DS Forums

 
 

International Cricket 2016


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-06-2016, 16:50
davethecue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sunny North
Posts: 8,728
With the skipper injured, JB is back on the field. Can't have had much of a rest
davethecue is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 11-06-2016, 16:52
Darren Lethem
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hull - UK City of Culture
Posts: 27,237
I wouldn't be surprised if the usual suspects came on calling for Vince to be dropped too. Certainly not for me. Far too early
Darren Lethem is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 16:56
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
I wouldn't be surprised if the usual suspects came on calling for Vince to be dropped too. Certainly not for me. Far too early
yeah he should really get at least one more series
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:02
jcafcw
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,442
Surely the point of a team game is that when one of the team is going through a bad run then the other players carry the performance over. All players go through bad runs. I think that a lot of the calls for dropping players are media driven.

We talk about dropping the likes of Compton or Vince but who is there to replace them?

To put this into context my football team, AFC Wimbledon, after losing to 2-1 to Stevenage and going eight games without a win and sitting lower mid table had some of our fans calling for our manager's head. We kept him on, had a good second half of a season and got promoted.
jcafcw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:10
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
I wouldn't be surprised if the usual suspects came on calling for Vince to be dropped too. Certainly not for me. Far too early
They should give him another go, but there's no wrong in saying he's been hugely disappointing.
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:12
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
I wouldn't be surprised if the usual suspects came on calling for Vince to be dropped too. Certainly not for me. Far too early
The difference for Vince was that he was not even in form when picked.
So there is likely a certain determination by selectors to stick with him.

Me, I am as ever bemused how he even got in the side, the glimmering of international standard being ever so faint.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:13
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
Surely the point of a team game is that when one of the team is going through a bad run then the other players carry the performance over. All players go through bad runs. I think that a lot of the calls for dropping players are media driven.

We talk about dropping the likes of Compton or Vince but who is there to replace them?

To put this into context my football team, AFC Wimbledon, after losing to 2-1 to Stevenage and going eight games without a win and sitting lower mid table had some of our fans calling for our manager's head. We kept him on, had a good second half of a season and got promoted.
compton has looked unconvincing for almost all his england career , even when he got the back to back hundreds against NZ they were pretty scrappy

i would counter your opening point by saying that surely its the responsibility of the selectors and coaches to put the best XI possible on the pitch and not just keep picking someone who is underperforming

lastly, a manager is very different to a player
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:17
jcafcw
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,442
compton has looked unconvincing for almost all his england career , even when he got the back to back hundreds against NZ they were pretty scrappy

i would counter your opening point by saying that surely its the responsibility of the selectors and coaches to put the best XI possible on the pitch and not just keep picking someone who is underperforming

lastly, a manager is very different to a player
If you look at the England football team we are starting with Kane and Rooney. But if they fail then we have Vardy, Sturridge and Rashford to step in.

I am not too clued up on the county scene outside Surrey so who do we have waiting in the wings to replace the likes of Compton and Vince. It is one thing to say drop them but who can we replace them with who will be demonstratively better?
jcafcw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:20
hatpeg
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,986
Compton has failed to get a 50 in his last 18 Innings.
He has shown no form at all this season, and I think the problem is in his head.
Never rated him and he has lived up to my expectations.

I would be surprised if he plays another Test this summer.

Vince deserves longer as he can be a decent batsman, and has a better temperament.

Westley from Essex would be worth a try, to replace Compton.
hatpeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:22
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
If you look at the England football team we are starting with Kane and Rooney. But if they fail then we have Vardy, Sturridge and Rashford to step in.

I am not too clued up on the county scene outside Surrey so who do we have waiting in the wings to replace the likes of Compton and Vince. It is one thing to say drop them but who can we replace them with who will be demonstratively better?
scott borthwick who scored almost 1300 runs in the county championship last year at #3 and is averaging over 70 this year in first class cricket

james hildreth who scored almost 1400 runs in the county championship last year and is averaging over 60 in first class cricket this year

you have the option of promoting bairstow and bringing back buttler to keep

mark stoneman is having a decent year and was meant to be on the fringes last year, and you have a young guy like bell-drummond who is having a great year even tho i think its too early for him

edit : just to add that since compton was recalled he is averaging under 25 with just one fifty, i dont think it would be too hard to be "demonstratively better" than that
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:31
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
Surely the point of a team game is that when one of the team is going through a bad run then the other players carry the performance over. All players go through bad runs. I think that a lot of the calls for dropping players are media driven.

We talk about dropping the likes of Compton or Vince but who is there to replace them?

To put this into context my football team, AFC Wimbledon, after losing to 2-1 to Stevenage and going eight games without a win and sitting lower mid table had some of our fans calling for our manager's head. We kept him on, had a good second half of a season and got promoted.
Continuity is fine, and it's much better than the way we used to chop and change, but there has to come a time when you say enough-is-enough. Compton doesn't average over 30 in 16 Tests now, that's a good run of Tests, and a poor run of results.

Scott Borthwick has scored tons of runs for Durham at 3, also gives us a bit of a leg-spin option (yet TBH that shouldn't really be much of a factor, he's just done better with the bat then everyone else at 3). In the end where does it stop being "fair" to carry on with Compo, and unfair to not give people like Robson and Borthwick who are churning out the runs in the Championship.

