I was actually being ironic, I understood your "point" well. You just used a non argument in a long rambling post to try to justify your dislike for the Cliftons. And like another FM said, Joanne is a world champion, anything but mediocre.

The ballroom dance world is very mixed internationally. Fabia and Vincent, for example, both Italian, but danced for England. Joanne Leunis and Michael come from Belgium and Hungary respectively, but danced for England.

Neil Jones -current British pro Latin chmp - has a Ukrainian partner, now wife.

Joanne Clifton danced with an Italian; Kevin with various partners, including Anna Melnikova from Russia.

In other words, professional dancers seldom have a partner of the same nationality, and even more seldom represent the country either of them is from!

Yes, it might seem crazy, but dancers choose the best partner regardless of Nationality, and dance for the country that offers them the best opportunities; they rarely, VERY rarely think in terms of being "homegrown".

I agree with many of the above, and do not for one minute subscribe to the "homegrown" dancers as being inspirational. (They may well be, but why not other dancers too).

I'd hardly call Joanne mediocre, given that she is by far the most successful competitive dancer on Strictly at the moment.

You seem to be discussing an event which hasn't happened and is far from happening. For example, my understanding was that Neil And Ekaterina Jones (50% home grown) were both quite keen to be pros on Strictly, but as World Amateur Champions and World Pro Finalists, and therefore well above the current pros in achievement, they were not offered a place.

It's an entertainment show, not a ballroom dance show.

The BBC will try to achieve a balance between, ability, teaching skills and personality. (err.. looks, probably come into it a bit too).
No point having a dancer who is technically brilliant, but has no personality, or can't teach.
The pros must also be able to speak English well enough to communicate.

I don't see it as a problem.
Dancers come and go.
Those that stay have qualities appreciated by both the public, the amateurs and the BBC.
Nationality doesn't really come into the equation.

Love the foreign dancers on the show and Artem and Iveta are my all time favourites. However...Do want to see more home grown talent on the show as long as they are good enough.

Given the standard of dancing on Strictly there is definitely good enough home grown talent. The idea that we don't have dancers as good as the Strictly Pros, hardly at the peak of their profession, is bizarre to say the least. In fact most of the very best dancers on Strictly (in terms of competitive achievement) were home grown (Karen Hardy, Matthew Cutler, Ian Waite, Hazel Newberry, Kylie Jones, Paul Killick, Joanne Clifton, Darren Bennett).

However you will see that some of those did not last long. Some left of their own accord, and some were maybe dropped. As Doghouse Riley says the criteria for selecting pro dancers on Strictly are not primarily about dancing talent. I don't think they are even based on teaching skill. My guess is that it is about viewer appeal (looks and personality) and I have to say that reading this forum often supports that assumption. Also Burn the Floor or some show experience comes into it.

So no, I don't think home grown talent would lower the standard of dancing. But I don't think producers are likely to change the current balance which seems to work in terms of viewer appeal.

Agree

But think it's more than dancing, viewer appeal and teaching ability.

To be successful Strictly needs a wide variety of contestants to appeal to a wide audience to keep the viewing figures up. The Saturday AND Sunday shows are top of the viewing figures and even ITT is high up on the viewing figures for BBC2.

So they need Pros who potential celebrities would be happy to work with.

Can see in recent years contestants have enjoyed working with Anton, for example, and think I read one or two would only do Stictly if they could work with him. If so, Strictly will keep Anton as long as he wants to stay (and he's popular with many viewers).

Paranoid much? Your world seems to revolve around the Cliftons; mine is not.
I don't have to justify my "dislike" (your word, not mine) for the Cliftons to anyone (if it is the only thing you saw - not my problem). In the quoted SCD spat, two commentators were discussing the Strictly Christmas and Harry's win. One person was happy for Harry but criticized Joanne; another one defended Joanne using a very strange argument that looked like an inadvertently backhanded compliment to Joanne. I read their exchange and quoted here.
The OP was about international stars leaving the show and the search for their replacement. I doubt SCD will be able to find home-grown replacement of the same caliber to fill in Artem's, Aliona's, Kristina's shoes (I don't think Ola is as outstanding as those three, so she can easily be replaced).
The OP was also about the chances of foreign-born professionals for winning a SCD championship, if the SCD producers have decided that it is time to crown home-grown dancers, whether they deserve it or not. I wonder if this season's aggressive promotion of a certain home -grown dancer, despite his celebrity partner's unpopularity, is an indicator of the new trend.

[quote=Olivia_P;80906478. I doubt SCD will be able to find home-grown replacement of the same caliber to fill in Artem's, Aliona's, Kristina's shoes (I don't think Ola is as outstanding as those three, so she can easily be replaced).
/QUOTE]

I can actually think of many British dancers that easily match or better the standard of the above mentioned. Artem, Aliona and Kristina as mentioned, are nice enough dancers as professionals on the show, but I would not refer to them as outstanding. Nowhere near.
A lot of the top British still compete of course and want to achieve their own goals in the world of dance, which is what they have been working towards all their life.

