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Will we ever find out what turned Dean into a rapist?


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Old 02-01-2016, 01:27
Whiskyrum
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This used to be Dean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tP9Kxy0LA

What changed in the ten years??

Being raped in prison?
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:32
Menime123
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I don't think we need to to be honest. People do evil things whether they mean to or not, and whether they consider them evil or not.

They've tried to say a few times this week that he hasn't grown up, that he reacts rather than thinks and over the relationship with Roxy shown him to be possessive of women. He evidently sees them as possessions to do whatever he pleases, and I doubt that's because of a life experience that could be pin pointed.

Plus I think we'd all turn off if they dragged this storyline out any longer.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:40
boddism
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This used to be Dean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tP9Kxy0LA

What changed in the ten years??

Being raped in prison?
This has been suggested by fans and indeed it was hinted at in the show at the end of Deans first stint. But it has never been broached this time.

The concept of rapist as rape victim, although frequently true in real life is perhaps too controversial, even for Eastenders. They'd have been roasted by the press for that!
The other problem with that angle is that it would also make the character seem somewhat sympathetic.

The decision was obviously made to go with Dean as rapist, & ignore whatever hints were made back in 2008. The show has made it pretty explicit why Dean has become a rapist-he reacts to rejection by women with sexual violence. This goes back to the original rejection he suffered as a child by Shirley. He's become a pathetic mummy's boy & control freak.

If Matt returns in a few years he can perhaps go over these earlier strands, with another producer who might be interested in exploriing it.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:00
SULLA
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He was always a bad un.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:04
Menime123
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^ True. Patrick will back that up :P
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:07
Whiskyrum
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He was always a bad un.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tP9Kxy0LA

No he wasn't... not in his first stint apart from that one episode when came out of jail
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:10
loco_loca
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The dark side of immaturity. He was introduced as a naive and immature young man, but not much came of it because of his experiences. He went to prison and became bitter; his bitterness stems from his inability to accept responsibility for his actions.

If he was a mature individual, he would accept responsibility for his lot in life. The acceptance of responsibility would remove the bitterness that has resulted in him wanting to teach others a lesson whilst refusing to appreciate the damage he has caused.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:15
BeeBumble
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I think it was definitely a mixture of prison and Kevin's death that turned him from a, mainly, happy 'cheeky' character to the angsty nutbag he is now.

It is possible he was raped in prison and think it would be an interesting path to go down. Whether that's the case or not though I think prison is where he probably got his delusions that raping someone is just a way to assert dominance and get what he wants and that somehow the victim is 'asking for it'.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:24
Menime123
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The dark side of immaturity. He was introduced as a naive and immature young man, but not much came of it because of his experiences. He went to prison and became bitter; his bitterness stems from his inability to accept responsibility for his actions.

If he was a mature individual, he would accept responsibility for his lot in life. The acceptance of responsibility would remove the bitterness that has resulted in him wanting to teach others a lesson whilst refusing to appreciate the damage he has caused.

I suspect he'll explore all that off screen and should he return down the line they can at least make him a man who has accepted his errors, learnt his lesson, is repentant and changed his ways.

Whether Linda is in the show should he return remains to be seen, but an episode where he apologies directly to her could be quite powerful actually from a dramatic point of view.

It would feel wrong for him to return to a square without Linda and Roxy being around for this to happen, otherwise it feel like it was being brushed to one side. As horrid as this stint has been for him, Matt has done a wonderful job though and on that basis I'd be open to him returning in the future.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:26
TheGraduate2012
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I agree with you all. People say rape is so often about control, not sexual attraction, and so perhaps Dean views it as the only way to exert control over his all too often chaotic and unstable life, stemming from his brother's death, being abandoned by his mother, his father's death, going to prison and his grandfather's death. And so his 'rejections' from women are the only thing he thinks he can have power over, by violence.

I wonder if the writers will pick up on the 'hints' about him being raped in prison. It would be interesting, I guess, but I'm wondering if there's really any point now.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:40
computermaster
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Don't remember much about his 1st stint except his downfall being when he tried to frame that lunatic named Sean Slater (can't remember or don't really care why).

