Yep they are still going, very high end kit, you could easily spend £1,000 on one piece of their kit.

Tbh it's easy to spend over a grand with a lot of manufacturers on single items and not be anywhere near the very high end that exists. As suggested earlier in the thread, that's really about the level that music systems start to become 'hi-fi'.

Linn also provide a high-quality audio stream called Linn Radio at 320k, if you fancy some light music without ads or presentation interrupting the flow.

Btw the message about cabling seems to be consistent - chuck away the 7 strand connectors that come in the box and go up a level. Maplins don't sell the cheap & cheerful next step up these days neither do the big sheds, but it's not difficult to find something pretty good both electrically and mechanically for £20. And enough people have now suggested cooker (or now lighting) cable for it to be a recognised worthwhile alternative.

Well yes there's high end and hardly anyone can afford it end like an £80k Invictus turntable.

As good as the little CD/DAB/MP3 mini systems are for the money they're not even in the foothills of good stereo performance compared to separates.

About 6 months ago the FiL's old Aiwa micro system died. It had served him well for a good 25 years and he literally wore out the CD tray mech. It was expensive too, probably more in today's money than those £200-£300 micro systems in RS; I know because I bought it at trade when I worked in retail. We replaced it with a DM39 and some Q Acoustic 2010i's. That has proved to be a step up in performance but still not a patch on what a CD player and amp would be like in to the same speakers. The thing is though it's not possible to buy a separates system with CD, MP3, FM/DAB for anything like the price of these one-box systems. "You pays your money and takes your choice" as they say.

I was suggesting that a grand isn't a lot in hi-fi terms, and that ideally that's the sort of price point to start looking for a decent hi-fi. That's where the step-up is noticeable.

If you mean £1000 for the whole system I agree but not for each item.

No. I mean a grand each for source, amp and ideally a chunk more for speakers. All the systems I've heard have started to be good hi-fi from somewhere around that price point. You'll get a very good system for £1000, but the step up from good music system to a hi-fi involves spending that little bit more.

Post #2

Well as I said earlier in this thread I ditched my HiFi and did downsize to a Denon M40 with Acoustic Q2020i speakers.
I have arrived at that time in my life when chasing the HiFi dream seemed a bit stupid and the actual music was more important to me now and no matter what it's played on it still sounds good. Obviously there is a cut-off point especially at the low end but I can still enjoy a classical concert on the smallest of trannies etc. I am much relaxed now about the whole listening experience and hence that is why I ditched my separates altogether.

Fair enough. We obviously have different a view on what 'hi-fi' is.

My best advice would be to take yourself along to a good Hi-Fi dealer (not Currys or department store) seek their advice and have a listen but look to buy a secondhand system of good quality components. Apart from my speakers (Ruark) I have built my system through the years upgrading as I go. For example as a source get a good CD player, there are many good CD players costing a lot less than £300 add a DAC and you will notice a huge improvement. Within your budget you will be hard pressed to find something from Linn, Naim etc but you will find some very good secondhand deals on these products. As an example I paid £100 for my secondhand Marantz CD player but used it as the transport, I then found a Chord DAC 64 for £350, they retailed around £1000 at the time. My Michell monoblocks amps cost me £250, brand new they were £800, I picked up a secondhand Audiolab pre-amp for £200 (retail £600) My Ruark Prologues were £700 but I parted with my sabres for £200. I have since upgraded the pre-amp to a Tom Evans Vibe wich my friend sold to me for £600 and I am rather embarrased to say keeps climbing in the secondhand market, just a few weeks ago I saw one advertised secondhand for £1250. I am now just about to buy a Linn DS and rip my cd library to Flac and sell my Chord DAC 64. If I add my system up brand new it would cost £4,700 I paid £2000 although my speakers cost £700 new.

For a budget of £1000 you'll get a good system but spend £1000 on buying a secondhand system either from a good hi-fi dealer of from sites such as Hi-Fi Guy you will get yourself a great system.

I'd save up a bit more and go for what I have now, which is really nice but not extortionately priced.

Denon Amp (home cinema controller that also works for music, of course)
KEF speakers
WD NAS drive

All controlled through a WAP box into a Devolo Home Plug and through the house wiring, via my iPad Air 2, making full use of the brilliant Music Streamer app from Stratospherix.

Yes, audiophiles, I understand that adding other separates would increase quality, etc But while not 'old' I'm already past that age where human hearing loses the ability to differentiate certain frequencies. I still hear perfectly, but don't see the point in buying gear that literally makes no difference to me.

Using the above I can call up a vast collection of digitized sounds, many of them in FLAC format, and make up playlist on-the-fly. The other half and I are using this system two or three times a week, and having a fantastic time.

But, whatever you go for, I can recommend Super Fi most highly.If you find a store near to you, you can arrange to audition whatever components you like, and by so doing hear what sounds best to your ears.

