|
||||||||
Live 365 lays off most staff due to new royalty rates and investors pulling support |
![]() |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 6,183
|
Live 365 lays off most staff due to new royalty rates and investors pulling support
Lots of webcasters facing an uncertain future
"Thousands of webcasters are bearing an uncertain holiday season, their businesses threatened by the imminent expiration of legislation which provided below-market royalty rates. Internet radio hosting platform Live365, one of the most venerable brands in this industry, is affected by shifting regulations that change the cost of music on January. In addition, the company’s investors have pulled support from the company, forcing an immediate financial crisis. RAIN News has learned that as a result, nearly the entire staff was laid off this week. The company vacated its office space, and the few remaining personnel are working from their homes. The company is publicly appealing for investment funding." Full article http://rainnews.com/live365-suffers-...acates-office/ |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 360
|
I had an email from Digitally Imported, it seems they are also affected by the change in regulations and may stop their free service.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,268
|
Hope this is not the death knell to all but the big London based uk national commercial stations who may have only a few local hours each day, and the BBC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,570
|
Affects the US Quote:
The ruling which was released earlier this week, calls for free music companies like Pandora to pay 17 cents per 100 plays of a song, a number which is up from the current 14 cents they now pay. The price will remain set at 17 cents through 2020. This new rate will also apply to traditional radio platforms like iHeartRadio, who have been paying 25 cents per 100 plays. Also affects small US internet stations who will need more ads to increase their income.Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/a-and-...#ixzz3w0kpTbp0 Spotify and Apple music (Beats) have their own deals. UK based internet stations also have a different PRS deal. |
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,875
|
Quote:
I had an email from Digitally Imported, it seems they are also affected by the change in regulations and may stop their free service.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,268
|
Quote:
Lots of webcasters facing an uncertain future
"Thousands of webcasters are bearing an uncertain holiday season, their businesses threatened by the imminent expiration of legislation which provided below-market royalty rates. Internet radio hosting platform Live365, one of the most venerable brands in this industry, is affected by shifting regulations that change the cost of music on January. In addition, the company’s investors have pulled support from the company, forcing an immediate financial crisis. RAIN News has learned that as a result, nearly the entire staff was laid off this week. The company vacated its office space, and the few remaining personnel are working from their homes. The company is publicly appealing for investment funding." Full article http://rainnews.com/live365-suffers-...acates-office/ |
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,204
|
Can't they just use a server outside the US to get around it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,570
|
Quote:
Can't they just use a server outside the US to get around it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,570
|
I think the UK current costs work out at about 20 cents per 100 streamed songs, so if my maths is right, a little bit higher than the new US rates?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 220
|
Right now as of today, UK rates are cheaper than US. If you take into account SESAC/ASCAP/BMI and the new SoundExchange rates it has skyrocketed for "small webcasters".
Up until yesterday, Live365 and many others were covered by the Small Webcasters Act which based the SoundExchange rates on a % of revenue/expenditure. Also ASCAP now want a rate per station, no longer aggregated. SoundExchange now only can offer commercial webcasters a rate of $0.0017 per performance. Soon adds up. They're all hoping some form of negotiated settlement can happen in January but more may fall by the wayside. Time will tell! |
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 730
|
Maybe they should change the name now?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,155
|
Quote:
UK rates seem to be £129 per 45,000 streamed songs for small internet stations, not sure how this compares to the new US rate? (needs some maths).
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: lichfield staffs
Posts: 388
|
Quote:
Can't they just use a server outside the US to get around it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#14 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 716
|
Quote:
Affects the US
Also affects small US internet stations who will need more ads to increase their income. Spotify and Apple music (Beats) have their own deals. UK based internet stations also have a different PRS deal. |
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
Can't they just use a server outside the US to get around it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#16 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Essex
Posts: 3,858
|
It strikes me that the US Internet Radio ecosystem must have been buoyed by artificially low royalty rates such that an increase to below what we pay in the UK should cause such devastation.
Whilst the US is the home of entrepreneurship and there is much wailing & gnashing of teeth about this, the artists (who have a better argument for making a living out of their own music than the internet hobbyists) must not be forgotten. I see this as a necessary correction in what appeared to be an unfair relationship. It's no longer the case that 'airplay sells records' - it's almost the opposite nowadays with people not buying records because they can hear it free online. If these internet stations can't turn a profit whilst recompensing the artists adequately then they don't have a business plan. |
|
|
|
|
|
#17 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
It strikes me that the US Internet Radio ecosystem must have been buoyed by artificially low royalty rates such that an increase to below what we pay in the UK should cause such devastation.