I don't think the pros place of birth has any weight in when they're hired. That's the lowest qualification they look for. The dance world is completely mixed with all kinds of nationalities, and they mix beautifully on Strictly.

As for the 'Cliftons', they all are unique talented individuals, all with their own strengths, whom Strictly is lucky to have among their other talented pros.

I genuinely don't care where a pro comes from and I don't think many people do. Yes, the Kevin from Grimsby tag line a few years ago was annoying, but that didn't stick and it certainly wasn't his fault. (As an aside, I sometimes wonder if that was partly the reason James got a stick up his backside about the Cliftons)

But kudos on a ~creative way to start a new Cliftons Bad thread, I guess.

Yes, "my world revolves around the Cliftons"...*endless lolz*
(if only people used the search function before sprouting the most inaccurate claims...)


^^this^^ but no kudos though

How many British pros have there been on SCD over the years in comparison to non-British? I think you'll find that overseas talent outweighs British. As others have said this is another Clifton bashing thread. Pointless.

14 British (including 1 for one series plus Jo who I'm not sure if to count for 1 or 2 series)
30 foreign pro's (including 10 of them for one series only)

Erm....

We are in the EU, so Pro Dancers from many countries have the absolute right to work here, with no restrictions.
Plus others are married to, or partners of, EU citizens

Of the last series / Xmas special

British Born
Kevin, Joanne, Anton, Robin

EU born - so have the absolute right to work in the UK
Tristan, Aljaz, Giovanni, Ola

Possible British/ EU Residence by marriage
Brendan, Aliona, Karen, Natalie (engaged to a Brit), Janette (engaged to Aljaz)

Non EU (so would need a work permit)
Oti, Pasha, Gleb, Kristina

So Only 4 out of 16 definitely could be classed as "imported" as the other 12 have the right to work in the UK (although Pasha and Kristina are "dating" Brits, so again their immigration status might be a unclear)

Unfortunately Gordon Brown came a cropper in 2010, with his phrase "British jobs for British workers" which is not legal - as all EU residents have the right to work in the UK - so in the recent past the following Pro's have also all had the legal right to work on Strictly

Flavia (Italian)
Vincent (Italian)
Iveta (Lithuania)
Katya (Lithuania)
Trent (Married to a Slovenian)
Camilla (Danish)
Erin (married to a Brit)

Reaction typical of the Clifton brigade: not a hint of an original thought.
Typical method: take somebody else's point out of context, twist it, infuse it with one's own paranoia and then dismiss what you yourself created.

Steve, that's exactly what the DM reader pointed out: too many non-British-born dancers. She or he seemed to have a problem with that; I don't. The same reader suggested supporting the so-called "home-grown talent". Who does it leave us with?
Quoting from your comment: Kevin, Joanne, Anton, Robin.

Do I see problem with this latter line-up? Yes. But the commentator that I quoted seems to prefer it to the other, "foreign" people on your list, those on the current SCD roster. She or he did not discuss HIRING foreign-born dancers, but opposed ALLOWING THEM TO WIN.

I don't distinguish between British-born and foreign-born dancers. What matters to me is SCD professionals' dancing and choreographing skills, and I found many SCD foreign-born dancers more interesting than the British ones. I happen to like Neil who is rumored to be joining SCD next year but I don't think his Britishness should give him any advantage in the next season's battle for the Glitterball.

Some people on this thread interpreted my critique of the DM commentators (who could not agree on Joanne) as my own critique of the Cliftons, and either dismissed my opinion or perverted it and infused it with their own nastiness. It's their choice: they have every right to go bananas on this or any other forum.

I don't think it crazy at all. It is normal that aesthetic/professional considerations should trump any factors irrelevant to dancing.

But the OP conversation was not about dancing competitions. As we know, most of the SCD winners were paired with "foreign" professionals (if I remember correctly, only Darren was British-born). Two DM commentators whom I quoted argued about SCD and the Strictly Christmas trophies, and one of them came up with the patriotic nonsense about home-grown talent.

I am not part of the Clifton brigade you i*******s.

Matt Cutler and Karen Hardy were both 'British-born'. So number of British-born pro winners is probably in proportion to number of British dancers. (In addition some British born dancers have a good record of getting their partners through to later rounds: Ian Waite, James Jordan). Anyway, surely this all depends to a large extent on the partner you get allocated?

By your logic, the US born dancers haven't had any winners and so they shouldn't be included. Obviously that would be a daft conclusion to come to.

Flavia also lived in the UK since she was an infant.

I think the only issue that might be alleviated by adding other British born professionals to the mix, is the apparent heavy emphasis on the Cliftons.

Other than that, there are seven with English as a first language. Whilst the rest put most brits to shame with their language skills.

Only one active pro this year was a British born Clifton.

True, but Jo for all she did not have a partner was still in the opening credits and heavily involved in ITT. That they also featured (probably for practical reasons) Kevin & Karen doing demonstrations & included Ma & Pa Clifton for Blackpool, it felt like overkill.