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Old 17-07-2016, 18:28
davethecue
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Just read this on Cricinfo:

England gave them a good fight though, although you wonder if most of that came from one source. Chris Woakes can get into an international team as a specialist bowler, he took 11 wickets in this match. He can get into an international team as a specialist batsman, he faced more balls than any other English batsman in this match

Shows what could have been achieved
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Old 17-07-2016, 18:33
mimik1uk
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said yesterday i think that woakes has been a revelation this year, always looked like someone with the talent but just wasn't sure whether he could step it up at this level, he's proved me wrong over the last few months
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Old 17-07-2016, 18:38
hannah
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Gutted for Woakes he shouldn't of been on the losing side
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Old 17-07-2016, 18:58
makeba72
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said yesterday i think that Woakes has been a revelation this year, always looked like someone with the talent but just wasn't sure whether he could step it up at this level, he's proved me wrong over the last few months
I was also someone that thought Woakes wasn't good enough for a Test side, but he went away, put on 10mph and upped his game enormously. He must keep his place now, surely.

I think Finn and Moeen should be dropped now. These days, Finn has lost his pace and offers little else. Moeen should not be our front-line spinner, and if he's not going to play as top order batsman, then I don't think he deserves a place. Rashid should be given a chance, I think, and is more than good enough to bat #8. Ballance goes and Stokes comes in. Vince goes and Borthwick comes in, with his bowling as an addition.

I think Root should get some extra coaching on his off-spin, as a back-up. And Ball should be given some 'strength and conditioning' to allow him to bowl quicker for longer. He looks like someone who could generate some real pace in the future.

So for me, it would be:

Cook
Hales
Borthwick
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Ball
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:01
mimik1uk
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I was also someone that thought Woakes wasn't good enough for a Test side, but he went away, put on 10mph and upped his game enormously. He must keep his place now, surely.

I think Finn and Moeen should be dropped now. These days, Finn has lost his pace and offers little else. Moeen should not be our front-line spinner, and if he's not going to play as top order batsman, then I don't think he deserves a place. Rashid should be given a chance, I think, and is more than good enough to bat #8. Ballance goes and Stokes comes in. Vince goes and Borthwick comes in, with his bowling as an addition.

I think Root should get some extra coaching on his off-spin, as a back-up. And Ball should be given some 'strength and conditioning' to allow him to bowl quicker for longer. He looks like someone who could generate some real pace in the future.

So for me, it would be:

Cook
Hales
Borthwick
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Ball
i think vince will get the whole of this series at least , not sure i would do that if it was me making the decision but i reckon they will give him more than just 4 games
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:02
makeba72
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i think vince will get the whole of this series at least , not sure i would do that if it was me making the decision but i reckon they will give him more than just 4 games
I agree, but I think (on balance) that I would prefer the team as above.
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:07
owen10
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Do you think Yasir Shah was the difference on England winning this test as i dont think we are still comfortable facing him
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:08
seansnotmyname@
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I was also someone that thought Woakes wasn't good enough for a Test side, but he went away, put on 10mph and upped his game enormously. He must keep his place now, surely.

I think Finn and Moeen should be dropped now. These days, Finn has lost his pace and offers little else. Moeen should not be our front-line spinner, and if he's not going to play as top order batsman, then I don't think he deserves a place. Rashid should be given a chance, I think, and is more than good enough to bat #8. Ballance goes and Stokes comes in. Vince goes and Borthwick comes in, with his bowling as an addition.

I think Root should get some extra coaching on his off-spin, as a back-up. And Ball should be given some 'strength and conditioning' to allow him to bowl quicker for longer. He looks like someone who could generate some real pace in the future.

So for me, it would be:

Cook
Hales
Borthwick
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Ball
Agree with all this, except Finn has to play at OT, a pitch that will suit his style, Ball didn't do that much this match. If you were to bring someone in Plunkett's the guy. Actually looking again your side has too much bowling, particularly when batting has let us down here.

I'm not as inflexible as I seem at times, I've talked up Moeen, as I believe he's done a job for us, and I don't rate Rashid, but that shot ends it for me, it was disgraceful. Shame Monty isn't in form.

Oh and picking Root at 3 is madness, don't understand why it wasn't questioned more.