For example, if I ran a small station, say 10,000 hours TLH/month (not a lot), UK royalties would be around £150 ($225), in the US, combined royalties would be approx $400 per month. That station may have previously paid $50/mo. There are no breaks for low revenue/small webcasters. Now you can see why a lot have collapsed. |
|
|
|
|
|
#18 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Essex
Posts: 3,858
|
Quote:
I believe you are misinformed. I run a station in the US and it's likely to end this month, depending on negotiations. One thing PRS/PPL offer is a tiered pricing mechanism. Small stations with low Listener Hours (TLH) and/or low revenue get breaks on pricing. With the new structure SoundExchange have no tiers now. Small station (hobby), small AM/FM radio station, Major Market station (NY etc) and Pandora all pay the same rates for streaming. ASCAP now is based on TLH as well per channel, used to be able to aggregate them.
For example, if I ran a small station, say 10,000 hours TLH/month (not a lot), UK royalties would be around £150 ($225), in the US, combined royalties would be approx $400 per month. That station may have previously paid $50/mo. There are no breaks for low revenue/small webcasters. Now you can see why a lot have collapsed. http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/...-decision.html EDIT: The article is wrong - SoundExchange are eliminating the Microcaster category w.e.f. this year 2016. http://www.soundexchange.com/service...r/microcaster/ however the Standard Minimum Fee in the new category of Commercial Webcaster (crb) is a minimum $500 per year http://www.soundexchange.com/service...webcaster-crb/ which means the smallest webcasters are only paying $41.66 a month even under the new regieme. |
|
|
|
|
|
#19 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
EDIT: The article is wrong - SoundExchange are eliminating the Microcaster category w.e.f. this year 2016. http://www.soundexchange.com/service...r/microcaster/ however the Standard Minimum Fee in the new category of Commercial Webcaster (crb) is a minimum $500 per year http://www.soundexchange.com/service...webcaster-crb/ which means the smallest webcasters are only paying $41.66 a month even under the new regieme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#20 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear
Posts: 2,241
|
dd Quote:
Forgot to mention earlier, location of server is immaterial to this, it's the location of the listener that counts. Live 365 was targeted at US listeners!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#21 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
How does this work if the station is operated from outside the USA. If for example the station was based in Canada but most of the listeners were in the US, how could the US authorities enforce the law upon a foreign operated setup?
It depends if someone does get sued and whether they have the means/will/cash to counter it. I suspect a cease and desist will just do the trick to most operators. "Battles worth fighting and all that!". I do know that SOCAN (Canada) threatened a few operators in the US a few years back so a few do pay SOCAN now! Very little reciprocality sadly |
|
|
|
|
|
#22 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,725
|
I would love to know where all these agencies get the money to run around looking for payments from foreign internet stations for their countries listeners and all the other amount of activities they do? They are hardly volunteers. How are these agencies appointed? via the state or they just take it upon themselves? How much does the artist actually get from royalties collected? I can't understand why, once royalties are being paid in the country of origine that any more should be payed for foreign listeners. Its ridiculous tbh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#23 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitchurch, Hampshire, England
Posts: 4,323
|
Hopefully just a coincidence but Canadian college station CKUT's web stream has been off for the last 2 or 3 days. I have messaged them via Facebook and email but no responses from them as yet.
These changes don't affect Canadian stations do they? |
|
|
|
|
|
#24 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: lichfield staffs
Posts: 388
|
Are there other companies providing the same sort of service as live365 ? Maybe in uk or europe ?.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#25 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Offenburg, Germany
Posts: 1,344
|
Quote:
I would love to know where all these agencies get the money to run around looking for payments from foreign internet stations for their countries listeners and all the other amount of activities they do? They are hardly volunteers. How are these agencies appointed? via the state or they just take it upon themselves? How much does the artist actually get from royalties collected? I can't understand why, once royalties are being paid in the country of origine that any more should be payed for foreign listeners. Its ridiculous tbh.
Way back in '98 U2 were suing the UK's PRS over the amount they charged https://books.google.com/books?id=mQ...%20PRS&f=false |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:59.


