The subtitles don't match, even if you don't know German you can see/hear.
Why did he drive past the toilet?
Why did he drive past the toilet?
Deutschland '83
12 of 30
Originally Posted by Sky_Guy:
“The subtitles don't match, even if you don't know German you can see/hear.
Why did he drive past the toilet?”
“The subtitles don't match, even if you don't know German you can see/hear.
Why did he drive past the toilet?”
In order to meet with his handler at the pre-arranged petrol station
Originally Posted by heiker:
“In order to meet with his handler at the pre-arranged petrol station”
“In order to meet with his handler at the pre-arranged petrol station”
How did he know to go to the petrol station? The codes he found in the woods?
Clearly I was not paying enough attention.
Originally Posted by embrascot:
“I thoroughly enjoy this type of drama. I think that the Germans are very good at this type of historical drama about their own recent past.
Das Boot was, of course, the best so far. Funnily enough I find that I do not like to view the dubbed into English version, preferring the original German. It helps create the correct atmosphere.
People seem to have forgotten another German classic, Heimat, about the history of a small village from before WW1 to the present (when made) day. It followed several characters and their families right through their lives.
For those complaining that it is in German they really should realise that their onw language comes from the same roots. Where do they think the Angles and Saxons came from?”
“I thoroughly enjoy this type of drama. I think that the Germans are very good at this type of historical drama about their own recent past.
Das Boot was, of course, the best so far. Funnily enough I find that I do not like to view the dubbed into English version, preferring the original German. It helps create the correct atmosphere.
People seem to have forgotten another German classic, Heimat, about the history of a small village from before WW1 to the present (when made) day. It followed several characters and their families right through their lives.
For those complaining that it is in German they really should realise that their onw language comes from the same roots. Where do they think the Angles and Saxons came from?”
Don't forget Generation War ("Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter") which was shown on BBC2 in 2014. That was a fantastic drama series, possibly one of the first ever to depict life in Nazi Germany and the war on the Eastern Front from the point of view of young German characters (who predictably are torn and disillusioned as the war comes to it's conclusion and their world falls apart around them).
Originally Posted by Sky_Guy:
“No Bowie tracks so far.”
“No Bowie tracks so far.”
They had China Girl this week.
There was a Bowie track last week.(can't remember what it was.)
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“Basically, the Stasi could easily fetch everything from West Berlin. Western customs officers rarely checked the luggage of travellers, and diplomats' cars weren't examined at all. So for example, the Stasi could have sent a member of the Polish or Romanian embassy across the border, and he would have been back within an hour.
Having said that, I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know which kind of device they nedeed and if it was readily available in the west.”
“Basically, the Stasi could easily fetch everything from West Berlin. Western customs officers rarely checked the luggage of travellers, and diplomats' cars weren't examined at all. So for example, the Stasi could have sent a member of the Polish or Romanian embassy across the border, and he would have been back within an hour.
Having said that, I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know which kind of device they nedeed and if it was readily available in the west.”
I'd guess that back then, modern US computer equipment would have been reasonably readily available in West Berlin and from there it's just a quick trip across the border to Berlin - Hauptstadt der DDR.
As an aside, there have been plenty of books and documentaries now about life in the DDR but, Berlin airlift aside, not much about what it was like to live in a West Berlin which surrounded on all sides by hostile territory. I guess what must have made it more bearable was the open green spaces in western West Berlin.
Originally Posted by RecordPlayer:
“I believe they were all banned books in East Germany. His mother's secret stash. The one on her bedside table was.
I wonder if Martin's girlfriend is going to report it, or start reading the books herself?”
“I believe they were all banned books in East Germany. His mother's secret stash. The one on her bedside table was.
I wonder if Martin's girlfriend is going to report it, or start reading the books herself?”
Yes, they were books either critical of the Soviet Bloc, e.g. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago or of authoritarian regimes in general, e.g. George Orwell's 1984 (I noticed both titles on display).
My relative in Bielefeld, NRW, tells me that he has downloaded the series since I told him of it, and has watched the first two episodes.
