In the final I think it is is advantageous to go on first as voting lines open earlier. In earlier rounds it is advantageous to go on later.

I don't think Helen said anything untoward. I don't think it is worth trying to 'fix' things either, except maybe to try keep a balance of male and female celebs in the final. But ultimately the viewer vote is always going to triumph.

I don't think Helen was trying to be controversial at all - she has more class than that.
What she said was twisted by the tabloids - what is new about that?

I think the first round was more about keeping the 2 quicksteps apart than anything else - and they'd not start with a rumba. Of course, this meant they crashed into 2 Charleston's in the final round after a similar based Showdance - but just highlights the daftness of the dance picks and the constraints of what they were allowed to use.

2 Quicksteps? It may not say much for Kellie's 40 scoring Tango that you thought it was a Quickstep

Katie and Anton had a quickstep in round one as well

18 Instances of undermining Jay there...

Too many people believe the newspaper and think that if something is in six or a dozen newspaper then that proves it is true even though they are all just quoting each other and perhaps twisting to make more sensational (i.e. a 'better story')

Alesha was in the first dance-off series but point taken. I actually think the dance-off works on the whole - as this series the only BS elimination was Helen whilst there were a few people in the DO who shouldn't have been.

I think there are agenda but they only get you so far I'm pretty convinced that Ashley was hobbled in series eleven - by ropey themes - because the producers wanted a female winner - the all female finale wasn't an accident. I'm not sure there was an agenda to get Abbey the win though although I do think that her gapping in her admittedly pretty good QS was totally overlooked. On the other hand - people tend to react against anyone they don't like being over-marked - no matter what the judges say it's pretty obvious that neither Lisa Snowden or Kellie Bright were ever getting the glitterball and I think sometimes that the judges over-mark contestants that they love but the public doesn't - I'm not sure if this is just a reaction against them not perceived by the judges to being appreciated enough i.e a wrist slap to the public, an attempt to reassure the couple in question or a blatant but misguided attempt to influence the public or in some cases an attempt to hike them up the leaderboard to keep them safe. I still wonder if the semi-final in series six was a deliberate attempt to get rid of Tom Chambers which if it was backfired spectacularly.

Sadly it's nothing new - I distinctively remember Craig on ITT bitching about Darren Gough winning series three and saying his latin was rubbish. Claudia basically told him the guy had won get over it.

Gah, of course <slaps forehead>

One of my main issues with the dance off is that it pushes the danger-zone up a couple of places because rather than just having to keep the bottom couple safe (if you're so inclined) by lifting them off the bottom - they have to be hauled off the bottom, out of the second to bottom slot and up into at least third from bottom.

This isn't so much of a problem in the early days when the leader board is effectively operating a 2 league system and the top half virtually automatically protected but when it gets to half way the dance off itself is basically making even the 4th and 5th places vunerable.

Most times I don't think it matters that much - but this series I retain the right to be peeved (and will be holding onto it for years ) that l was denied a final with Helen in it. Whether she would have won or not doesn't matter - it missed her, in my opinion,

Agree strongly about Helen and am sure others would say the same about Anita - and I'm a Jay followed by Georgia fan. It is real problem once you get down to the Final few.

Len, in particular does seem to get super-grumpy if he thinks the voters are ignoring his 'advice' - and Craig isn't far behind.

Which is all well and good, but in the week Helen left, Len scored with precisely 2 marks for the 6 couples left - and 5 of those were the same. According to Len, the only person he didn't really want to see leave was Jay. All the rest <shrug> they were all pretty much of a muchness. If he can't rank the other 5 he really has to bite the bullet when the voters are forced to do it for him.

The series 6 semi-final was hilarious - if it was a deliberate plan it was more Baldrick than Blackadder .

You'd be forgiven for forgetting the Alesha dance-off; there were only four couples left when she hit the bottom two (and Matt DA had that major woobie).

We may think we're hard done by now, still having a dance-off in the semi-final but at least there are five couples left. Series five, six and seven still had a dance-off with four couples left and both five and six at least tried (and succeeded in five's case) to have a dance-off with three couples left which I think was utterly ridiculous. Still very much dislike the dance-off in principle though when there are only a few couples left (I'd actually bin it completely). Especially with leaderboard ties. Score properly you eejits! If there are only five/six couples left, surely you can split them! This may not have saved Helen but my point still stands.

Helen wouldn't have won (I think I can state that with impunity ). Not a chance. But I still think she should have been in the final and that the final would have been better with her there.