Madsen someone that maybe could be considered too, at an unfashionable county, but scores runs and takes catches.
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:12
seansnotmyname@
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Do you Yasir Shah was the difference on England winning this test as i dont think we are still comfortable facing him
Umm. yes, pretty clearly.
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:17
Jamesp84
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Yay, the stupid questions extend to cricket as well.
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:23
SULLA
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If England are going to win you feel a minimum of 100-150 of the runs will have to come from Cook and Root. I wouldn't fancy the rest of them to get 200-250+.
Well the rest of them did score nearly 200

Good decision to open with Broad
Obvious. He was the number I bowler in England's side

I was also someone that thought Woakes wasn't good enough for a Test side, but he went away, put on 10mph and upped his game enormously. He must keep his place now, surely.

I think Finn and Moeen should be dropped now. These days, Finn has lost his pace and offers little else. Moeen should not be our front-line spinner, and if he's not going to play as top order batsman, then I don't think he deserves a place. Rashid should be given a chance, I think, and is more than good enough to bat #8. Ballance goes and Stokes comes in. Vince goes and Borthwick comes in, with his bowling as an addition.

I think Root should get some extra coaching on his off-spin, as a back-up. And Ball should be given some 'strength and conditioning' to allow him to bowl quicker for longer. He looks like someone who could generate some real pace in the future.

So for me, it would be:

Cook
Hales
Borthwick
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Ball
My team, assuming that Stokes and Anderson can bowl.

Cook
Hales
Vince or Ballance
Root
Ballance or Vince
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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Old 17-07-2016, 19:28
owen10
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Well the rest of them did score nearly 200

Obvious. He was the number I bowler in England's side



My team, assuming that Stokes and Anderson can bowl.

Cook
Hales
Vince or Ballance
Root
Ballance or Vince
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
That looks a good side, i think that will be the side for the next test

Anderson got a few wickets today. Do we know that he will be picked for the next, and if was fit why did not play in this test
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Old 17-07-2016, 20:10
aurichie
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That looks a good side, i think that will be the side for the next test

Anderson got a few wickets today. Do we know that he will be picked for the next, and if was fit why did not play in this test
Given his age and importance I think it was a fair decision not to risk him in a gruelling test match. Moreso when you consider expectations were for a lifeless wicket that would require of a lot of patience and bowling from the frontline.

County teams are happy to take a risk on a rare outing for their international stars. If they had to take him out of the attack you can get away with part time alternatives at that level.
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Old 17-07-2016, 20:13
Darren Lethem
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Remember Cook and Fairbrace both wanted Jimmy to play.

But as not Sean has pointed out, it wasn't our bowling that cost us
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Old 17-07-2016, 20:27
Jamesp84
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Remember Cook and Fairbrace both wanted Jimmy to play.

But as not Sean has pointed out, it wasn't our bowling that cost us
Absolutely. Given the circumstances I think the bowling was excellent, and that was with Finn not at his best too.
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Old 17-07-2016, 20:38
jazzydrury3
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My Team for the next test would be:

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Finn

I have picked Stokes more of a batsman, but if he needs to bowl he can, it was touched on Cricket Writers this morning could Stokes play as a batsman only.

I quite like Ali, but I feel if we don't get Rashid a go in test cricket this summer, we aren't going to no, how he will manage when he will be needed this Winter

I would have liked to pick Borthwick, but Hales can still be a cheap wicket, You aren't sure what you are going to get from Vince, Next Michael Vaughan he isn't.
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Old 17-07-2016, 21:30
makeba72
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Agree with all this, except Finn has to play at OT, a pitch that will suit his style, Ball didn't do that much this match. If you were to bring someone in Plunkett's the guy. Actually looking again your side has too much bowling, particularly when batting has let us down here.
To my embarrassment, I forgot about Plunkett, especially as I'm quite a fan of his.

That said, I think Ball was very unlucky this Test and did more than his stats suggest. My pick still bats down to 8, with Rashid, and although I agree it was the batting that let us down, I've replaced Vince and Moeen and Ballance.

It's possible that Vince could end up 'doing a Bell', and turn that good-looking technique into something more consistently robust, but at the moment, I'd prefer to look at Borthwick, not least because of his bowling.