He says that there are lots of holes in the show, as is to be expected of any programme, but he says that it's entirely watchable, and he looks forward to watching the rest of it.
He did say that one thing rings very true, from his time in the BAOR, where he was often on manoeuvres with the Bundeswehr, (German army), and U.S. forces.
The Bundeswehr in Deutschland 83 are as dumb as they were when he was serving alongside them, (his indictment, not mine.)
He says that there are lots of holes in the show, as is to be expected of any programme, but he says that it's entirely watchable, and he looks forward to watching the rest of it.
He did say that one thing rings very true, from his time in the BAOR, where he was often on manoeuvres with the Bundeswehr, (German army), and U.S. forces.
The Bundeswehr in Deutschland 83 are as dumb as they were when he was serving alongside them, (his indictment, not mine.)
Originally Posted by RecordPlayer:
“They had China Girl this week.
There was a Bowie track last week.(can't remember what it was.)”
“They had China Girl this week.
There was a Bowie track last week.(can't remember what it was.)”
Modern Love was the Bowie track last week, right at the end of the episode.
Originally Posted by Sky_Guy:
“How did he know to go to the petrol station? The codes he found in the woods?
Clearly I was not paying enough attention.”
“How did he know to go to the petrol station? The codes he found in the woods?
Clearly I was not paying enough attention.
”
Understandable !
An extremely watchable and enjoyable series, but full of unbelievable scenes that Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman would have consigned to the cutting room floor.
Just a 'heads up' for anyone visiting Ireland this weekend... RTE 2 have been broadcasting the series 4 episodes ahead of C4. Have ep.7 recorded and awaiting watching - this weekend on Sunday night RTE 2 the final episode is due to be broadcast.
Have enjoyed the series though agree huge holes in the plot.
Have enjoyed the series though agree huge holes in the plot.
When Stamm was initially signed up to spy for East Germany he was told that information had to be gathered as quickly as possible. Last night he was told to seduce the typist but do it in slow time 
Originally Posted by nomad2king:
“The machine they used had a 8" floppy disk drive(yes they did exist) and they tried to put a 5.25" disk in there. Both disks were on the table and you could see the difference in size. I've used a Sinclair Spectrum +3 to read IBM PC 5.25" and 3.5" disks, so with the right technical know-how you can write "drivers" to read them.”
“The machine they used had a 8" floppy disk drive(yes they did exist) and they tried to put a 5.25" disk in there. Both disks were on the table and you could see the difference in size. I've used a Sinclair Spectrum +3 to read IBM PC 5.25" and 3.5" disks, so with the right technical know-how you can write "drivers" to read them.”
I'm sure that 5" floppies couldn't be used in an 8" drive because all bits and bobs in an 8" drive were in the wrong place to operate and read a 5" disk. So (at least initially) the challenge was the hardware.
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“...nevertheless almost every young man would have known about them - especially Martin/Moritz because he was a member of the border troops before becoming a spy, so he came into contact with western tourists.”
“...nevertheless almost every young man would have known about them - especially Martin/Moritz because he was a member of the border troops before becoming a spy, so he came into contact with western tourists.”
He'd know about them... but I wonder if tourists from the west were advised not to take 'valuables' with them into the GDR on the basis that they'd be confiscated or nicked. I'm sure there'd have been a black market for them too. In the late 90s, when Russia was opening up, then colleagues were going into Russia for business quite regularly.
They were briefed beforehand not to take 'desirable' and precious or sentimental items because they'd likely be confiscated. One friend forgot, took a Mont Blanc fountain pen in with her which was in her briefcase. When it was searched on entry at the airport, it openly wasn't given back to her. She didn't argue. So perhaps early 80s tourists into the GDR learned not to take things like a Walkman with them.
Originally Posted by heiker:
“I was puzzled last night as to why East German intelligence appeared confused by the sight of a floppy disk.”
“I was puzzled last night as to why East German intelligence appeared confused by the sight of a floppy disk.”