Nothing wrong with streaming audio NB. When I demoed a few sets of speakers the dealer's audio sources were a mix of CD, and music selected via an iPad into a Naim streamer. The iPad only tells the streamer what files to play; it doesn't pass them through so has no effect on the quality.

If poss, listen before you buy but do the decent thing - if you've taken up a morning of the dealer's time listening to various combinations of gear and you do decide to buy, buy from him. He doesn't provide a demo room + numerous cups of coffee for fun, and he has to carry the stock that you just listened to.

I know that what I am now going to say may sound snotty or snobbish but is there much point in spending a lot for money unless you're going to listen that genre of music where nuances can be heard and appreciated?

For classical or related stuff perhaps but not noisy, heavy, synthesised or highly compressed pop music, taking only one example.
MP3 music is degraded by its compression isn't it? And have you ever heard Classic FM's output over a 'decent' system - it's ghastly with its Optimod treated output but OK for listening to it in the car environment, I suppose.

If you think that good Hi-Fi is just about frequency extension then you've missed the point of it completely.

I don't know if you've ever heard good stuff set up by someone who knows what they're doing, but the difference between even a modest set-up of good Hi-Fi gear and something based around an AV amp isn't too much different from hearing a bunch of musicians who can play together in time compared to some who can't.

Granted, some higher-end AV amps have improved in their ability to do music; I have what would have been a £600 Yamaha receiver that does okay compared to a decent secondhand Creek CS4040 which can be picked up for £60-£80 used. But I know that a better used NAD would show both of them a clean pair of heels.


It's good that you're both enjoying your music system. That's the objective at the end of the day. Sounds to me though that for you it's more about convenience rather than quality; a horses for courses thing.


Better still, go audition some dealers (yes, really) before buying anything.

IMO there's a huge difference between a salesman who is more interested in what's on special offer and how that affects their commission compared to a music enthusiast who has a job in a Hi-Fi shop. One just hopes you walk out of the door today with something under your arm. The other is interested in getting you the best experience from your music, and hopes they'll see you again and again in the future.

The ethos of the shop and the ability of the person you see to understand your needs and perhaps even educate a buyer a little bit is really crucial to getting maximum pleasure from that thing we call music.

Well that is a bad move isn't? All that expensive equipment ruined by using mains wiring in a way it was not designed for. Not to mention the interference it will cause to your neighbours.

http://www.elmac.co.uk/pdfs/whyPLTisbadforemc.pdf

More utter rubbish - give it a rest Winston.

Got to be second hand with a grand.
So much great value if you know where to look ...

This set up could have been had for under the thousand pound budget.
You'd need some speaker cable (decent stuff, you'd be bi-amping) and an interconnect.

You would also have the makings of a superb surround system if you added a few more speakers. But this set up is all about top notch 2 channel ..

Arcam AVR350 Cost £1500 new. Yes, it's a home cinema amp. But Arcam are all about audio. No whistles and bells. It's a superb piece of kit and excellent as a stereo amp. This one went for £180. That's 12% of it's original price. The used AVR market offers amazing value if you know what to buy. As you can use channels 6 and 7 to bi-amp, you will get the most of of these ...


PMC GB1 Again, cost one and a half grand when new. Sound fantastic. A Pair went for £512 here

As for a source, I'd go AV kit again. Arcam again. Could have gone with something like the Marantz CD63 KI Signature, or several excellent older machines.
But once again, an older piece of AV kit offers the best value ..

Arcam DV139 This was eighteen hundred quid. Not only will it display probably the best DVD picture you'll ever see (granted this is a music system, so consider this a bonus), it offers high end CD player performance. Sounds like a CD player costing a thousand pounds or more. It's not blu-ray etc, so they go for buttons. This one went for £250

So, that's proper sound quality. Top notch gear that cost the best part of £4000 new. And it's not that old. You'll still pay £175 for a KI sig. A 1990's Technics SU-A900 might set you back £250 or more.

It is NOT rubbish. It is well known and proven facts.

Agreed, stop making a fool of yourself Winston. No one now takes anything you say seriously.

No. The people making fools of themselves are those like yourself and Nigel who can't seem to understand proven facts in spite of the overwhelming evidence.

Just to add that you don't even need a CD or DVD player these days as a hifi source, there's Tidal HiFi streaming 16 bit flac, and Qobuz Sublime, streaming 16 and 24 bit flac and available as downloads. Pity that Qobuz still has most of its website material written in French!

Connect your PC to a decent DAC, amp and speakers as I have and you're away with unbeatable source quality. My Arcam DAC connects to the PC via a 24 bit/192KHz USB link and no source I can buy will beat that for quality, given the same music material. IMHO.

But as for £1,000, no... you need to spend more than that for a decent hifi system to play good quality classical material for example.