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International Cricket 2016
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SULLA
25-01-2016
Originally Posted by davethecue:
“Also now the most dismissals in a 4 Test series

How many would it have been if he could catch...

I hear the experts saying give him time etc, but not for me

Impossible to call , but how many would England now be chasing if all the chances behind the wicket had been taken ?

Maybe a little unfair, but let him become a batsman who can double up as the 2nd keeper when on tour. His batting this series has showed he merits a place in the side

With the Central Contracts, it's not that he's going to get much practice at County level”

Just because someone has a central contract does not mean that they should not be playing County cricket.

Originally Posted by jo2015:
“Is Chris Woakes the bastard offspring of Derek Pringle or David Capel? He's like one of the 'never gonna be Bothams' from the 80s. He does have a very neat, old-fashioned haircut though.”

Yes. Well done Chris

After 89 1st class games Hales has a batting average of 38. This is not test match standard.

Lyth did have his chance but it was against Australia.
mimik1uk
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by jo2015:
“Seven consecutive tests was enough of a chance. A hell of a lot more that some players had in the 80s and 90s.”

and the chopping and changing in the 80s and 90s is oft creditted as one of the reasons we struggled so much
dtcdtcdtc
26-01-2016
Root escapes with being dropped by the keeper off the first ball he faced this morning

Wonder if we can survive till tea

Will catch up with the highlights later as work beckons
dtcdtcdtc
26-01-2016
.......I might wait for the next bus..Taylor and Root gone already
Clarkie66
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by dtcdtcdtc:
“.......I might wait for the next bus..Taylor and Root gone already”

Indeed. This looks like it could be over this session.
Clarkie66
26-01-2016
The barmy army singing are really annoying but at least I can turn the sound down on the TV. They would have me demented if I was in the stadium.
bradybrady
26-01-2016
Bairstow trying to get out it seems
Clarkie66
26-01-2016
Haha. Rabada shows how to respond to the disappointment of the no ball by getting Bairstow out next ball. This might be over by the time I have to go out at 9.30. It's hardly a team of Collingwoods or Thorpes.
ACU
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by Hayden:
“So no nearer to solving the perennial 'Who opens with Cook?' debate then?
Was never sure Hales was a test opener whereas I thought Lyth did have what it took.”

What did Carberry do wrong? I thought he had a decent outing against Aus (relatively speaking). So not sure why he was dropped. Bring him back would me my shout.
Sam_Clarke1
26-01-2016
Very poor from England

Good bowling and the series won but where was the fight ?
howard h
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by Sam_Clarke1:
“Very poor from England

Good bowling and the series won but where was the fight ?”

Dead rubber. You've won the series yet have to play another game. One way round that would have been a world championship in 4 or 5 year cycles where a series is, say 3 ( 4 or 5) games and each game is worth points towards that championship.
Even possibly with the threat of relegation at the end of the championship

On saying that though, Tests do count towards players averages and stats and I wouldn't be wanting to throw my wicket away just because it's over and I wanted to be at home!
swingaleg
26-01-2016
Good series win but today's shambles still leaves the feeing of disappointment at the end of the series

I turned the radio off as soon as the last wicket fell so don't know what happened thereafter but I hope England didn't go doing a whooping and hollering lap of honour
howard h
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by ACU:
“What did Carberry do wrong? I thought he had a decent outing against Aus (relatively speaking). So not sure why he was dropped. Bring him back would me my shout.”

I would give Hales the first of the two home series; but it could be another Fairbrother who can cane county attacks but never gets started at Test level. Hales hasn't done enough to drop, and not enough to keep. Let him try at home and see if he can cement a place.
Carberry's a good shout too; maybe should have a shot at No3 if Compton can't score consistently - or put Hales there?
swingaleg
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by howard h:
“Dead rubber. You've won the series yet have to play another game. One way round that would have been a world championship in 4 or 5 year cycles where a series is, say 3 ( 4 or 5) games and each game is worth points towards that championship.
Even possibly with the threat of relegation at the end of the championship

On saying that though, Tests do count towards players averages and stats and I wouldn't be wanting to throw my wicket away just because it's over and I wanted to be at home!”

I did catch a bit of a conversation about a two division Test championship on TMS the other day.........the English contingent were saying things like 'oh but, we might not play the Aussies'...........and the SA bloke was saying 'well, you'd better make sure you don't get relegated'!
howard h
26-01-2016
Jimmy Anderson; how much longer can he go on?? Discuss!

Wonder if, when he retires from England, he will start to shorten his run and drop his pace a touch so he can give Lancashire a few good years (and, boy, do we need him...and not just for his bowling... )
howard h
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“I did catch a bit of a conversation about a two division Test championship on TMS the other day.........the English contingent were saying things like 'oh but, we might not play the Aussies'...........and the SA bloke was saying 'well, you'd better make sure you don't get relegated'!”

I seem to remember about 10 years ago this was under serious discussion from the powers, but they po-poohed the idea of two *divisions* as would the second division be genuine Test level (in the same way I suggest the second tier of the County game shouldn't be first-class) and if it were just one division, there wouldn't be enough time to get all the games in + one-dayers, world cup and champions trophy.

There is a middle ground where the first championship would be 5 years and include all Test teams, with three relegated (one promoted - probably Ireland) so that would reduce the number of fixtures from then on and could run on four-year cycles; with the bottom team relegated and replaced by the best of the rest.