His second stint, he was just a really angry guy, most of it directed at Shirley. Apart from that he was actually pretty normal. Got in to some trouble every now and again, but compared to people like the Mitchells he was saint like.

For some reason the writers then had him develop some strange and creepy obssesion with Mick's wife. When she rejected all of his advances, he raped her. The rest is just pure fan pressure to get him out of the show. There's no way he was ever the laughable, panto psycho that they portrayed him as in the last few eps of his second stint. They had to make him like that to get him out. For a similar case of bad writing, see Archie Mitchell.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:12
SULLA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tP9Kxy0LA

No he wasn't... not in his first stint apart from that one episode when came out of jail
How did he come to be in jail ?
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:16
Whiskyrum
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How did he come to be in jail ?
By telling a stupid fib... Plus Chelsea motivated him do it
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:57
BeeBumble
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How did he come to be in jail ?
He and Chelsea stole CCTV footage so they could frame Sean for Patrick's attack. Ironically, because he didn't like the way Sean treated his sister.
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:03
Whiskyrum
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He and Chelsea stole CCTV footage so they could frame Sean for Patrick's attack. Ironically, because he didn't like the way Sean treated his sister.
The poster already knew... they were getting at that I said he wasn't a bad un during his first stint
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:51
Lizzie Brookes
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I don't think we need to to be honest. People do evil things whether they mean to or not, and whether they consider them evil or not.

They've tried to say a few times this week that he hasn't grown up, that he reacts rather than thinks and over the relationship with Roxy shown him to be possessive of women. He evidently sees them as possessions to do whatever he pleases, and I doubt that's because of a life experience that could be pin pointed.

Plus I think we'd all turn off if they dragged this storyline out any longer.
This has been suggested by fans and indeed it was hinted at in the show at the end of Deans first stint. But it has never been broached this time.

The concept of rapist as rape victim, although frequently true in real life is perhaps too controversial, even for Eastenders. They'd have been roasted by the press for that!
The other problem with that angle is that it would also make the character seem somewhat sympathetic.

The decision was obviously made to go with Dean as rapist, & ignore whatever hints were made back in 2008. The show has made it pretty explicit why Dean has become a rapist-he reacts to rejection by women with sexual violence. This goes back to the original rejection he suffered as a child by Shirley. He's become a pathetic mummy's boy & control freak.

If Matt returns in a few years he can perhaps go over these earlier strands, with another producer who might be interested in exploriing it.
The dark side of immaturity. He was introduced as a naive and immature young man, but not much came of it because of his experiences. He went to prison and became bitter; his bitterness stems from his inability to accept responsibility for his actions.

If he was a mature individual, he would accept responsibility for his lot in life. The acceptance of responsibility would remove the bitterness that has resulted in him wanting to teach others a lesson whilst refusing to appreciate the damage he has caused.
I think it was definitely a mixture of prison and Kevin's death that turned him from a, mainly, happy 'cheeky' character to the angsty nutbag he is now.

It is possible he was raped in prison and think it would be an interesting path to go down. Whether that's the case or not though I think prison is where he probably got his delusions that raping someone is just a way to assert dominance and get what he wants and that somehow the victim is 'asking for it'.
I suspect he'll explore all that off screen and should he return down the line they can at least make him a man who has accepted his errors, learnt his lesson, is repentant and changed his ways.

Whether Linda is in the show should he return remains to be seen, but an episode where he apologies directly to her could be quite powerful actually from a dramatic point of view.

It would feel wrong for him to return to a square without Linda and Roxy being around for this to happen, otherwise it feel like it was being brushed to one side. As horrid as this stint has been for him, Matt has done a wonderful job though and on that basis I'd be open to him returning in the future.
I agree with you all. People say rape is so often about control, not sexual attraction, and so perhaps Dean views it as the only way to exert control over his all too often chaotic and unstable life, stemming from his brother's death, being abandoned by his mother, his father's death, going to prison and his grandfather's death. And so his 'rejections' from women are the only thing he thinks he can have power over, by violence.

I wonder if the writers will pick up on the 'hints' about him being raped in prison. It would be interesting, I guess, but I'm wondering if there's really any point now.
Don't remember much about his 1st stint except his downfall being when he tried to frame that lunatic named Sean Slater (can't remember or don't really care why).