That's very generous of Helen , she was knobbled from the start of that week, who the hell thought anyone would be able to dance a paso to " at the end of the day "? Throw in 20 backing dancers a mud coloured dress and the highest scoring dancer up until then was second to last on the leaderboard.
I was and remain peeved that she left when she did, the semi final and final missed her a lot, we as viewers missed out on some really lovely dances from her.

Imagine if she had had Anita's theming and music for her paso, the 10 would have been being thrown at her.

Do agree that Ashley was given some daft themes - though I actually liked the Cowboy Paso - but he was even more restricted by Hollyoaks not cutting him any slack.

Helen was also given some daft themes and music - can't think why, it didn't create 'drama' for me - and ended up hobbling a good dancer

Can see that the judges get grumpy when their 'advice' isn't taken or even if they over-score to reassure a favourite ( though they shouldn't )

But I can't see why the BBC would worry about a female winner, or even an all female final. (Or even why the PTB would worry about Tom Chambers' chances of getting to the Final)

Why should the BBC care who wins?

They never do anything in particular with the winner. Even the Tour isn't organised by the BBC.

It's not like the X-Factor where there's records to sell and money to be made

I don't think they care who wins, as such - but I do think they like the gender balance to be fairly even. Two male or female winners in a row seems to be the most they find acceptable

By series three, they were obviously panicking about ever getting a male winner so we had the whole 'it's harder for boys' and blokey-bloke theme.

I guess, when it comes to celebrity recruitment time it's easier if both sexes feel they have an equal shot at the title. Getting male celebs for series 14 might be harder than it seems to be even now if all the previous 13 had been won by the female celebs.

I think the DO adds to the tension...granted not exactly what you want if your fave is involved (!) but if it was just last place that went it would be a bit dull imo. Plus you can get to the final even if you have been in multiple DO'S as kellie and last year simon have proved. Helen was just unlucky that the week she went she was up against georgia...and doing a less favourable dance. Had it been the week before, helen would have survived against anyone.
I do think there have been times in the past, maybe not so much this series...where certain celebs have been 'helped' to stay out of DO trouble by judges scores, as ola said. And quite why they took against tom chambers I'm not sure....but he seemed to be their 'sacrificial lamb' that year and it came back to bite them.

They didn't do jay many favours in the final though...although other factors like dance choice and running order came in to play too...
Out of the last 9 celebs who have reached the last three (last 3 years), SEVEN of them have been female. It does seem that it is either harder for the male (it is in certain dances for sure!) OR there have been a lot more male duffers than females recently!

Without actually checking, I think there are just more male duffers. As viewers we tend to be a bit surprised when a fit, young female contestant can't dance (thinking of Rachel Riley) and pleasantly surprised when a male contestant can.

It's my perception that men are less likely to have taken dance classes as youngsters and more likely to feel self conscious about expressing themselves through dance. I dunno why, but perhaps a lot of men feel being graceful isn't very manly. If only they realised how attractive it is to women when a man can move well....

It's interesting that of the 6 male winners, 3 were sportsmen (with 2 as runners up - or 3 if you count Matt Baker) but only Denise Lewis as runner up flies the flag for sportswomen.

So it does seem that being a sportsman is an advantage - and not just with Len

Now if only there was some kind of Strictly Statto* to tell us whether being a sportsman really is an advantage for the men or if they have just been a mainstay of the roster and the proportion is about right. Are there 5 Iwan's for every Ramps? And have we actually seen very many sportswomen take part? (Denise, Jade, Martina Hingis..er... Judy Murray ...there must be more )

*sorry, I don't know how to put out the batcall

Pendledrama and Gabby Logan at a push?

Maybe the producers' manipulations that have been so well detailed in this thread are meant to ensure that the final stages have a good mix of celebs/pros so that they can put on a good show that will interest a wide audience.

Helen was definitely done wrong--I wonder if it was due to her lacking in the popular vote? Maybe they wanted to get rid of her because she wasn't appealing to the general audience? And similarly, imagine if Anita had had a salsa song for her salsa, she wouldn't have got 10s, but she might've survived.

In the end the producers got a final with the obvious public favorite, a capable and pretty young woman with a newbie pro, a trouper guaranteed to put on a show with her British pro, and the year of Anton.

Bib true. Though the week before she was too of the leaderboard so she was "safe" anyway.



Or even out of the last 16 finalists (4 series), only 4 have been male, though two of them have been the winners.