in widely varying locations:

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weath...mph&CEL=C&UD=0 (ground)

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weath...mph&CEL=C&UD=0 (air)

High Wycombe - air min 8 C, ground minimum 0 C
Kenley - air min 7, ground 1.
Thorney Island - air min 7, ground 1.
Even Heathrow - air min. 9, ground 4.
and Lerwick - air min 7, ground 1.

I sometimes see differences as high as some of those even here in my walled back garden (when the grass is shorter than it is now!). But it's impossible to confirm or refute Nakatomi's claim as it depends on exact location and site, whether he was in a clear skies area late in the night, and there aren't many stations in the North West who report grass minima.”

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that if Nakatomi is in the North West of England, there was frost on his car last night. No station in that area had a minima at ground level anywhere near zero.

I'm calling bullshit. You can believe what you like.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“I'm sorry, but I don't agree that if Nakatomi is in the North West of England, there was frost on his car last night. No station in that area had a minima at ground level anywhere near zero.

I'm calling bullshit. You can believe what you like.”

I don't believe anything, I have no idea and I won't unless he tells us more accurately than 'North West' where he is. Just pointing out that you can have bigger differences between ground/surface and air temperatures than was mentioned, that's all. 1manonthebog sounds plausible for yesterday in N.I. though.

And I finally managed to cut my grass! Current air temperature here 14.6, grass 9.3
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Well our windscreen was frosty but the car outside was fine, which makes me think it's probably a combination of the garage, the car being wet and the roof leaking anyway. Like I said, it wasn't hard or anything, quite slushy but I still had to clear it off.

If I wanted to make something up I'd make something more interesting up!

However today has been a surprise. It was quite sunny this morning going to the wedding but when we left to come home to get changed at about 7 I was surprised by just how bloody cold it was outside. It's very chilly.
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“I don't believe anything, I have no idea and I won't unless he tells us more accurately than 'North West' where he is. Just pointing out that you can have bigger differences between ground/surface and air temperatures than was mentioned, that's all. 1manonthebog sounds plausible for yesterday in N.I. though.

And I finally managed to cut my grass! Current air temperature here 14.6, grass 9.3”

We're not far from Frodsham. It can get pretty cold here even when the surrounding areas are warm.
Steffan_Leach
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“Freezing this morning here in the North West, I had to scrape the ice off the car. We're at a wedding today so hoping the weather stays dry as part of it will be outside. It could be very chilly I think though for those in dresses!

Highs of 16 today here, 18 tomorrow potentially but from Sunday onwards we're only seeing highs of about 15 and lows of 8, so very different indeed!”

I don't believe this at all either.. I live about 150m above sea level, and frost in September is almost unheard of here.. These Observations come from the Bingley Salmos Weather Station (nearest one to me) and that is about 260m above sea level:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B56...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B56...ew?usp=sharing

Overnight temperatures not even close to being a frost (temp needs to be at or just above freezing).

Nakatomi also claims that in her part of the north west she's getting moderately high temps during the day - it was also 16C here day, same as me. But for temperatures to then drop to near freezing level from the mid-teens in the course of one day - it just doesn't add up I don't know which part of the North West you're from, but either you live in some crazy microclimate in the middle of nowhere, or you live at the top of a mountain (and then walked down to the bottom during the day where it was warmer)...

BTW, I was out today in a t-shirt, and out tonight in just football shorts and a football shirt (I do footie training) and even before I started training I was fine..
It isn't cold....

Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Come on guys, give the fella a break! He's referring to yesterday, 22nd, and minimum air temperatures in Northern Ireland where he is were as low as 1.0 deg C in Castlederg (near Omagh) and 3.8 deg C Lough Fea near Cookstown. Both these are low enough to produce a ground frost in clear skies/low wind speeds as it was, including car roofs open to the air.

Leaving aside the indoors-outdoors-garage banter on this page, what he originally wrote yesterday i.e. :



... is perfectly feasible, in fact highly likely in parts of N.I. yesterday morning. For comparison, my own minima this morning (we seem to be running a day behind the NW!) were: air 7.3C; grass 2.6 C - and the grass needs cutting which tends to keep it a bit on the high side.

Note to self: Cut the blooming grass this afternoon! ”

I don't understand this one either...

Firstly, you live in the far South of the UK where it barely gets cold, I thought frosts were quite rare down there....

How can you measure the temperature of grass????