Just for effect, I'm sure. To give us a chuckle.
Originally Posted by Debrajoan:
“So you think that driving away with the nozzle and petrol hose still firmly lodged in the gas tank is a shrug, "so what?" thing do you?”
“So you think that driving away with the nozzle and petrol hose still firmly lodged in the gas tank is a shrug, "so what?" thing do you?”
I do. Couldn't care less. As someone has said, it was perhaps poor editing / bad continuity but fleeting stuff like that doesn't bother me in the slightest if the story-telling is good.
Originally Posted by heiker:
“When Stamm was initially signed up to spy for East Germany he was told that information had to be gathered as quickly as possible. Last night he was told to seduce the typist but do it in slow time”
“When Stamm was initially signed up to spy for East Germany he was told that information had to be gathered as quickly as possible. Last night he was told to seduce the typist but do it in slow time
”
Perhaps they didn't expect him to be useful past his first mission - or even achieve it. Now he's proving resourceful and successful, the goalposts are changing.
-------------
Personally, I don't find these (alleged) minor discrepancies a problem at all - or the so-called plot holes. It's not a documentary, it's a story... I don't require every box to be ticked and for every i to be dotted, etc. Most dramas of this type, regardless of country of origin, are unlikely to stand up to close scrutiny and it's fine by me providing there are great characters and a good story well-told.
I visited this museum in 2004
http://www.alltagskultur-ddr.de/en/the-museum/
Interesting. I still have some photos somewhere
http://www.alltagskultur-ddr.de/en/the-museum/
Interesting. I still have some photos somewhere
Originally Posted by Sky_Guy:
“No Bowie tracks so far.”
“No Bowie tracks so far.”
you really weren't paying attention at all, obviously
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“As an aside, there have been plenty of books and documentaries now about life in the DDR but, Berlin airlift aside, not much about what it was like to live in a West Berlin which surrounded on all sides by hostile territory. I guess what must have made it more bearable was the open green spaces in western West Berlin. ”
“As an aside, there have been plenty of books and documentaries now about life in the DDR but, Berlin airlift aside, not much about what it was like to live in a West Berlin which surrounded on all sides by hostile territory. I guess what must have made it more bearable was the open green spaces in western West Berlin. ”
After the initial shock in 1961, when the wall was built, I guess most people just got used to it. The city was big, and West Berliners could travel freely to West Germany by car, train, or plane. And there were incentives: The overnment paid a tax-free bonus to every employee in West Berlin: 8% of the gross income. Also, a lot of young men moved to the city to evade the military draft.
Of course, it could get pretty depressing if you lived right next to the wall.
http://www.die-berliner-mauer.de/dis...zember20081138
People moved away from districts like Kreuzberg and Neukölln if they could afford it, and these areas were then repopulated by immigrant workers, students and hippies.
And there were some surreal locations, e.g. garden plots directly adjacent to the wall.
http://www.zeithistorische-forschung...pg?language=de
Originally Posted by chestfield:
“I visited this museum in 2004
http://www.alltagskultur-ddr.de/en/the-museum/
Interesting. I still have some photos somewhere”
“I visited this museum in 2004
http://www.alltagskultur-ddr.de/en/the-museum/
Interesting. I still have some photos somewhere”
There's also a DDR-Museum in Berlin:
http://www.ddr-museum.de/en
And on the Autobahn A2, between Hannover and Berlin, there's a memorial with a small museum at the former Helmstedt-Marienborn border crossing. When you join a guided tour, you can ascend an old East-German watchtower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmst...order_crossing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDlg9iGeg4
Short documentary in English: "Life behind the Berlin Wall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8BojR2BEt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8BojR2BEt8
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“There's also a DDR-Museum in Berlin:
http://www.ddr-museum.de/en
And on the Autobahn A2, between Hannover and Berlin, there's a memorial with a small museum at the former Helmstedt-Marienborn border crossing. When you join a guided tour, you can ascend an old East-German watchtower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmst...order_crossing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDlg9iGeg4”
“There's also a DDR-Museum in Berlin:
http://www.ddr-museum.de/en
And on the Autobahn A2, between Hannover and Berlin, there's a memorial with a small museum at the former Helmstedt-Marienborn border crossing. When you join a guided tour, you can ascend an old East-German watchtower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmst...order_crossing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDlg9iGeg4”
My husband tells of the time before he met me, he drove from London to Poznan, Poland, with his then Polish girlfriend in 1974.
