Have been reading this little side conversation with interest, and Just to put my view into things as it were, I'm under the impression that the cybermen we have now are supposed to be this universe's cybermen and that were supposed to have been ever since they stopped showing them with the cybus logo and slightly redesigned them. That's why we see them all over the universe and they seem to be known.

Besides, I think people who constantly moan about 'cybusmen vs mondasmen' as it were get to hung up on their new who introductory story and seem to forget that had RTD written a story with our universe cybermen in their first new who outing they would still have wanted to update them for these times, like they have with many of the returning alien races, and would still have come up with the same design they did (just minus the cybus logo) and so today they would still look exactly the same expect the only difference would be we'd know for sure they were the latest incarnation of 'our universe' cybermen instead of being unsure.

What I'm saying is that I don't believe the little detail of whether or not they came from Mondas or a parallel world in their first story had any bearing on their new who updated design, and that, no disrespect to classic who fans, but I feel they were updated for a reason and that anyone hoping to see today's cybermen face off or join forces with a man in a silver suit with a tin foil hat will likely be waiting a very long time. Could see possibly some of the 80's type design's possibly popping up in the background of an asylum of the daleks type story for cybermen (even though still unlikely given that dalek designs don't vary as much as cybermen one's), but I doubt they'd want to use any old cybermen designs prominently in these days of hdtv's. Even in 2005 it would have looked a bit laughable, let alone now.

As I say, I don't aim to disrespect any Classic who fans love of those old designs, I just feel I'm being realistic about why they haven't been used and why I feel they likely won't be used. I may be proven wrong in future, and if I am then fair enough. I'm just commenting on how I see things so far based on the current evidence and my own feelings.

An 80's Cyberman head appeared in the Episode "Dalek" as an exhibit in a museum.
As to Cybus or Mondas Cybermen, IMO they are two separate races. The Cybus were created by a human in a paralell word, in which universe Mondas never existed. In our "real" world, Mondas did exist hence our Cybermen are Mondas Cybermen.

It wasn't the design that was a problem for me. I always understood that a redesign would be required for 2006.

The big problem was the new concept. The original Cybermen were basically automated corpses, but this new idea of scooped-out brains in completely steel bodies didn't sit right with me. Although Torchwood retconned that by saying the later conversions (such as Ianto's girlfriend) were augmented flesh and blood.

Fair enough. To be honest, of the classic who I've seen, I've not actually seen any cyberman stories, and only have pictures i've seen as a reference, so I didn't know about the body/brain difference (the 80's one's seem to look rather robotic from what i've seen).

To me personally, perhaps it's just because I was introduced to the Cybermen with new who, but I prefer the brain idea. It seems more elegant only taking the important part of the body that they need rather than the whole thing.

To me though, I don't find it a particularly big deal either way. As I said, I feel if the new who Cybermen were supposed to be the Mondas cybermen, they still would have had the same design team and come up with the same new design for them, so design wise, you'd probably have never seen the difference in new who anyway. Also as you said they've since shown whole bodies being used to save time anyway.

I can get that if a person is of a certain age or just a younger person who saw Classic who before new who, and had that as a strict idea of how a Cyberman should be, then they might be put out by the differences, but to me a cyberman is a cyberman and I simply don't understand the fuss.

My problem isn't the upgraded design, but the thing which made the Cyberman, Cyberman is you could still tell there were human, and had that level of cunning as well.

The problem with the new Cyberman is they are robots, they may have the name but they are robots.

If I remember correctly, the original idea for the Cybermen was that they had started out as humanoid (their planet was a twin of Earth) but for whatever reason, they started to replace flesh and bone with cybernetics until eventually replacing everything with perhaps the exception of their brain.

i wasn't thinking about the design of the Cybermen when I said it could be fun to see the two types "face off". When I said that I assumed that, if they ever did play the Mondas Cybermen card, they'd be redesigned/upgraded too. The 80s Cybermen design was good for the time, but not for today's audience.

My comment was not about nostalgia for the old design. That two types exist means there is potential there for a good, "big" Cybermen story.

The presence or abesnce of the Cybus logo is not an indicator either way as you could also easily imagine that later generations of the Cybus Cybermen would ditch it as an unnecessary embellishment as they further "improved" themselves. It's not like they'd be emotionally attached to it!

So latest B.S rumors or otherwise from GB(all from one poster)


-- Matt Smith left earler than BBCWW wanted because he hated doing the promotional duties

-- Moffat Cast PC against everybodys wishes...(Techincally not possible) LOL

-- Clara merchandising is poision

-- They are waiting to a younger doctor is cast to start making more merchandise.

If Matt hated doing promotional stuff, he's a better actor than I thought seeing as how he appeared to be generally having a ball.

Still, really need to join GB sometime if they've got people with such amazing insider knowledge.

Orrrrrr....maybe I'll give it a miss.