Sam Robson was only giving 7 matches, but his record is better than Straigtouttas, he clearly wasn't shown the loyalty. Should be said though, 7 isn't a bad run either. Ballance's record is infinitely better, but he seems to have forgotten how to cricket.
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:39
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
scott borthwick who scored almost 1300 runs in the county championship last year at #3 and is averaging over 70 this year in first class cricket

james hildreth who scored almost 1400 runs in the county championship last year and is averaging over 60 in first class cricket this year

you have the option of promoting bairstow and bringing back buttler to keep

mark stoneman is having a decent year and was meant to be on the fringes last year, and you have a young guy like bell-drummond who is having a great year even tho i think its too early for him

edit : just to add that since compton was recalled he is averaging under 25 with just one fifty, i dont think it would be too hard to be "demonstratively better" than that
You've said a lot of what I've said afterwards. On Bell-Drummond, I think he will play for England many times, but this is his first break-out season, I wouldn't mind him getting a run-out in limited-overs, but not Tests against the likes of Amir.

There are a few encouraging youngsters around, Joe Clarke, Kohler-Cadmore from Worcs, Burnham from Durham are very good too.

Oh, and I've given up on my HildyforEngland stance, it's been almost a decade of hitting my head against a brick wall, which is probably why my posting is so crap.
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:43
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
You've said a lot of what I've said afterwards. On Bell-Drummond, I think he will play for England many times, but this is his first break-out season, I wouldn't mind him getting a run-out in limited-overs, but not Tests against the likes of Amir.

There are a few encouraging youngsters around, Joe Clarke, Kohler-Cadmore from Worcs, Burnham from Durham are very good too.

Oh, and I've given up on my HildyforEngland stance, it's been almost a decade of hitting my head against a brick wall, which is probably why my posting is so crap.
i haven't seen alot of him but what i have seen of bell-drummond he looks like a real talent, spoken of fairly highly by a few pundits as well. he is probably at least a year away from playing test cricket and whilst i agree maybe introducing him via one-dayers would be a good move its probably harder to get a spot as a batsman in the one day team than the test team atm
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 17:54
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
i haven't seen alot of him but what i have seen of bell-drummond he looks like a real talent, spoken of fairly highly by a few pundits as well. he is probably at least a year away from playing test cricket and whilst i agree maybe introducing him via one-dayers would be a good move its probably harder to get a spot as a batsman in the one day team than the test team atm
Yeah, good point about the one-dayers, I keep forgetting we're kinda good at them nowadays, after so many years
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:19
davethecue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sunny North
Posts: 8,728
Wasn't particularly worried about Cook's absence but Pradeep has just bowled his 3rd victim

Hales , not for the first time this summer, holding things together

Finn comes out as nightwatchman to protect Moeen
davethecue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:21
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
Wasn't particularly worried about Cook's absence but Pradeep has just bowled his 3rd victim

Hales , not for the first time this summer, holding things together

Finn comes out as nightwatchman to protect Moeen
i'm hoping that with the weather forecast for the next couple of days and the signs of uneven bounce that we might already have enough, would like at least another 100 tho
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:23
davethecue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sunny North
Posts: 8,728
and now Hales is dropped and the next ball bisects the keeper and the slips
davethecue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:23
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
Wasn't particularly worried about Cook's absence but Pradeep has just bowled his 3rd victim

Hales , not for the first time this summer, holding things together

Finn comes out as nightwatchman to protect Moeen
Well the nightwatchman makes sense, because Cook can come in fall of next wicket.
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:24
davethecue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sunny North
Posts: 8,728
Well the nightwatchman makes sense, because Cook can come in fall of next wicket.
Good thinking, hadn't thought of that
davethecue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:28
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
Good thinking, hadn't thought of that
Yep, but England would have probably gone for Finn anywy. It's really the one thing I don't like about this "new England" their slavish devotion to boring night-watchmen.

Mind you it probably put's Broad in the position he deserves.

Pradeep can be pretty sharp can't he?
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:31
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
i'm not a fan of the night-watchman either but i think in this situation it was probably the right call
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:32
mimik1uk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,762
wonder how long nasser has been waiting to use that line today

"cook's gone from the CBE this morning to the A&E this afternoon"
mimik1uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 18:38
seansnotmyname@
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: exeter
Posts: 14,623
i'm not a fan of the night-watchman either but i think in this situation it was probably the right call
Oh yeah agree as I mentioned before, just wanted a whinge about it always being done.

I think there are select times when it's very advantageous to have one, but not every bloody time a wicket falls close to the end.
seansnotmyname@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 19:04
SULLA
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,058
Compton has failed to get a 50 in his last 18 Innings.
He has shown no form at all this season, and I think the problem is in his head.
Never rated him and he has lived up to my expectations.

I would be surprised if he plays another Test this summer.

Vince deserves longer as he can be a decent batsman, and has a better temperament.

Westley from Essex would be worth a try, to replace Compton.
Vince has a first class average of 40.... That's not good enough
SULLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 19:54
alfamale
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,854
The difference for Vince was that he was not even in form when picked.
So there is likely a certain determination by selectors to stick with him.

Me, I am as ever bemused how he even got in the side, the glimmering of international standard being ever so faint.
Bit harsh. Its not like there were many other candidates and Eng had to pick someone new, unless they went back to Bell (gulp). Vince averages 40 in first class cricket, is averaging 40 in 2016 County Div1 too, has done reasonably well with Eng Lions on a number of tours. Unless they want to stick two fingers up to their own set-up I couldnt see Eng picking anyone else. Bell-Drummond a little too soon, esp playing so much Div2 county cricket. Borthwick a possibility. No-one else in the frame is there.
alfamale is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:56.