And, if the grass is really that cold, how is it still growing if it's nearly at freezing point??
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Steffan_Leach:
“I don't believe this at all either.. I live about 150m above sea level, and frost in September is almost unheard of here.. These Observations come from the Bingley Salmos Weather Station (nearest one to me) and that is about 260m above sea level:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B56...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B56...ew?usp=sharing

Overnight temperatures not even close to being a frost (temp needs to be at or just above freezing).

Nakatomi also claims that in her part of the north west she's getting moderately high temps during the day - it was also 16C here day, same as me. But for temperatures to then drop to near freezing level from the mid-teens in the course of one day - it just doesn't add up I don't know which part of the North West you're from, but either you live in some crazy microclimate in the middle of nowhere, or you live at the top of a mountain (and then walked down to the bottom during the day where it was warmer)...

BTW, I was out today in a t-shirt, and out tonight in just football shorts and a football shirt (I do footie training) and even before I started training I was fine..
It isn't cold....



I don't understand this one either...

Firstly, you live in the far South of the UK where it barely gets cold, I thought frosts were quite rare down there....

How can you measure the temperature of grass????

And, if the grass is really that cold, how is it still growing if it's nearly at freezing point??”

First of all, I'm a him.

Secondly, I just said we were predicted those highs, not that we actually got them. I don't think we got above about 10 here yesterday, probably about 12 or so today.

Anyway, never mind. You don't believe me, just move on, no need to do a character assassination.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Steffan_Leach:
“I don't believe this at all either..
I don't understand this one either...

Firstly, you live in the far South of the UK where it barely gets cold, I thought frosts were quite rare down there....

How can you measure the temperature of grass????

And, if the grass is really that cold, how is it still growing if it's nearly at freezing point??”

Because it's only that cold (on the ground) on clear still nights with light wind and as soon as the sun rises, so does the ground/grass/car roof temperature. The air temperature measured at the standard 1.25 to 2 metres above the ground can be much higher at night. Have a read of this:

http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/26

"The difference between the two levels can be considerable: On still, clear nights, with air of a low humidity content, 5 degC or more is not uncommon."

Car windscreens can be even colder than 'official' grass or concrete surfaces - you must have occasionally noticed a frost on car windscreens or roofs when there's no frost anywhere else? If not, look out for it on cars parked overnight well away from buildings or trees, as the autumn and winter develop. It will happen at some point.
Steffan_Leach
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“We're not far from Frodsham. It can get pretty cold here even when the surrounding areas are warm.”

Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“First of all, I'm a him.

Secondly, I just said we were predicted those highs, not that we actually got them. I don't think we got above about 10 here yesterday, probably about 12 or so today.

Anyway, never mind. You don't believe me, just move on, no need to do a character assassination.”

And a quick google search of "Frodsham" reveals that the weather is currently 13C at 11:00pm tonight... Ive even done a screenshot at this very moment to prove it.

https://goo.gl/photos/FeuaA2cJnTjDddkW6

Starting to think you are spinning us a yarn.....
Nakatomi
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Steffan_Leach:
“And a quick google search of "Frodsham" reveals that the weather is currently 13C at 11:00pm tonight... Ive even done a screenshot at this very moment to prove it.

https://goo.gl/photos/FeuaA2cJnTjDddkW6

Starting to think you are spinning us a yarn.....”

Did I say Frodsham? I said we're *near* Frodsham.

Our car thermometer on the drive is saying it's currently 9c and our one in the shed says 10c, so I wouldn't go off the internet. You do realise that you can get wildly different temperature variations in the same town dependent on all sorts of factors, don't you?

As I said, just leave it. I don't know why you think I'd lie about this - what would be the point?
blueblade
23-09-2016
Originally Posted by Steffan_Leach:
“And a quick google search of "Frodsham" reveals that the weather is currently 13C at 11:00pm tonight... Ive even done a screenshot at this very moment to prove it.

https://goo.gl/photos/FeuaA2cJnTjDddkW6

Starting to think you are spinning us a yarn.....”

Yeah, somebody's 'avin a larf methinks. Just found the current weather for Frodsham here which shows a minimum overnight temperature last night of 53F - which is 11.67C. Way too warm for any frost.

In fact the post of the 6am temperatures at various stations in the North West of England showed that stations near to the coast stayed in double figures overnight, and Frodsham's positioning is consistent with that.
d'@ve
23-09-2016
The nearest official stations to Frodsham are Rostherne (minimum air temp. last night 7.6 C) and Hawarden (minimum air temp 6.0 C). I'm not getting into the argument with Nakatomi except to say places in between could feasibly have had different air minima ( + or - ) and different ground or car roof minima. It was undoubtedly clear in the early morning at both sites, with light winds (Rostherne 4mph at 10m at 7 am, much less or calm at the ground).
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