Personally, I think one of the issues of the modern game is that they've tended to value having some batting ability over the primary skill that the person should have been picked for. In some cases, this has worked (see Woakes), but more often I think that doing this has papered over the cracks that are now widening, of a system that doesn't produce batters with the overall package for the Test game. I would still choose a side that demanded the batters stood up and did their job and not have to keep relying on the safety net of a batting tail.

In the background, England need to find a way to invest in spinners and a system that better rewards batsmen that can apply themselves a bit more, IMO. This is a long-term strategy, I appreciate.
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Old 17-07-2016, 21:49
Nova21
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Well impressed with Pakistan. .. They would have won more comfortably if they had held their slip catches. Excellent bowling line up.
Should be a cracking series.
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Old 17-07-2016, 21:55
owen10
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Well impressed with Pakistan. .. They would have won more comfortably if they had held their slip catches. Excellent bowling line up.
Should be a cracking series.
I thought Pakistan were only good in the UAE

Looks like i was wrong. Have they got a new coach because the team looks like a side that could go up the rankings
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Old 17-07-2016, 21:56
seansnotmyname@
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Well impressed with Pakistan. .. They would have won more comfortably if they had held their slip catches. Excellent bowling line up.
Should be a cracking series.
TBH England dropped a few too. Been a problem with us for awhile.
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Old 17-07-2016, 21:56
Bhaveshgor
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Vince is a poor man bell actually.
Bell actually had a good or decent technique,
Vince doesn't actually have a good technique.
so far in his short test career Vince has been fortunate to score 112 runs to date in his career.

few things that I picked up on his that vince doesn't pick spin, plays the spinner of the back foot and that never end up well when the ball is turning or the guy can spin it both ways.

Also vince loves to play long way outside his body which makes him vulnerable to the extra pace or if their is movement in the wicket.
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Old 17-07-2016, 22:03
SULLA
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My Team for the next test would be:

Cook
Hales
Root
Vince
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Finn

I have picked Stokes more of a batsman, but if he needs to bowl he can, it was touched on Cricket Writers this morning could Stokes play as a batsman only.
His average of 33 after 24 games does not make him a number 5 test match batter. He only gets in my side if he can bowl as well.

NB. Our bowling did let us down in this game. After getting the early wickets we let the late middle order get too many, especially in the second innings
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Old 17-07-2016, 22:03
Nova21
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TBH England dropped a few too. Been a problem with us for awhile.
True. I don't think they were as costly though.
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Old 17-07-2016, 22:05
Nova21
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His average of 33 after 24 games does not make him a number 5 test match batter. He only gets in my side if he can bowl as well
Agree with that. That batting line up isn't strong enough at the top but is very strong mid to lower order,. Stokes isn't a number 5
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Old 17-07-2016, 22:06
seansnotmyname@
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To my embarrassment, I forgot about Plunkett, especially as I'm quite a fan of his.

That said, I think Ball was very unlucky this Test and did more than his stats suggest. My pick still bats down to 8, with Rashid, and although I agree it was the batting that let us down, I've replaced Vince and Moeen and Ballance.

It's possible that Vince could end up 'doing a Bell', and turn that good-looking technique into something more consistently robust, but at the moment, I'd prefer to look at Borthwick, not least because of his bowling.

Personally, I think one of the issues of the modern game is that they've tended to value having some batting ability over the primary skill that the person should have been picked for. In some cases, this has worked (see Woakes), but more often I think that doing this has papered over the cracks that are now widening, of a system that doesn't produce batters with the overall package for the Test game. I would still choose a side that demanded the batters stood up and did their job and not have to keep relying on the safety net of a batting tail.

In the background, England need to find a way to invest in spinners and a system that better rewards batsmen that can apply themselves a bit more, IMO. This is a long-term strategy, I appreciate.
You have 5 pace bowlers, and two spinners in the side, even if Borthwick doesn't bowl much now. No team in the World needs five pacers, Old Trafford is a bowlers wicket, Broad Anderson and Woakes might be enough, even without Stokes as back-up. when would Ball even get a bowl? There is no way that's a proper balance. If Borthwick is picked primarily for his batting you only have 4 specialist batsmen, it's madness. Bairstow is keeping so can't expect to bat too high.
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