A Championdhip could re-ignite fan and TV interest in Tests; especially dead rubbers?
swingaleg
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by howard h:
“I seem to remember about 10 years ago this was under serious discussion from the powers, but they po-poohed the idea of two *divisions* as would the second division be genuine Test level (in the same way I suggest the second tier of the County game shouldn't be first-class) and if it were just one division, there wouldn't be enough time to get all the games in + one-dayers, world cup and champions trophy.

There is a middle ground where the first championship would be 5 years and include all Test teams, with three relegated (one promoted - probably Ireland) so that would reduce the number of fixtures from then on and could run on four-year cycles; with the bottom team relegated and replaced by the best of the rest.

A Championdhip could re-ignite fan and TV interest in Tests; especially dead rubbers?”

It's a tricky one to get right.......it could have the opposite effect and kill Test cricket in some places

eg........you get the feeling that despite their success of the last few years South African Test cricket is teetering on the brink with low crowds. If they were to spend 4 years playing Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, West Indies........that would probably kill them off
howard h
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“It's a tricky one to get right.......it could have the opposite effect and kill Test cricket in some places

eg........you get the feeling that despite their success of the last few years South African Test cricket is teetering on the brink with low crowds. If they were to spend 4 years playing Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, West Indies........that would probably kill them off”

Well, after the initial championship the poorer countries would be relegated so in that respect all games/teams that are left would be stronger; but as you say if crowds are so low in tests for such a great cricketing nation then that part of the game's dying - do we kill it off or re-vamp it with something to play for?
The only other suggestion is to do what happens in the women's game and combine 20/20, 50 and Tests so there are points for all combined. However I think they had issues with the weighting of points?
SULLA
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by Clarkie66:
“Haha. Rabada shows how to respond to the disappointment of the no ball by getting Bairstow out next ball.”

I wonder how many no balols he got away with though

Originally Posted by howard h:
“I would give Hales the first of the two home series; but it could be another Fairbrother who can cane county attacks but never gets started at Test level.”

The problem is that Hales does not cane County attacks in first class cricket

Originally Posted by howard h:
“Jimmy Anderson; how much longer can he go on?? Discuss!

Wonder if, when he retires from England, he will start to shorten his run and drop his pace a touch so he can give Lancashire a few good years (and, boy, do we need him...and not just for his bowling... )”

I suspect that when the time comes Jimmy will be given some gentle hints by the management and allowed to retire at a time of his choosing. I can't see him returning to County cricket.

Originally Posted by howard h:
“Well, after the initial championship the poorer countries would be relegated so in that respect all games/teams that are left would be stronger; but as you say if crowds are so low in tests for such a great cricketing nation then that part of the game's dying - do we kill it off or re-vamp it with something to play for?
The only other suggestion is to do what happens in the women's game and combine 20/20, 50 and Tests so there are points for all combined. However I think they had issues with the weighting of points?”

There are still many who love watching proper cricket
dtcdtcdtc
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by dtcdtcdtc:
“.......I might wait for the next bus..Taylor and Root gone already”

I should have waited

Awful from England

You wouldn't think there are a(at least) couple playing for their position in the team
Keyser_Soze1
26-01-2016
Poor show from England.

I don't care if it was a dead rubber - Cricket (more than most sports) is about statistics and in addition there were several players supposedly fighting for their future in the side - but you would never have known it after today's bloody shambles.

Bah! Humbug!
JSemple3
26-01-2016
Was going to watch a bit of the cricket when I got up at half 9 this morning. That was a waste of time
jo2015
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by Darren Lethem:
“Was it ? I totally disagree. Some of the greatest players England have produced took a lot longer than 7 tests to get into their stride. And as pointed out, who is a better option ?”

Any names? Gooch and Gatting come to mind.

It's true that Gatting and Gooch took a while to get into their stride. But Gatting had a batting average in the low thirties and only won 2 tests against a relatively weak Australian team. Both buggerred off on 'rebel' tours and Gooch only bumped up his average in the early 90s - but he'd became a regular in the late seventies. He wasn't much of a captain either.

Hick and Ramprakash had more than a few opportunities; Ramps was alright against the Aussies but only averaged 27.

Hick had a nightmare start against Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall etc. But he averaged just over 31 and only had a brief 'golden spell' in the mid-nineties. He had plenty of chances.

Seven consecutive tests at home in an age of central contracts etc., greater support; that's enough as far as I'm concerned.
jo2015
26-01-2016
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“Just because someone has a central contract does not mean that they should not be playing County cricket.

Yes. Well done Chris

After 89 1st class games Hales has a batting average of 38. This is not test match standard.

Lyth did have his chance but it was against Australia.”

Lyth had 2 tests against New Zealand and it wasn't a vintage Australian team. Two wins by the Aussies on flat pitches, one of which was a dead rubber.

And playing Australia doesn't excuse a poor run. There was no equivalent of McGrath, Warne etc. It was a relatively average bowling attack.

Should a batsman make his debut against a weaker team and gradually be bedded in?

Robson opened against not the strongest Indian team, whom England rolled over. He probably won't be seen again.
SULLA
27-01-2016
Originally Posted by jo2015:
“Hick and Ramprakash had more than a few opportunities; Ramps was alright against the Aussies but only averaged 27. ”

The difference is that both were quality first class players each scoring over 100 centuries each.
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