They crossed into the DDR at Helmstedt-Marienborn, he said the East German female border guards had uniform skirts that were so short, you could see their stocking tops and suspenders.
He spent their time in Poland looking forward to crossing that border again on the way home!
Episode 3 was a great laugh and I think proved the point some of us have made that this is not a spy thriller in any way. It is a pure cultural and social nostalgia piece, extremely well made with humour and charm.
Originally Posted by Normandie:
“Personally, I don't find these (alleged) minor discrepancies a problem at all - or the so-called plot holes. It's not a documentary, it's a story... I don't require every box to be ticked and for every i to be dotted, etc. Most dramas of this type, regardless of country of origin, are unlikely to stand up to close scrutiny and it's fine by me providing there are great characters and a good story well-told.”
“Personally, I don't find these (alleged) minor discrepancies a problem at all - or the so-called plot holes. It's not a documentary, it's a story... I don't require every box to be ticked and for every i to be dotted, etc. Most dramas of this type, regardless of country of origin, are unlikely to stand up to close scrutiny and it's fine by me providing there are great characters and a good story well-told.”
I totally agree. I'm really enjoying the series, and find all the nit-picking (especially pointing out 'plot holes' that aren't actually plot holes) quite tiresome.
Originally Posted by WhoAteMeDinner:
“Episode 3 was a great laugh and I think proved the point some of us have made that this is not a spy thriller in any way. It is a pure cultural and social nostalgia piece, extremely well made with humour and charm.”
“Episode 3 was a great laugh and I think proved the point some of us have made that this is not a spy thriller in any way. It is a pure cultural and social nostalgia piece, extremely well made with humour and charm.”
If it's meant to be a "pure cultural and social nostalgia piece" then there are better ways of doing it without all the spy stuff getting in the way.
Nothing of any significance, but having seen all the episodes.
Spoiler
Originally Posted by Neio:
“I totally agree. I'm really enjoying the series, and find all the nit-picking (especially pointing out 'plot holes' that aren't actually plot holes) quite tiresome.”
“I totally agree. I'm really enjoying the series, and find all the nit-picking (especially pointing out 'plot holes' that aren't actually plot holes) quite tiresome.”
Yes, there's a difference between a genuine 'plot-hole' and a situation where something has simply not been shown on camera. There was a gap of a few seconds between Stamm returning to the car and then actually getting 'in real time' - enough time for either of them to put the nozzle back. Why waste screen time showing somebody returning a nozzle to the pump - we all know how its done!
Originally Posted by KarlHyde:
“Short documentary in English: "Life behind the Berlin Wall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8BojR2BEt8”
“Short documentary in English: "Life behind the Berlin Wall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8BojR2BEt8”
Thanks for that link,a most interesting film.
Originally Posted by MR. Macavity:
“Yes, there's a difference between a genuine 'plot-hole' and a situation where something has simply not been shown on camera. There was a gap of a few seconds between Stamm returning to the car and then actually getting 'in real time' - enough time for either of them to put the nozzle back. Why waste screen time showing somebody returning a nozzle to the pump - we all know how its done!”
“Yes, there's a difference between a genuine 'plot-hole' and a situation where something has simply not been shown on camera. There was a gap of a few seconds between Stamm returning to the car and then actually getting 'in real time' - enough time for either of them to put the nozzle back. Why waste screen time showing somebody returning a nozzle to the pump - we all know how its done!”
The general even had time to take off his jacket and hang it in the back of the car, so there was definitely a gap in time.
12 of 30