His second stint, he was just a really angry guy, most of it directed at Shirley. Apart from that he was actually pretty normal. Got in to some trouble every now and again, but compared to people like the Mitchells he was saint like.

For some reason the writers then had him develop some strange and creepy obssesion with Mick's wife. When she rejected all of his advances, he raped her. The rest is just pure fan pressure to get him out of the show. There's no way he was ever the laughable, panto psycho that they portrayed him as in the last few eps of his second stint. They had to make him like that to get him out. For a similar case of bad writing, see Archie Mitchell
.
Lines in bold - I agree.

Dean's first prison stint changed him as a person and though yes he chose to lie about Sean, he probably blamed Chelsea for him going to prison - I remember him showing her the cuts and burns on his arm - that combined with being romntically rejected and Shirley' constant abandonment made him develop all this misogyny and bitterness. Kevins death did not help either, and though he may have chosen to leave the square for 6 years, he lacked motional support as a result of that choice.

While it is only right that Dean serves prison time I do hope he is given psychiatric help as well and returns having changed his ways and accepted responsibility for his actions. What I find interesting about Dean is that e started out trying to seduce his two victims and claiming ironically that he "loved" them - though it came across as twisted love rather than a straightforward lie. Finn O Connor/Frank Foster didn't do that - it was more about revenge/hate crimes and they did other despicable things, all of which seemed more authentic and true to character than the pantomime things Dean did later.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:55
Ouroboros
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It was the scriptwriters that turned Dean into a rapist.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:20
Nefersitra
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tP9Kxy0LA

No he wasn't... not in his first stint apart from that one episode when came out of jail
Because nice guys spike girl's drinks because "she needs it" don't they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTvXp2Qq0A

Dean drugged Stacey and when she rightfully became upset and worried about it, blamed poor Bradley. Dean's always had a nasty streak, it's just been more evident since he went to prison.

There is no excuse - even being a victim himself - for Dean's behaviour. The conversations with Shirley after Roxy got away prove it; he knows rape is wrong, he knows what the words "No" and "Stop" mean but he chooses to ignore them and then blames the woman - she wanted it, she likes it rough etc.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:06
DODS11
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Wasn't that really the whole point of the story. Anyone is capable of doing something so horrific, even the one's you wouldn't expect.

Looking back, I think his love/hate relationship with Shirley, finding out his father wasn't biologically his own, being sent to prison certainly didn't help.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:12
Theo Rose
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Dean has always had an issue with women. If you remember back to his very first month, Dean spiked Stacey's drink with the date rape drug. That shows he viewed women in an unhealthy way even back then. It was that story what pushed Stacey and Bradley together.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:31
Sez_babe
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When Dean met Shirley again in the Vic and was shouting at her he mentioned his time in prison and every day the guys made his life a living hell. I really thought we'd find out more but we never did.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:39
Ouroboros
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Don't forget Jade is the result of Dean having sex with a drunk Shabnam, probably the only reason that was not classed as rape was due to Shabnam not remembering whether she was consenting or not.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:39
soap-lea
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I think him screaming about wanting a mum and then being let down by her about 5secs before his exchange with Linda and the fact it happened (the rape) just after Shirley left kind of indicates his mother issues mess him up
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:42
soap-lea
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Don't forget Jade is the result of Dean having sex with a drunk Shabnam, probably the only reason that was not classed as rape was due to Shabnam not remembering whether she was consenting or not.

who said shabnam was drunk?

when shabnam told Stacey she was saying it was consensual and not that she was drunk and that Dean took advantage. she was shocked to hear him being called a rapist cos she didnt think he could do that
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:49
Ouroboros
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who said shabnam was drunk?

when shabnam told Stacey she was saying it was consensual and not that she was drunk and that Dean took advantage. she was shocked to hear him being called a rapist cos she didnt think he could do that
On another occasion she did mention it happened when she had gone off the rails and was doing all sorts like drinking and not acting like a good muslim and the fact she mentioned Dean took advantage seems to imply it was not entirely consensual.
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